Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

[Soyeong]

@Phoneman777 @Brakelite @ewq1938 @Hobie @Big Boy Johnson @BarneyFife @The Learner

What @Soyeong and 'law keepers' are attempting here by elevating the law of Moses above the Law of MESSIAH is in fact lawlessness and the penalty is death and eternal separation from God = Exodus 31:12-17

I have not placed the Law of Moses above the Law of Messiah, but rather the Messiah spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example, so I see no justification for thinking that the Law of Messiah is something other than or contrary to what he taught. The same God who gave the Law of Moses also sent Jesus in fulfillment of the promise to turn us from our wicked in disobedience to it (Acts 3:25-26), so there is no disagreement.

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.

You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you.
Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it,
that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

The Sabbath is a sign that there is a God who created the world in six days, who rested on the seventh, who sanctified it, who sanctifies us, and who saves His people out of bondage, so those who believe in the truth of the things that the Sabbath is a sign of will keep the 7th day holy while those who deny the truth of those things will not.

No one who is uncircumcised in heart can enter the Kingdom of God. = Romans chapter 2

"In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God’s law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God’s law but don’t obey it."

Indeed, those with uncircumcised hearts will not enter the Kingdom of God, which is why we need to obey the Mosaic Law because that is the way to tell that someone has a circumcised heart (Romans 2:25, Deuteronomy 30:6).

When a person seeks salvation thru the works of the law it only produces death = 1 Cor 15:56
"The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law."

Are you ready to have your spiritual eyes open to Truth and invite the Anointed Eternal High Priest to circumcise your heart?

I have not suggested that we can earn our salvation as the result of obeying works of the law, but rather I have been speaking in favor of obeying the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law is not sinful, but leads us away from sin (Romans 7:7), so it is not the strength of sin, but rather it is the law of sin that is the strength of sin. If you don’t bother to distinguish which law Paul is referring to, then you are guaranteed to misunderstand him.

 

[St. SteVen]

@St. SteVen says: "I don't see anyone promoting that. A moot point?"

Right, you are not seeing that.........start with posts from @Soyeong, which are the posts i am addressing as well as the WHOLE Truth of the Law that God gave to Moses, specifically = Exodus 31:12-17



lol - your second 'oops' = letting man decide what God has spoken = (remember cessation of gifts?)

However, there is One Man who you should listen to for the correct understanding of His Law =
the LORD Jesus Christ and His Gospel
AND
the letters of the Apostles Peter, Paul and John who also have the correct understanding.

You must FIRST see from the Gospel or you can come to a erroneous conclusion on the Sabbath Rest of God.

What does Exodus 31:12-17 demand and did MESSIAH do away with that Most Holy Commandment???

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

I think I was assuming that you were NOT a seventh day Sabbatarian.
Now I have NO IDEA where you stand.

/

 

[David in NJ]

I think I was assuming that you were NOT a seventh day Sabbatarian.
Now I have NO IDEA where you stand.

/

i have been Redeemed by the precious Blood of the 7th Day of Rest that God established since the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:8 - "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Therefore, i am a Completed 7th Day Sabbatarian that the LORD Himself came to earth to Fulfill on our behalf.

The LORD Jesus Christ said that whoever fails to cease from his works, just as God did from His, will suffer eternal Death.

Can you find where HE said this in the GOSPEL?

 

[David in NJ]

I have not placed the Law of Moses above the Law of Messiah, but rather the Messiah spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example, so I see no justification for thinking that the Law of Messiah is something other than or contrary to what he taught. The same God who gave the Law of Moses also sent Jesus in fulfillment of the promise to turn us from our wicked in disobedience to it (Acts 3:25-26), so there is no disagreement.


The Sabbath is a sign that there is a God who created the world in six days, who rested on the seventh, who sanctified it, who sanctifies us, and who saves His people out of bondage, so those who believe in the truth of the things that the Sabbath is a sign of will keep the 7th day holy while those who deny the truth of those things will not.


