Not faith alone?

[justbyfaith]

Where does the Bible say Infant baptism is invalid?

Mark 16:16....unless an infant can believe on the Lord Jesus Christ having heard the gospel and believed in its major tenets adequately enough to produce saving faith.

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Christ founded the one true church on Peter and the apostles and their successors Matt 16:18 18:18 28:19

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the age, so the successors must remain until the end of the age) matt 28:19

Visible

Jn 9:5
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Matt 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
(The apostles)
——————

Only Peter and the apostles and their successors have the teaching authority of Christ with the guarantee of the Holy Spirit! Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 Acts 2

Jesus said, “ Follow Paul”.......Jesus said Of Paul,”He is my Chosen Vessel”....... Peter had been a Christian for years , a Leader in the Church, yet he was still making Huge Blunders , long after Jesus went back To Heaven— like when he was being a Sinful Hypocrite and had to be “ called out” by Paul , because he would not eat with Gentiles when visiting Jews were around .......Peter himself testified that Paul’s writing were Scriptural —- even though for him, “ they were hard to understand....Peter knew who the wiser teacher was.....and in NO WAY is this a means as an insult to Peter .....After all, it was Peter that walked on water, not Paul.....Both were great men of Faith — and the Glory goes to God in regard to BOTH of them....

 

[justbyfaith]

@Blood Bought 1953,

Nobody "has" to sin....but we do...

If we don't have to sin, and, according to even your teaching, if we are born again we no longer want to sin, how is it that anyone who is born again sins?

Don't want to + don't have to = no sinning from my perspective.

What do you say?


I say the same thing that Jesus did.....” If you even THINK about having sex with somebody , you are as guilty as an Adulterer .....How is “ YOUR” Thought Life Doing?
Even if you “DO” EVERYTHING, you STILL have Sin problems.....how many Strangers did you invite into your home today to Feed and Clothe? That’s what I thought.....Those are called “ Sins Of OMISSION and you have failed utterly in that department —- even more than the other Department......
You need to “ give it up” and start Trusting in God’s Grace——THAT is God’s Way to handle sin

We don’t HAVE to Sin and we should not even “want” to, but we are Human and we are going to mess up many times in our Christian Walk—-we are not sinners because we sin.....we Sin because we are Sinners.
Sinning in the Life Of a Christian should diminish as God does HIS WORK of Transforming us into the Image Of His Son.....But The last bits of the “ Old Man” is going to be hanging around us at least until the Day we make it HOME...

So, are you saying that we have to sin because sin is defined by what is in the heart rather than what is on the outside? All this teaching about Jesus cleansing the inside of the cup and platter...however I don't think that you really believe that He is able to do that.

I trust that God's grace is able to change me from the inside out (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv))...

If we don't have to sin and we also don't want to sin, then what factor causes us to sin? Because you say that we don't have to sin and that as born again believers, neither do we want to; but that nevertheless we will sin...

My question to you is why would anyone sin if they don't have to and also don't want to sin? What factor remains as a factor that compels us to sin if those two factors have been dealt with?

If the old man is the factor, then what about the old man is the factor that causes us to sin? That we still want to sin or that we still have to because of the old man? Is there another factor that I am missing?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I will show you that you are teaching that grace is a license to sin.

Hebrews 10
26If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

According to the passage does grace give you a license to trample on grace by deliberately sinning?

Your on- going false “ take” on Hebrews 10 has practically shipwrecked your entire Christian Doctrine....I hope Newbies to the Faith will listen to somebody that actually understands what these “scary” verses mean.......”text without context is error”.......99% of the time , Heb 10 is taken completely out of context .....even a Child could understand what the “ Willfull Sin” is in this verse if you get the Mud out of your ears.....

Please Google The Following—— You Tube Andrew Farley Hebrews 6

You will sleep better......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You are not accountable for sins you are not aware of.

Then why did God institute sacrifices for “ Sins Of Ignorance” in the Old Covenant?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

But you have been saying grace covers purposely sinning, not just stumbling. Is purposely sinning making grace a license to sin? If not, why not?

