No one reigns and rules with Christ today

[WPM]

Famous last words of failed doctrine, prophecy, and arguments.

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

The only hate here, is small souls that hate correction.

Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.

I don't know anyone here that takes you seriously or would take correction from someone like you. You think so highly of yourself, talk such nonsense and spew out such venom. The Christian knows the dark source of all that.

 

[robert derrick]

Your understanding of what it means to reign is flawed. That's all there is to it. I backed up my belief with scripture. You....just spout a bunch of opinions without any scripture, which isn't going to convince anyone of anything.

Convince you of anything? Where did you ever get that idea?

I only enjoy learning the truth of prophecy more perfectly, by correcting your errors.

Believe me, the idea of 'convincing' you of anything, was gone long long ago.

You aren't trying still to convince me of something, are you? This is just a merry-go-round exercise. That's why I only respond if you add something new to the mix.

The rest is just old mantra to me.

I don't know anyone here that takes you seriously or would take correction from someone like you.

Read the above. It applies to you too.

You think so highly of yourself,

And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

The authority of Scripture, of course.

talk such nonsense and spew out such venom.

Venom to you is sweet truth to me.

"One man's trash, is another man's treasure."

 

[robert derrick]

Do you not believe that Christ will destroy His enemies when He returns? Is this passage in your Bible:

Do you have rule with Christ in your life today?

2 Thess 1:6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Can you show me where Paul taught here or anywhere else that Jesus would be reigning over His enemies on the earth after He returns rather than destroying them when He returns? How will any unbeliever who doesn't know God and obey the gospel survive His return?

What about what Jesus Himself taught?

35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

He taught here that a day is coming, the timing of which no one knows but the Father, when heaven and earth will pass away and where He will come and destroy all unbelievers just as the flood did in Noah's day. So, who exactly are these people you think He will rule over after He returns?

Seriously? Copy and paste? What is that, like a delay tactic with you? Flow chart strategy #3?

 

[WPM]

Convince you of anything? Where did you ever get that idea?

I only enjoy learning the truth of prophecy more perfectly, by correcting your errors.

Believe me, the idea of 'convincing' you of anything, was gone long long ago.

You aren't trying still to convince me of something, are you? This is just a merry-go-round exercise. That's why I only respond if you add something new to the mix.

The rest is just old mantra to me.

Read the above. It applies to you too.


And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

The authority of Scripture, of course.




Venom to you is sweet truth to me.

"One man's trash, is another man's treasure."

You are so full of venom. You really need to find peace in your life. Why are you so full of hate?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello, I would say there was a time for the flourishing of the good news unto the ends of the earth and there was very many saints and people whom held dear to the doctrine of Christ, which involved warning of his return in that age then. So the possibility of saints and rulers ruling wouldn’t be something to rule out, it is possible, such as Timothy going to Crete to teach elders to be in such a manner as so would be one day the return of Christ, he went encouraging those there, and others by Paul’s admonishment to continue going in the faith and to remember there past, Old Testament.

I believe that they would be those would would be at the last bit before the heaven and earth caved in and fell utterly to the ground, in 70Ad known as the temple and all the surrounding territories, and the nation of Israel was left in desolation.

That is how I would summarize my side of the topic.

 

[robert derrick]

You may not be, but that is more about you than anything else. Listen to what Paul teaches in Romans 8:16-17: "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Prophecy of the first resurrection.

We're not yet glorified.

we reign because He reigns.

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Prophecy of we shall reign with Him by the first resurrection, not before.

Yes, I am, and God's people are.

Only you. I'm not ruling my life alongside the Lord, nor are God's people.

And so, in order to keep your false prophecy, you are willing to declare that you are not yet dead and crucified with Christ.

So long as you are ruling as co-head and co-ruler with Jesus, then you still need to lose your life on your own cross.

There's nothing more to be argued about, with someone not yet given up their own rule of life to Jesus Christ.

You've declared yourself double-hearted in the faith, just to keep a false 'spirit-only' prophecy of your own.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[MatthewG]

Only you. I'm not ruling my life alongside the Lord, nor are God's people.


Sure you do @robert derrick. You have Christ within you due to faith and allow the spirit of Christ to work in manifesting his good deeds which were lead of the Father. You can be co-heirs with Christ to all the things spiritually, given and not materially. You are able to have the very spirit which God rose Christ up from the dead also living in you now, and you are part of the citizenship of the heavenly now, here and when you pass from here to there.