Indeed, those with uncircumcised hearts will not enter the Kingdom of God, which is why we need to obey the Mosaic Law because that is the way to tell that someone has a circumcised heart (Romans 2:25, Deuteronomy 30:6).


I have not suggested that we can earn our salvation as the result of obeying works of the law, but rather I have been speaking in favor of obeying the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law is not sinful, but leads us away from sin (Romans 7:7), so it is not the strength of sin, but rather it is the law of sin that is the strength of sin. If you don’t bother to distinguish which law Paul is referring to, then you are guaranteed to misunderstand him.

I have not suggested that we can earn our salvation as the result of obeying works of the law, but rather I have been speaking in favor of obeying the Mosaic Law.

This is known as 'double speak' = combining two opposing truths as if they are the same.

The Mosaic Law is not sinful, but leads us away from sin

The Mosiac law is NOT sinful = AGREE = but if you try and please God thru it you will COMMIT SIN.

BELIEVE these words from Romans ch7


Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good

Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

 

[St. SteVen]

Therefore, i am a Completed 7th Day Sabbatarian that the LORD Himself came to earth to Fulfill on our behalf.

Earlier you quoted one of these. (Exodus 31) which says that
the Sabbath is a sign between God and the Israelites alone.

Ezekiel 20:12 NIV
Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us,
so they would know that I the Lord made them holy.

Exodus 31:13 NIV
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths.
This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come,
so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

/

 

[David in NJ]

Earlier you quoted one of these. (Exodus 31) which says that
the Sabbath is a sign between God and the Israelites alone.

Ezekiel 20:12 NIV
Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us,
so they would know that I the Lord made them holy.

Exodus 31:13 NIV
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths.
This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come,
so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

/

Who was the Messiah born thru = Israel/a virgin/Tribe of Judah = as foretold by the Prophets

What did the Jewish MESSIAH come to accomplish? = Matthew 5:17

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees,
you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

The LORD fulfilled Exodus 31:12-17 = for if HE did not, then HE would of committed sin and died in vain.

Where did the LORD declare that HE fufilled Exodus 31:12-17
AND
that if anyone violates His Fulfillment of Exodus 31:12-17, they will receive the SAME punishment...........it is in the Gospel.

 

[St. SteVen]

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. ...

That is referring to the BOOKS of the Law or the BOOKS of the Prophets.
Not the law itself. Jesus explained this after his resurrection.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

/

 

[David in NJ]

That is referring to the BOOKS of the Law or the BOOKS of the Prophets.
Not the law itself. Jesus explained this after his resurrection.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

/

Thank you for verifying the very point of what i am posting.

Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Exactly to a 'T' as stated in my posts including Exodus 31:12-17

Where did the LORD declare that HE fufilled Exodus 31:12-17
AND
that if anyone violates His Fulfillment of Exodus 31:12-17, they will receive the SAME punishment...........it is in the Gospel.

Without the fulfillment of Exodus 31:12-17 you have no Gospel and no Salvation.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees,
you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello

This is my paraphrase oof Exodus 31:12-17: -

Exodus 31:12-17: - The Sabbath Law
12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your ages, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it will die the second death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall die the second death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their ages as a covenant for a prolonged period, {which ends at the vanishing point in time}. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for all time; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.'"

It is a little different from the traditional POV.

If you ignore the Sabbath Law, then you are sinning, and should be put out from among the congregation and will suffer the consequences of the second death at the time of judgement.

Should we rest for one day after working the first six days of the week? The answer is yes, we should rest as the Lord commanded us to.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thank you for verifying the very point of what i am posting.

I still have no idea where you are coming from. (or going to)

For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees,
you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

So you are promoting a works religion? Claiming we can be saved by the works of the law?

Galatians 2:16 NIV
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law,
but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus
that we may be justified by faith in[a] Christ and not by the works of the law,
because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

/

 

[David in NJ]

I still have no idea where you are coming from. (or going to)


So you are promoting a works religion? Claiming we can be saved by the works of the law?

