Not faith alone?

[kcnalp]

To @kcnalp,
Do you believe that your being a Gentile means that you will not be judged by God, since you think that being a Gentile means you are not under the law?

I never said nor implied any such thing!

Being a Christian (the born again type) means that you will not come under condemnation (John 5:24 (kjv))...

Being a Gentile does not do that for you...it does not mean you are a Christian.

Jesus did not die for every Gentile and no Jew.

He died for both Jew and Gentile alike who would place their faith and trust in Him and what He did for them on the Cross.

Are you a Jew? If not, you're a Gentile.

 

[kcnalp]

Well hold fast onto Him giving God always the glory! Peace!

God bless!

 

[kcnalp]

Even Christians sin. The question is, does the Christian notice any difference at all in their life after Christ? If not, that person has to consider if they are truly in the faith or not, whoever that may be. No change means just that.......no change. The person who is unchanged is not saved.

Some here are saying Christians cannot sin, which is utterly ridiculous.

 

[kcnalp]

You mean the New Covenant that upholds the law?

Romans 3:31
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

If that's what you call 'preaching the law', then Paul preached the law.

Paul didn't preach the Law of Moses.
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

The way this works is when you walk according to the Spirit you do not violate the law of Moses. So you can use the law to learn what walking according to the Spirit looks like. Here's an example.....

Leviticus 19:11-18
11“ ‘Do not steal.

“ ‘Do not lie.

“ ‘Do not deceive one another.

12“ ‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

13“ ‘Do not defraud or rob your neighbor.

“ ‘Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight.

14“ ‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the Lord.

15“ ‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

16“ ‘Do not go about spreading slander among your people.

“ ‘Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.

17“ ‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.

18“ ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

This helps you discern what kinds of things the Spirit of God is going to be leading you into.

Why do you pick the parts of the Law you like? Why don't you preach all of it? You preach the Law so you MUST obey ALL of it.
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 (NKJV)
6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers,
7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth,
8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him;
9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.
10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies,

The Law you preach is not the Law of Moses!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Some here are saying Christians cannot sin, which is utterly ridiculous.

Several years ago I had long periods of time where I did not sin. And remember, temptation is not sin. But it is hard for me to think I could never sin. But I don't think I should project my own experience and expectations onto them. They are who they are in the Lord and me and you are who we are in the Lord. I've never had an illegal substance or porn addiction so I'm kind of ahead of the curve, but I'm definitely not sinless. But I'm definitely different. Way different. I am a new person.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul didn't preach the Law of Moses.
Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

See, you're adding a connotation to the phrase 'preach the law'. I'm not. In fact I don't even use that phrase. But I know what you mean when you use it. Paul did not preach justification by works of the law, but he did preach that justification by faith upholds the law. When you walk in the Spirit you do nothing that violates the law of Moses—Galatians 5:22-23
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

And so it is in that way that faith in Christ upholds and does not violate the law.

 

[kcnalp]

And so it is in that way that faith in Christ upholds and does not violate the law.

You keep the Law of Moses? En
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 (NKJV)
6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers,
7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth,
8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him;
9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.
10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies,

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Why do you pick the parts of the Law you like? Why don't you preach all of it? You preach the Law so you MUST obey ALL of it.
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 (NKJV)
6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers,
7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth,
8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him;
9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.
10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies,

The Law you preach is not the Law of Moses!

Faith in Christ upholds all the law. It does not violate any of it. Any requirement of the law is satisfied through the death and resurrection of Christ. The various required penalties prescribed by the law are satisfied in Christ. He is the death and separation from God and the community of God's people that the law demands for sin.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Law you preach is not the Law of Moses!

When you sin do you think that somehow the required penalty for your sin prescribed by the law does not get paid?

 

[kcnalp]

When you sin do you think that somehow the required penalty for your sin prescribed by the law does not get paid?

I trust that the Blood of Jesus washes away my sins. I don't worry about the Law of Moses.

 

[kcnalp]

Faith in Christ upholds all the law. It does not violate any of it. Any requirement of the law is satisfied through the death and resurrection of Christ. The various required penalties prescribed by the law are satisfied in Christ. He is the death and separation from God and the community of God's people that the law demands for sin.

If you preach the Law of Moses you MUST keep all of it. You don't.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Did you even read Rom 6:14
Romans 6:14 (NKJV)
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

If you are under the Law of Moses you MUST obey all of the Law. And you CAN'T!
Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Notice vs4—"you who attempt to be justified by law".

Paul is talking to the person who is trying to be justified by the law. The only way you can do that is to literally keep every part of it, and perfectly. That's the point he makes in the beginning of Romans. You have to keep the law in order to be justified by the law, and, well, no one keeps the law. So much for being justified by the law. This has nothing to do with faith upholding the law.