“ Purposely Sinning” is purposely sinning —-Nothing more, Nothing less.It is Sinning knowingly . You do it practically every day. Me too. It’s Covered by the Blood. “Where Sin ABOUNDS, Grace SUPER Abounds” . Sorry if that gets your panties in a twist.....BB did not say that.....God Did.....take it up with Him ....
I know I will be Chastised if I “ Willfully Sin”. Because I do sin in that manner, because I am sometimes weak and sometimes Foolish, does not mean that I am using Grace as a License .The Fool That does that would Sin with glee , thinking it does not matter if he sins or not, because he thinks he can Sin and “ get away with it” . His ATTITUDE would be, “ Hey , look what I can do now because of Grace ! My Sins are Forgiven! I can “ get away” with ANYTHING Now!”
As Christians, we have been given NEW HEARTS .....Hearts that want to PLEASE GOD — NOT hearts that say , “ Head for the hills,Ma Barker—- I’m gonna go out now and Sin up a Storm!” Lacking That “New Heart” ( The Holy Spirit ) we are “ None Of His” anyway....Sin or the Lack Of it , be it “ willfull” or not is really a “Moot Point” if that is your Condition....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

He's repeating what the Corinthians said (it's a quote of a famous philosopher, I think). Then he rebuts it. "All things are lawful" is in direct contradiction to what Paul said in other places and what the Bible says. Deal with it! Did you just decide to ignore the verse I posted that makes it impossible that God was inspiring Paul to teach the church that "all things are lawful"?

1 John 3:4 Deal with it!

I can’t really explain it——- I am just throwing it out there....Jesus said it, through Paul....take it up with them.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The Catholic church is a denomination.

A “ Denomination” wherein Everyone That adheres to its Doctrines are “Fallen From Grace”.....Why? If your answer is “ because they Add to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus NOTHING “ with 7 “Hoops” one must jump through to Get Saved and Stay Saved ( infant baptism, the taking of the Sacraments, etc) , you would be Correct......I am not engaging in “ Catholic Bashing” —— I love Catholic people, it’s their Doctrine I hate .....90% of Protestant Churches are no better.. are also “Fallen From Grace” .....Read Galatians and tell me that I am wrong......
A “ mystery” remains—— does “ Fallen From Grace “ mean that one is damned if they find themselves Adding to the Gospel ? Many wise Bible Teachers say so.....I don’t know .....let’s hope not !
One important thing is “ NOT” a Mystery—- if you TEACH that the Gospel is “Necessary” But not “ Adequate” for Salvation you are “ ACCURSED”..... damned by God Forever . Do you teach “ Jesus Saves— B U T? “....... if so, you are in EXTREME Jeopardy! You had Better wake up if that is indeed even possible....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

- if you TEACH that the Gospel is “Necessary” But not “ Adequate” for Salvation you are “ ACCURSED”..... damned by God Forever . Do you teach “ Jesus Saves— B U T? “.....

I don't teach that. What I say is you can tell if you have the necessary and adequate gospel for salvation by if you are a new creation in Christ who doesn't purposely sin anymore. Purposely sinning is the attribute of the unbeliever. Is the 'Christian' who purposely sins fallen from grace, or was he never saved to begin with? What does it matter? They are heading for the lake of fire either way if they don't repent and get saved. That's why we need to be focusing on how Christians are to live and continue in their faith instead of focusing on if the fallen person lost their salvation or was never saved to begin with.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...90% of Protestant Churches are no better.. are also “Fallen From Grace” .....Read Galatians and tell me that I am wrong......

I think that number is way too high. I'd say 5% or less of Protestant churches have an official doctrine that says works earn salvation. Now in the rest of the Protestant churches I would say they are populated by many, many unsaved people who are trying to earn their salvation by having things like faithful church attendance, tithing, having correct theology, participating in accurate worship services, ministries, etc. to their credit. Trying to earn your salvation that way is an attribute of an unsaved person, not a saved person. They're not trying to earn their salvation through godly character traits. They can't do that because they are unsaved. They can only do the outside of the cup things that the Pharisees majored in. Inside they are still full of greed and lust, but on the outside they are outstanding church attendees and are sure they are worshipping God in the proper and approved way.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I can’t really explain it——- I am just throwing it out there....Jesus said it, through Paul....take it up with them.....

It's quite simple to me. I don't think Paul is saying murder and theft and adultery are now lawful for Christians. To me that's not even a consideration worth delving into. The reasonable answer is he's quoting the Corinthians rationalization for sinning (now that they are under grace) back to them and then telling them how stupid that is for the simple fact that not all things benefit them. Reminds me of Romans 6:21

21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Then why did God institute sacrifices for “ Sins Of Ignorance” in the Old Covenant?

That's how we know God doesn't hold sins we're not aware of against us! That sin is covered by sacrifice. But their is no sacrifice for willful, defiant sin.......