Galatians 2:16 NIV
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law,
but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus
that we may be justified by faith in[a] Christ and not by the works of the law,
because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

/

i am opposing works religion, salvation by the law AND so is God = Exodus 31:12-17

Genesis 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

John 5:7-17
The sick man answered Him, “Sir, I have no man to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; but while I am coming, another steps down before me.”
Jesus said to him, “Rise, take up your bed and walk.” And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked.

And that day was the Sabbath. The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.”
He answered them, “He who made me well said to me, ‘Take up your bed and walk.’ ”

Then they asked him, “Who is the Man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?” But the one who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, a multitude being in that place. Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.”

The man departed and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.
For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath.
But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”


P.S. - i am coming from the Truth that SAVED me and i am going Forward and Upward in the Way the Truth the Life

 

[Soyeong]

This is known as 'double speak' = combining two opposing truths as if they are the same.

No. Paul spoke about multiple categories of law other than the Law of God, such as the law of sin and works of the law. For example, in Romans 7:25-8:2, he contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit with the law of sin and death. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10-12, he said that our faith upholds God’s law in contrast with speaking about works of the law that are not of faith, and I have been speaking in favor of upholding God’s law, not works of the law.

The Mosiac ;aw is NOT sinful = AGREE = but if you try and please God thru it you will COMMIT SIN.

Sin is disobedience to God’s law (1 John 3:4), so do you really not recognize how absurd it is to think that trying to obey it is the way to sin while not trying to obey it is the way to avoid sin? Can you explain exactly what it is that is intrinsic to the command to love our neighbor as ourselves that cause those who try to obey it to commit sin? All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, but you think that we shouldn't try to please God by hearing and obeying the Gospel message?

BELIEVE these words from Romans ch7


Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good

Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

In Romans 7, Paul said that God’s law is holy, righteous, and good, and that he wanted to do good, but contrasted that with the law of sin that was causing him not to do the good that he wanted to do. When God's law reveals our sin, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease, but the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so it is sinful and causes sin to increase.

Who was the Messiah born thru = Israel/a virgin/Tribe of Judah = as foretold by the Prophets

What did the Jewish MESSIAH come to accomplish? = Matthew 5:17

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees,
you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

The LORD fulfilled Exodus 31:12-17 = for if HE did not, then HE would of committed sin and died in vain.

Where did the LORD declare that HE fufilled Exodus 31:12-17
AND
that if anyone violates His Fulfillment of Exodus 31:12-17, they will receive the SAME punishment...........it is in the Gospel.

"To fulfill the Law and the Prophets" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment" (NAS Greek Lexicon, so after Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5:17, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be.

 

[David in NJ]

No. Paul spoke about multiple categories of law other than the Law of God, such as the law of sin and works of the law. For example, in Romans 7:25-8:2, he contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit with the law of sin and death. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10-12, he said that our faith upholds God’s law in contrast with speaking about works of the law that are not of faith, and I have been speaking in favor of upholding God’s law, not works of the law.


Sin is disobedience to God’s law (1 John 3:4), so do you really not recognize how absurd it is to think that trying to obey it is the way to sin while not trying to obey it is the way to avoid sin? Can you explain exactly what it is that is intrinsic to the command to love our neighbor as ourselves that cause those who try to obey it to commit sin? All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, but you think that we shouldn't try to please God by hearing and obeying the Gospel message?


In Romans 7, Paul said that God’s law is holy, righteous, and good, and that he wanted to do good, but contrasted that with the law of sin that was causing him not to do the good that he wanted to do. When God's law reveals our sin, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease, but the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so it is sinful and causes sin to increase.

"To fulfill the Law and the Prophets" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment" (NAS Greek Lexicon, so after Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5:17, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be.

No matter how you try to elevate the Mosaic law with the LORD Jesus Christ you violate God's Commandment which brings Death.