 

[robert derrick]

Only you. I'm not ruling my life alongside the Lord, nor are God's people.


Sure you do @robert derrick.

If you still have some rule in your life alongside of Jesus, then you still have some repenting to do.

Jesus is the only Head of the body, that we hold to. We are not co-heads with Him. Our Lord and God in this life, saving us by grace, does not accept any ruling on our own part.

You can be co-heirs with Christ to all the things spiritually, given and not materially.

Co-heirs is not co-headship. And we aren't reward with the inheritance of Christ, until at the resurrection of the dead.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Until then, we are sons with promise of God's inheritance reserved for us in heaven, if we endure temptation and live godly unto the end.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Receiving inheritance by man's birth may be unconditional, but God's everlasting inheritance is only by reward, for being faithful sons in this life.

As God's sons, we must ensure our reward of inheritance by doing well unto the end, and not doing evil against Him.

OSAS people can proclaim the gospel of unconditional salvation without works, but receiving the inheritance at the resurrection of the dead is by reward for godly works, not by faith alone.

You are able to have the very spirit which God rose Christ up from the dead also living in you now

True. Not only can, but must to become sons of God. (John 1)

, and you are part of the citizenship of the heavenly now

You're not in heaven now. Your doctrinal imagination is imaginative only.

, here and when you pass from here to there.

After the resurrection of the dead only. Only in the resurrection are we as the angels in heaven.

We pass from death in sins and trespasses, to fellowship in the Light now on earth. We are translated from the kingdom of darkness in sins, to the kingdom of the Son in righteousness now on earth.

No man on earth is passed from earth to heaven.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

You can think you're already in heaven and have inherited the everlasting kingdom of Christ, but your doctrine and feet have left solid grounding on earth.

That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

 

[MatthewG]

If you’re just gonna judge no need in your response @robert derrick . Thank you. You can be part of the kingdom while on earth. Also you have the spirit within you. And the spirit of Christ.

In Philippians 3:20, Paul lays down a principle that has been a great hope for each ensuing generation of believers: “Our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.” Peter puts this concept another way in his first letter, calling the Christians to whom he writes “sojourners and ...

Of course, they were waiting on the savior back then.

you done shared this scirpture

“And if, seeking to be declared righteous in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, [is] then Christ a ministrant of sin? let it not be! for if the things I threw down, these again I build up, a transgressor I set myself forth; for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh — in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness [be] through law — then Christ died in vain.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2‬:‭17‬-‭21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Galatians 2:20 with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh — in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himse | Young's Literal Translation 1898

with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh — in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himse

bible.com

Anyway to limit the ability to not be able to have access to our Father in heaven, and having the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ and all these things along with being part of the heavenly kingdom now and building our spiritual lives founded in the new administration under the King; there is founded peace with God because of Christ; being made right with God because of Faith.



To suggest people aren’t part of the Kingdom today is nonsense and not biblical.

 

[WPM]

Prophecy of the first resurrection.

We're not yet glorified.



And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Prophecy of we shall reign with Him by the first resurrection, not before.


Only you. I'm not ruling my life alongside the Lord, nor are God's people.

And so, in order to keep your false prophecy, you are willing to declare that you are not yet dead and crucified with Christ.

So long as you are ruling as co-head and co-ruler with Jesus, then you still need to lose your life on your own cross.

There's nothing more to be argued about, with someone not yet given up their own rule of life to Jesus Christ.

You've declared yourself double-hearted in the faith, just to keep a false 'spirit-only' prophecy of your own.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

He would actually let the Bible speak for itself instead of inventing your own theology you would realize that Jesus Christ alone is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in time.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in place.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in order.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in importance.

 

[robert derrick]

He would actually let the Bible speak for itself instead of inventing your own theology you would realize that Jesus Christ alone is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in time.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in place.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in order.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in importance.

Jesus' resurrection is of His old dead body. He is the first resurrected man ever. To take part in His bodily resurrection, must be bodily.

Someone claiming to have already taken part in His bodily resurrection, is saying their bodily resurrection is past.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Those believing they have taken part in Jesus' bodily resurrection, place themselves beyond judgement, so that ungodliness increases without condemnation.

All this spirit-only millennialism is just a feint for OSAS.

And anyone claiming to be ruling alongside Christ over their own lives, is not yet crucified with Christ on their own cross, that He may be the only Potentate and Head over our lives.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Convince you of anything? Where did you ever get that idea?