 

[kcnalp]

When you sin do you think that somehow the required penalty for your sin prescribed by the law does not get paid?

My sins are paid for by the Blood of Jesus, that is, the Blood of the New Covenant, not the Law of Moses.
Matthew 26:28 (NKJV)
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[kcnalp]

Notice vs4—"you who attempt to be justified by law".

Paul is talking to the person who is trying to be justified by the law. The only way you can do that is to literally keep every part of it, and perfectly. That's the point he makes in the beginning of Romans. You have to keep the law in order to be justified by the law, and, well, no one keeps the law. So much for being justified by the law. This has nothing to do with faith upholding the law.

You're preaching the Law of Moses. You MUST obey ALL of it! You don't!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I trust that the Blood of Jesus washes away my sins. I don't worry about the Law of Moses.

You should only worry about the law of Moses to the extent that it helps us discern what ways the Spirit of God within us will compel us to behave. But the focus is on being a person who does not hurt other people. In other words our focus is on how to love other people around us, even helping them when the opportunity arises.

Romans 13:10
10Love does no harm to a neighbor.

The law can offer useful instruction on specific ways and examples on how to give a crap about the people around us and to adapt our behavior accordingly. It's not about having the goal of keeping a list of rules. It's about having the goal of not hurting other people and helping them when you can. When you do that the list of rules gets satisfied.

 

[kcnalp]

You should only worry about the law of Moses to the extent that it helps us discern what ways the Spirit of God within us will compel us to behave. But the focus is on being a person who does not hurt other people. In other words our focus is on how to love other people around us, even helping them when the opportunity arises.

Romans 13:10
10Love does no harm to a neighbor.

The law can offer useful instruction on specific ways and examples on how to give a crap about the people around us and to adapt our behavior accordingly.

Like executing those who work in weekends?

It's not about having the goal of keeping a list of rules. It's about having the goal of not hurting other people and helping them when you can. When you do that the list of rules gets satisfied.

Are you preaching the Law of Moses to Christians? Are you a Jew? Or do you believe in Jesus?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You're preaching the Law of Moses. You MUST obey ALL of it! You don't!

I know this is going to be a hard nut to crack because of the profound corruption of church teaching these days. You just have to understand that the prohibition against the law is not that you satisfy it's righteous requirements but that you do not seek to satisfy the requirements of the law in order to make yourself righteous before God and earn a declaration of righteousness from him that way. I know this won't sink in very easily because the church has been teaching that any and all law keeping is forbidden. The only law keeping that is forbidden is keeping the law with the goal of trying to show God you're a righteous person and deserve salvation because of that.

 

[kcnalp]

I know this is going to be a hard nut to crack because of the profound corruption of church teaching these days. You just have to understand that the prohibition against the law is not that you satisfy it's righteous requirements but that you do not seek to satisfy the requirements of the law in order to make yourself righteous before God and earn a declaration of righteousness from him that way. I know this won't sink in very easily because the church has been teaching that any and all law keeping is forbidden. The only law keeping that is forbidden is keeping the law with the goal of trying to show God you're a righteous person and deserve salvation because of that.

I strongly suggest you stick with the NT that Jesus gave us by His Blood. Christian are not under the Law of Moses, period!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Are you preaching the Law of Moses to Christians? Are you a Jew? Or do you believe in Jesus?

I'm confident that you are defining 'preaching the law of Moses' as 'keeping the law of Moses in order to earn God's declaration of righteousness'. I'm not doing that. That's a joke. Any honest person who has tried to do that knows that is IMPOSSIBLE. You won't make it to the end of the day trying to do that. But if you mean 'preaching the law of Moses' as in 'the law of Moses is what gets upheld when you believe in Christ and walk in the Spirit' then, yes, I'm doing that. But I don't call that 'preaching the law of Moses' because that already has the connotation of trying to earn salvation by doing the works of the law. That I in no way teach.

 

[kcnalp]

I'm confident that you are defining 'preaching the law of Moses' as 'keeping the law of Moses in order to earn God's declaration of righteousness'. I'm not doing that. That's a joke. Any honest person who has tried to do that knows that is IMPOSSIBLE. You won't it to the end of the day trying to do that. But if you mean 'preaching the law of Moses' as in 'the law of Moses is what gets upheld when you believe in Christ and walk in the Spirit' then, yes, I'm doing that. But I don't call that 'preaching the law of Moses' because that already has the connotation of trying to earn salvation by doing the works of the law. That I in no way teach.

Stick with the NT if you don't want to burn in Hell.