The Mosiac law is NOT sinful = AGREE = but if you try and please God thru it you will COMMIT SIN.

"The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law."

RUN from the law of Moses into Salvation thru Jesus Christ = just as all the Apostles did.

the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The most foolish thing you could do is embrace Death thru the law by rejecting Salvation thru JESUS CHRIST.

 

[David in NJ]

Hello

This is my paraphrase oof Exodus 31:12-17: -

Exodus 31:12-17: - The Sabbath Law
12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your ages, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it will die the second death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall die the second death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their ages as a covenant for a prolonged period, {which ends at the vanishing point in time}. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for all time; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.'"

It is a little different from the traditional POV.

If you ignore the Sabbath Law, then you are sinning, and should be put out from among the congregation and will suffer the consequences of the second death at the time of judgement.

Should we rest for one day after working the first six days of the week? The answer is yes, we should rest as the Lord commanded us to.

You are violating the Will of God by attempting to abide under the Mosaic law inspite of the Finished Work of GOD.

This is the WHOLE INTENT of Exodus 31:12-17 and that is why there is a Death Penalty attached to it.

Now go and find in the Gospel where the LORD Jesus Christ confirmed this.

 

[Soyeong]

No matter how you try to elevate the Mosaic law with the LORD Jesus Christ you violate God's Commandment which brings Death.

It is absurd to think that I violate God's commandment by holding the position that we should follow God's commandments in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow, but rather it is refusing to submit to God's command that is violating it.

The Mosiac law is NOT sinful = AGREE = but if you try and please God thru it you will COMMIT SIN.

"The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law."

Again, it is the law of sin that is the strength of sin, not the Law of Moses.

RUN from the law of Moses into Salvation thru Jesus Christ = just as all the Apostles did.

We have been set free from the law of sin in order to obey the Law of Moses, not the other way around. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is the way that he saves us from not living in obedience to it. It is contradictory to think that we should run from God's word to God's word made flesh.

the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The most foolish thing you could do is embrace Death thru the law by rejecting Salvation thru JESUS CHRIST.

In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! In accordance with these verses, I am choosing life while refusing to submit to the Mosaic Law is the way to choose death. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to accept salvation through Jesus Christ while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject salvation through him.

 

[David in NJ]

It is absurd to think that I violate God's commandment by holding the position that we should follow God's commandments in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow, but rather it is refusing to submit to God's command that is violating it.


Again, it is the law of sin that is the strength of sin, not the Law of Moses.


We have been set free from the law of sin in order to obey the Law of Moses, not the other way around. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is the way that he saves us from not living in obedience to it. It is contradictory to think that we should run from God's word to God's word made flesh.


In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! In accordance with these verses, I am choosing life while refusing to submit to the Mosaic Law is the way to choose death. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to accept salvation through Jesus Christ while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject salvation through him.

It is absurd to think that I violate God's commandment by holding the position that we should follow God's commandments

It is absurd that you think you are obeying God's commandment when you are disobeying it.

It is absurd for you to think that you can keep the Mosaic law when all have failed.

It is SIN to keep the Mosaic law which was made under the OLD Covenant.
By doing so, you completely disregard the BLOOD of MESSIAH that was poured out for all the world.
You SIN against the Grace of God by seeking to add to the FINISHED Work of God.


The LORD Jesus Christ is the ONLY man to fulfill the Mosaic law, and then HE nailed it on His Body to the Cross.

Turn to the Salvation of God thru Grace
"not of works less any man should boast."
Turn AWAY from seeking to be self-righteous thru the Mosaic law.

 

[Soyeong]

i am opposing works religion, salvation by the law AND so is God = Exodus 31:12-17

Genesis 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

John 5:7-17
The sick man answered Him, “Sir, I have no man to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; but while I am coming, another steps down before me.”
Jesus said to him, “Rise, take up your bed and walk.” And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked.