I said that you "just spout a bunch of opinions without any scripture, which isn't going to convince anyone of anything.". Is there something hard to understand about what I said? Do you think your opinions alone mean anything without scriptural support? They don't.

I only enjoy learning the truth of prophecy more perfectly, by correcting your errors.

LOL. You are incapable of correcting anyone. You need to have your own errors corrected first.

Believe me, the idea of 'convincing' you of anything, was gone long long ago.

I said you can't convince ANYONE of anything, not just me. Because you just spout nothing but nonsense without providing any scriptural support.

You aren't trying still to convince me of something, are you? This is just a merry-go-round exercise. That's why I only respond if you add something new to the mix.

I don't care if I convince you of anything. Any impartial lurker reading these threads can see that I back up my beliefs with scripture and you don't. I do this for them, not you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus' resurrection is of His old dead body. He is the first resurrected man ever. To take part in His bodily resurrection, must be bodily.

What scripture do you have to back this up? Look at this verse:

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

So, this indicates that having part in the first resurrection results in the second death not having power over someone. Does the second death have power over the souls of the dead in Christ that John saw? No. Their fate is sealed already. There is no chance of them experiencing the second death. So, based on what it says here in this verse, they have already had part in the first resurrection because that is a requirement for the second death to not have power over you.

What you're saying would indicate that the second death can have power over someone until they are bodily resurrected, but that is not the case for those who are in Christ now, including the souls of the dead in Christ that John saw. The second death has no power over them even now, yet they have not been bodily resurrected yet. So, that proves that your statement is wrong.

 

[robert derrick]

What scripture do you have to back this up?

Willful blindness to Scripture, that does not agree with your prophecy, does not obligate me to quote them to you.

What you're saying would indicate that the second death can have power over someone until they are bodily resurrected, but that is not the case for those who are in Christ now,

As I thought. Spirit-only millennialism is just a side-show for OSAS. You imagine you are already reigning with Christ, and so you imagine must always reign with Christ. OSAS says they can't stop being saved, and you say you can't stop reigning.

How about that for insight into folly.

No wonder you preach reigning and ruling in your life today. You are. It's just that Jesus is the One, that's not having any part in your resurrection and 'millennial reign'.

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no god beside me

The makers of pseudo-mil are just more Adam wanna-be gods on parade.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

 

[Randy Kluth]

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The obvious problem with claiming to 'reign and rule' with Christ today, is that it negates NT doctrine of losing all our rule and reigning on earth, even our own lives.

If we have any rule and reigning ourselves in this time of grace, then we're not yet crucified with Christ, and are still holding to our own 'part' headship in life.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

All this 'reigning and ruling' stuff of saints on earth, especially including heaven, is nothing but a bunch of self-angel worship, and claims of co-ruling with Jesus in our own lives.

Since we ought not be 'reiging and ruling' in our own lives, in some sort of co-Headship, how then can we possibly being doiing so over angels in heaven, and nations on earth?

There is no doctrine of Christ by the apostles, that ever speaks of Christians today 'reiging and ruleing' with Christ on earth, beinging with our own lives.

The only mention of ruling with Christ over the earth, (And never in heaven), is only prophetic at His second coming and resurrection from the dead.

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

These are all future prophecy of promise to the saints, that are blessed to be first resurrected from the dead in Jesus likeness. Nowhere does any doctrine of Christ speak of any of His saints on earth now 'reigning and ruling', not in our own lives, and certainly over the nations. We don't even have any reign nor rule over our own bodies but Christ the Lord over His own body and temple on earth.

Jesus is the only Head of His body and temple on earth. There are no co-heads in the body of Christ, but only members holding to the Head.

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

The only reigning in our lives at this time, when being saved by grace, is Christ, His righteousness, and His grace. Christians do not have any rule over anything in our lives, other than allowing Christ to do all the ruling and reigning over us, when we lose our life for His sake, that we might find His life ruling over us.

Now we are slaves and servants to our Master, Lord, and Christ Jesus. Then only after the resurrection unto life, we shall be judges and rulers with Him over the nations of the earth.

The main thrust of your post I agree with. The "triumphalism" sometimes found in the Faith Movement is wrong-headed, and will lead to disappointment and discouragement.

Do we have "power" with Christ in our lives? Certainly, but it is, as you say, a "crucified life." We are led by God in ways that are not really demonstrating victory over the enemy politically in many ways. Sometimes we, meaning Christians, are put to death by political leaders.