Numbers 15:30-31
30“ ‘But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or foreigner, blasphemes the Lord and must be cut off from the people of Israel. 31Because they have despised the Lord’s word and broken his commands, they must surely be cut off; their guilt remains on them.’ ”

That's what Hebrews 10:26 is referring to.......

Hebrews 10:26-27
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ Purposely Sinning” is purposely sinning —-Nothing more, Nothing less.It is Sinning knowingly . You do it practically every day.

Not me, friend. I don't do that. When I sin (everyday) it's usually because my guard is down and I'm reacting without thinking. But even now after all these years of training from God that's not very often anymore. Other reasons I sin are laziness, ignorance, lack of insight into a situation. FEAR AND INSECURITY.......those are big ones. But willfully, purposely chasing after sin just isn't on my radar. That's the trait of the unbeliever who has yet to have his mind set on the things of the Spirit in a transformation by the Spirit of God. That's not the trait of a new creation in Christ. Romans 8 talks about this. Romans 8 is the answer to the failure of the works-centric 'believer' (really an unbeliever) of Romans 7.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Your on- going false “ take” on Hebrews 10 has practically shipwrecked your entire Christian Doctrine....I hope Newbies to the Faith will listen to somebody that actually understands what these “scary” verses mean.......”text without context is error”.......99% of the time , Heb 10 is taken completely out of context .....even a Child could understand what the “ Willfull Sin” is in this verse if you get the Mud out of your ears.....

Please Google The Following—— You Tube Andrew Farley Hebrews 6

You will sleep better......

Andrew Farley is an uninformed, uneducated teacher. All you have to do is read these passages for yourself and see his explanation is impossible to derive from those verses. There is no sacrifice that covers willfully, purposely chasing after sin. Continue on that path and you will end up in the lake of fire. That is what newbies need to hear. The church is deceiving newbies into thinking they can purposely remain as they are and as long as they 'believe in Christ' they are saved. They do not know that if they really believed in Christ they'd have the spiritual mind that seeks and chases after the things of the Spirit, not seeks and chases after the things of the flesh.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Your on- going false “ take” on Hebrews 10 has practically shipwrecked your entire Christian Doctrine....I hope Newbies to the Faith will listen to somebody that actually understands what these “scary” verses mean.......”text without context is error”.......99% of the time , Heb 10 is taken completely out of context .....even a Child could understand what the “ Willfull Sin” is in this verse if you get the Mud out of your ears.....

Please Google The Following—— You Tube Andrew Farley Hebrews 6

You will sleep better......

Now, address my question I asked and don't divert. What does Hebrews 10:26-31 say is the penalty for purposely and willfully abusing God's grace? Is the believing Christian exempt from that penalty? Does he have a license to purposely abuse the grace of God and get away with it and not go to the lake of fire for doing that? You've been claiming that you are not saying Christians have a license to sin. But it's obvious you have been saying that very thing.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I think that number is way too high. I'd say 5% or less of Protestant churches have an official doctrine that says works earn salvation. Now in the rest of the Protestant churches I would say they are populated by many, many unsaved people who are trying to earn their salvation by having things like faithful church attendance, tithing, having correct theology, participating in accurate worship services, ministries, etc. to their credit. Trying to earn your salvation that way is an attribute of an unsaved person, not a saved person. They're not trying to earn their salvation through godly character traits. They can't do that because they are unsaved. They can only do the outside of the cup things that the Pharisees majored in. Inside they are still full of greed and lust, but on the outside they are outstanding church attendees and are sure they are worshipping God in the proper and approved way.

Practically everyone I know and have ever spoken to is believing in a False Gospel Of Works.You can see it in this Forum Site and every other Forum site out there.They take various forms .The most prevalent one would be “ Jesus Saves—- but ya gotta Repent Of all of your sins before you die if you wanna STAY Saved.....
Another one would be “Jesus Saves—- But you gotta “ confess” all of your sins , lest one Be Forgotten and you find yourself going to Hell
Another would be one where you Must keep the Commandments , or at “ least” the First Ten because did not Jesus himself say, “ if you love me , you will keep my commandments”....
Another would be “ Jesus Saves” , But once you know “ that” you must live a life of “ Sinless Perfection” and that is to be Expected seeing as to how now you have the Holy Spirit in you......
Many churches say that Jesus of course Shed His Blood for your Sins —- your “ PAST” Sins! After “ That” it is up to you make yourself Worthy Of Heaven By “ being good enough”
These all sound good....they “tickle the ears” of all of those who insist on playing a part in their Salvation , essentially being the Co- Savior Of their Salvation. People insist on “Trying” to be Saved instead of “ TRUSTING “ to be Saved .....They fail to understand the Gospel that might Save you is NOT what man does for God——- it is what GOD has done for man.He wants ALL the Glory , and He will Receive ALL of that Glory.If you fail to understand why that is true, you will see that you are in the wrong Place, but never fear——- God’s gonna Judge you by Paul’s Gospel and He will ascertain as to whether or not you were Obedient to That Gospel and RESTED in it —— or tried to Add to it.....