The term "kings and priests," as found in the promises made to Abraham had to do with Israel forming its own political unit, independent of other political powers. It was able to achieve this to some degree, although there were regular challenges to their power from outside of the country.

Ultimately Israel, like all nations, failed within, and its own political system came to an end. This, of course, doesn't mean that there was no political rule or cannot be any political rule. It just means that political rule fails in the same way man fails. All men sin, and all societies are infected by sin to the degree that the majority capitulates to its weaknesses.

So the promise God made to Abraham was fulfilled in Israel obtaining a long line of kings and a regular presence of priests. This was a fact of history, and it did endure a long time. But God's promises of eternal fulfillment, as you indicate, are a future reality, which I believe will still be fulfilled on this earth in the Millennium, after Christ returns.

I don't think the promise is saying that every individual believer is to be a king and a priest, but that we as individuals participate in the royalty and priesthood of Christ, when he takes hold of our life and we capitulate to him. Good subject--thanks.

 

[robert derrick]

If you’re just gonna judge no need in your response @robert derrick .

If you don't want righteous judgment, then don't bother me, because it's all you're going to get.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Thank you. You can be part of the kingdom while on earth.

Jesus' kingdom is not yet come on the earth to judge and rule all nations. For now, His kingdom is in heaven, and only dwelling in them that obey Him on earth.

Also you have the spirit within you. And the spirit of Christ.

The Spirit of Christ is only dwelling in them that walk after His Spirit, and not after the flesh. Christ is not supping in the lives of sinners.

But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

The only fellowship with Christ on earth, is with the saints walking in the Light, not while sinning in darkness with the devil.

It's sort of a basic principle of the Bible, that sinning is with the devil, and is enmity with God.

In Philippians 3:20, Paul lays down a principle that has been a great hope for each ensuing generation of believers: “Our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.”

For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

The manner of life of the saints walking after the Spirit, and not after the flesh, is from God in heaven, from whence we, that are still alive and remaining on earth, look for our Lord's return.

We're still right here on earth, and not in heaven in any way at all. The heavenly place we sit in, is with Jesus dwelling and supping with us in our purified hearts, right down here on earth in our mortal bodies.

Being now in heaven 'spiritually', is the delusion of a spirit-only resurrection and rule with God in heaven. There really is no such thing as carnal living on earth, while spiritually pure in heaven. The hippy-dippy stuff of doing evil, while the heart is still good, never was true. Not even as Woodstock.

We can vainly imagine we're already 'spiritually' resurrected into heaven's throne room now all we want, but if our body is still down here on earth sinning away, then we're still a child of the devil.

Spirit-only millennial doctrine, has nothing to do with the heavenly and holy rule of Jesus over our lives on earth.

Peter puts this concept another way in his first letter, calling the Christians to whom he writes “sojourners and ...

Yes, we are still pilgrims down here on earth. We are not sojourners in heaven. No Christian alive and remaining on earth, has yet to become the saints in Christ's presence in heaven, while their bodies are now dead in the grave.

There is no truth to a permanent spirit-only presence in heaven, while the body remains alive on earth.

That would qualify as a strong delusion sent to believers in OSAS only, who never ever speak of Peter's assurance of inheriting the kingdom of God. That's because it's not by imagination alone, but only by ensuring we never fall into temptation and sin on earth:

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

All this spirit-only doctrine and prophecy, is just a bunch of happy-feet vain imagination, animated out of thin air by faith-only sinners on earth.

And it's nowhere near as innocent as that animated movie.

Of course, they were waiting on the savior back then.

As well as His holy saints today, still living holy with holy feet planted squarely here on earth.

you done shared this scirpture

“And if, seeking to be declared righteous in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, [is] then Christ a ministrant of sin? let it not be! for if the things I threw down, these again I build up, a transgressor I set myself forth; for I through law, did die, that to God I may live; with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh — in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me and did give himself for me; I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness [be] through law — then Christ died in vain.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2‬:‭17‬-‭21‬ ‭

If you want to quote Scripture proving that Christians returning to sinning and found to be transgressors again, will not be found in Christ at His appearing, then that's fine. I just don't know why anyone would quote something they don't believe, and also exposes their hypocrisy.

But hey, anyone already resurrected and reigning in heaven, can do whatever they like on earth. At least until the grave.

Anyway to limit the ability to not be able to have access to our Father in heaven, and having the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ and all these things along with being part of the heavenly kingdom now

Well, that's what sinning down here on earth does to our souls.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Don't blame God, the devil, the prophets and apostles, nor anyone teaching Scripture saying so.

And for that matter, we can do as OSAS teaches and not even blame ourselves, and put all the condemnation on our bodies alone, for doing such things. It's our right of free-will given by God, to imagine and do with our souls as we please. At least until the grave.

and building our spiritual lives founded in the new administration under the King; there is founded peace with God because of Christ; being made right with God because of Faith.

True, for all them that do His righteousness and walk blamelessly as He walked on earth.

But those not even believing we can possibly do so, of course, have no such hope of ever doing so.

And for those imagining it in the spirit of their minds only, well, who can argue with vain imagination? It would be like trying to convince someone, who believes in lighted fairy-sprites in the night, that they're really just earthly fireflies.

To suggest people aren’t part of the Kingdom today is nonsense and not biblical.

Now there's certainly a way for 'believers' to have part with infidels, by teaching everyone one earth has been and is now saved, because the man Jesus died on a cross thousands of years ago.

I was never so foolish to try and believe that, but I once did try to imagine it without repentance. Afterall, if Hitler is in heaven, then so would I be.

Of course, that delusion on lasted for about a minute of my time. But someone actually trying to believe and even teach it from twisting Scripture?

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

That would be spirit-only lighted fairy-sprites resurrected into heaven, and now ruling in a fabled Celtic kingdom on earth.

There are still people who believe that today. Some even call themselves Christian wickens.

 

[MatthewG]

If you don't want righteous judgment, then don't bother me, because it's all you're going to get.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.


Jesus' kingdom is not yet come on the earth to judge and rule all nations. For now, His kingdom is in heaven, and only dwelling in them that obey Him on earth.


The Spirit of Christ is only dwelling in them that walk after His Spirit, and not after the flesh. Christ is not supping in the lives of sinners.

But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

The only fellowship with Christ on earth, is with the saints walking in the Light, not while sinning in darkness with the devil.

It's sort of a basic principle of the Bible, that sinning is with the devil, and is enmity with God.


For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

The manner of life of the saints walking after the Spirit, and not after the flesh, is from God in heaven, from whence we, that are still alive and remaining on earth, look for our Lord's return.

We're still right here on earth, and not in heaven in any way at all. The heavenly place we sit in, is with Jesus dwelling and supping with us in our purified hearts, right down here on earth in our mortal bodies.

Being now in heaven 'spiritually', is the delusion of a spirit-only resurrection and rule with God in heaven. There really is no such thing as carnal living on earth, while spiritually pure in heaven. The hippy-dippy stuff of doing evil, while the heart is still good, never was true. Not even as Woodstock.

We can vainly imagine we're already 'spiritually' resurrected into heaven's throne room now all we want, but if our body is still down here on earth sinning away, then we're still a child of the devil.

Spirit-only millennial doctrine, has nothing to do with the heavenly and holy rule of Jesus over our lives on earth.



Yes, we are still pilgrims down here on earth. We are not sojourners in heaven. No Christian alive and remaining on earth, has yet to become the saints in Christ's presence in heaven, while their bodies are now dead in the grave.

There is no truth to a permanent spirit-only presence in heaven, while the body remains alive on earth.

That would qualify as a strong delusion sent to believers in OSAS only, who never ever speak of Peter's assurance of inheriting the kingdom of God. That's because it's not by imagination alone, but only by ensuring we never fall into temptation and sin on earth:

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

All this spirit-only doctrine and prophecy, is just a bunch of happy-feet vain imagination, animated out of thin air by faith-only sinners on earth.

And it's nowhere near as innocent as that animated movie.


As well as His holy saints today, still living holy with holy feet planted squarely here on earth.





If you want to quote Scripture proving that Christians returning to sinning and found to be transgressors again, will not be found in Christ at His appearing, then that's fine. I just don't know why anyone would quote something they don't believe, and also exposes their hypocrisy.

But hey, anyone already resurrected and reigning in heaven, can do whatever they like on earth. At least until the grave.

Well, that's what sinning down here on earth does to our souls.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Don't blame God, the devil, the prophets and apostles, nor anyone teaching Scripture saying so.

And for that matter, we can do as OSAS teaches and not even blame ourselves, and put all the condemnation on our bodies alone, for doing such things. It's our right of free-will given by God, to imagine and do with our souls as we please. At least until the grave.