 

[theefaith]

Where does

Mark 16:16....unless an infant can believe on the Lord Jesus Christ having heard the gospel and believed in its major tenets adequately enough to produce saving faith.

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

If something is not possible then it’s not required, besides this the parents and god parents have faith on the infants behalf and make a promise to raise the child in the faith, then when the child comes of age he is confirmed in the faith

Nowhere does the Bible say don’t baptize infants

Jesus said let the little children come to me!

acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And to your CHILDREN!

Acts 16:15 whole household baptized! It does NOT say except infants!!!

 

[theefaith]

Jesus said, “ Follow Paul”.......Jesus said Of Paul,”He is my Chosen Vessel”....... Peter had been a Christian for years , a Leader in the Church, yet he was still making Huge Blunders , long after Jesus went back To Heaven— like when he was being a Sinful Hypocrite and had to be “ called out” by Paul , because he would not eat with Gentiles when visiting Jews were around .......Peter himself testified that Paul’s writing were Scriptural —- even though for him, “ they were hard to understand....Peter knew who the wiser teacher was.....and in NO WAY is this a means as an insult to Peter .....After all, it was Peter that walked on water, not Paul.....Both were great men of Faith — and the Glory goes to God in regard to BOTH of them....

All apostles and their successors have authority, they are not impeccable, and the successors of Peter are only infallible in matters of faith and morals when speaking with apostolic authority to the universal church not in matters of discipline

Peter is the head of the church on earth
Administering the king in Christ’s place until He returns

Matt 10:2
First apostle Peter:

Matt 17:27
Jesus and Peter are one:
Jesus even works a miracle to make this point. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: and the power to bind and loose:

Mt 17:27
Peter commanded to confirm his breathren:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Matt 10:2
Peter is the prince of the apostles, head of the universal church on earth!

Jn 20:21-23
Peter and the apostles receive the Holy Spirit and the power to forgive sins:

Acts 1:15 1:17 1:26
Peter declares Judas office of apostle valid and vacant and chooses a successor:

Acts 2:14
Peter preaches the first sermon on Pentecost:

Acts 2:38
Peter requires baptism as the outward sign and initiation into the new covenant!

Acts 5 authority of the apostles verified by them being stricken dead by God verifying Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven and the apostles have the light of the Holy Spirit!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Where does

If something is not possible then it’s not required, besides this the parents and god parents have faith on the infants behalf and make a promise to raise the child in the faith, then when the child comes of age he is confirmed in the faith

Nowhere does the Bible say don’t baptize infants

Jesus said let the little children come to me!

acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And to your CHILDREN!

Acts 16:15 whole household baptized! It does NOT say except infants!!!

I don't know how a baby makes "a pledge of a good conscience toward God" in water baptism. And it's impossible for someone to make that pledge for you. My infant baptism did not relieve me of the responsibility to obey the Lord in water baptism and make a pledge of a good conscience after I believed in God as an adult. My infant baptism counted for nothing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Practically everyone I know and have ever spoken to is believing in a False Gospel Of Works.

If you're hanging out in Methodist, and Presbyterian type churches, then yes you are probably encountering lots of unsaved works-centric people in the church of the kind I described in a previous post......

Now in the rest of the Protestant churches I would say they are populated by many, many unsaved people who are trying to earn their salvation by having things like faithful church attendance, tithing, having correct theology, participating in accurate worship services, ministries, etc. to their credit.
......
They can only do the outside of the cup things that the Pharisees majored in. Inside they are still full of greed and lust, but on the outside they are outstanding church attendees and are sure they are worshipping God in the proper and approved way.

But if you hang around groups formed and led and attended by born again people you will find very few people among them who think doing right things earns them salvation. They're born again. That's how they know salvation is not given as wages owed for performing works. If they believed that they would not be born again......cause you can't be born again that way. Think about it.