True, for all them that do His righteousness and walk blamelessly as He walked on earth.

But those not even believing we can possibly do so, of course, have no such hope of ever doing so.

And for those imagining it in the spirit of their minds only, well, who can argue with vain imagination? It would be like trying to convince someone, who believes in lighted fairy-sprites in the night, that they're really just earthly fireflies.


Now there's certainly a way for 'believers' to have part with infidels, by teaching everyone one earth has been and is now saved, because the man Jesus died on a cross thousands of years ago.

I was never so foolish to try and believe that, but I once did try to imagine it without repentance. Afterall, if Hitler is in heaven, then so would I be.

Of course, that delusion on lasted for about a minute of my time. But someone actually trying to believe and even teach it from twisting Scripture?

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

That would be spirit-only lighted fairy-sprites resurrected into heaven, and now ruling in a fabled Celtic kingdom on earth.

There are still people who believe that today. Some even call themselves Christian wickens.

You have no authority to judge anyway. You’re not God. Thank you for the responses, you may continue to freely to believe how you will, as I never have said that you can not believe that way to be saved by the Father in heaven.

 

[robert derrick]

The main thrust of your post I agree with. The "triumphalism" sometimes found in the Faith Movement is wrong-headed, and will lead to disappointment and discouragement.

Christians triumph in Christ 2 ways: first overcoming sin in our lives, and then overcoming death of the body by resurrection of dead as He was.

The first by grace is not with pride and superiority over others.

The second certainly is a superior resurrection over others condemned to shame and contempt.

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Do we have "power" with Christ in our lives? Certainly, but it is, as you say, a "crucified life." We are led by God in ways that are not really demonstrating victory over the enemy politically in many ways. Sometimes we, meaning Christians, are put to death by political leaders.

The term "kings and priests," as found in the promises made to Abraham had to do with Israel forming its own political unit, independent of other political powers. It was able to achieve this to some degree, although there were regular challenges to their power from outside of the country.

Good point. We are not kings and priests to God and His holy nation, but only after His return are we resurrected to rule over His nations with rods of iron.

Ultimately Israel, like all nations, failed within, and its own political system came to an end. This, of course, doesn't mean that there was no political rule or cannot be any political rule. It just means that political rule fails in the same way man fails.

True. The idea of 'reigning' over earth today is a spirit-only fantasy of self-centered, uncrucified idealists. They also prophecy the earth itself being born again into some kind of perfect utopia.

All men sin, and all societies are infected by sin to the degree that the majority capitulates to its weaknesses.

All sinners sin, not all saints.

So the promise God made to Abraham was fulfilled in Israel obtaining a long line of kings and a regular presence of priests. This was a fact of history, and it did endure a long time. But God's promises of eternal fulfillment, as you indicate, are a future reality, which I believe will still be fulfilled on this earth in the Millennium, after Christ returns.

Amen. Abraham has yet to be personally given the land He walked on earth.

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Nor has Job yet seen His redeemer and God standing on this earth, with his own eyes after the grave.

I don't think the promise is saying that every individual believer is to be a king and a priest, but that we as individuals participate in the royalty and priesthood of Christ, when he takes hold of our life and we capitulate to him. Good subject--thanks.

You too.

 

[robert derrick]

You have no authority to judge anyway.

Sure I do. I judge righteously according to the word of God. That's why I judge your kumbaya psycho-babble as what it is.

It's because you have no judgement, that you teach your own word rather than Scripture of God.

And if anyone actually believes you and practices your doctrine of continued sinning, then God will judge you for it in the last day.

You’re not God.

And neither am I the Word of God, as you think you are, by teaching your own word as that of God.

As I said, don't bother men unless you want to hear the truth with true judgment of God's word.

Many of you keep coming back like moths to the flame. You hate the truth, but obviously can't keep yourselves from coming back for me.

And the king said to him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou say nothing but the truth to me in the name of the LORD?

And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would not prophesy good unto me, but evil?

I could tell you that your world-class prophecy of all souls being saved in the end, will see you through the resurrection of the dead, but I won't.

People can doctrinailize and prophecy anything they want for themselves in this life, but it all ends in the grave, unless they repent first, while there's still time.

 

[MatthewG]

You still have no right to doctrinally say “who is saved or who is not” despite your differences. God knows who is his by faith or not. And I love you, and you can carry on the way you are going. God bless you.