And that day was the Sabbath. The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.”
He answered them, “He who made me well said to me, ‘Take up your bed and walk.’ ”

Then they asked him, “Who is the Man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk’?” But the one who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, a multitude being in that place. Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.”

The man departed and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.
For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath.
But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”


P.S. - i am coming from the Truth that SAVED me and i am going Forward and Upward in the Way the Truth the Life

Sin is the transgression of God's law, so it is beyond me how you can use a passage where Jesus told someone to go and sin no more as being against works religion. Jesus set a sinless example of how to practice Judaism by living in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law, yet you think he was against works religion?

You are violating the Will of God by attempting to abide under the Mosaic law inspite of the Finished Work of GOD.

God has made His will known through what He has commanded in His law, so it is absurd to think that we are violating His will by doing His will.

 

[David in NJ]

It is absurd to think that I violate God's commandment by holding the position that we should follow God's commandments in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow, but rather it is refusing to submit to God's command that is violating it.


Again, it is the law of sin that is the strength of sin, not the Law of Moses.


We have been set free from the law of sin in order to obey the Law of Moses, not the other way around. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is the way that he saves us from not living in obedience to it. It is contradictory to think that we should run from God's word to God's word made flesh.


In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! In accordance with these verses, I am choosing life while refusing to submit to the Mosaic Law is the way to choose death. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to accept salvation through Jesus Christ while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject salvation through him.

In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey

Are you UNABLE to SEE ??? Did you read Romans ch10 ?

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[David in NJ]

Sin is the transgression of God's law, so it is beyond me how you can use a passage where Jesus told someone to go and sin no more as being against works religion. Jesus set a sinless example of how to practice Judaism by living in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law, yet you think he was against works religion?


God has made His will known through what He has commanded in His law, so it is absurd to think that we are violating His will by doing His will.

The Apostle Paul declares that you are ignorant of the Righteousness of God.

You better heed the Truth of the New Covenant.

There is a eternal Death Penalty for anyone that adds to the Finished Work of God.

The LORD Jesus layed down His Life on the Cross, shedding His Blood for you, and said: "IT IS FINISHED"

You need to read the Gospel of John and the book of Hebrews.

 

[Soyeong]

It is absurd that you think you are obeying God's commandment when you are disobeying it.

It is absurd for you to think that you can keep the Mosaic law when all have failed.

It is SIN to keep the Mosaic law which was made under the OLD Covenant.
By doing so, you completely disregard the BLOOD of MESSIAH that was poured out for all the world.
You SIN against the Grace of God by seeking to add to the FINISHED Work of God.


The LORD Jesus Christ is the ONLY man to fulfill the Mosaic law, and then HE nailed it on His Body to the Cross.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and believing that we can keep the Mosaic Law is a matter of putting our faith in God's word. In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to keep His commandments, which are not burdensome, so for you to deny that we can keep them is to deny that anyone has ever loved God and to deny that His commandments are not burdensome. Furthermore, there are many examples of people who have kept the Mosaic Law, such as in Joshua 22:5, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14.

It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so it is not a sin to keep it, but just the opposite. According to Titus 2:14, obeying the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to completely disregard what he accomplished through the cross. According to Galatians 5:14, everyone who has ever love their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so while Jesus was the only person who was sinless, he was far from the only person who fulfilled it. What was nailed to Christ's cross was not the Mosaic Law, but our list of sins in transgression of it so that he died in our place to pay the penalty for our sins.

Turn to the Salvation of God thru Grace
"not of works less any man should boast."
Turn AWAY from seeking to be self-righteous thru the Mosaic law.

In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of having first obeyed the Mosaic Law, doing good works in obedience to it is nevertheless a central part of our salvation. The Mosaic Law was not given as instructions for how to become self-righteous, but for how to testify about God's righteousness.

Are you UNABLE to SEE ??? Did you read Romans ch10 ?

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Jesus is the goal of the Mosaic Law.

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the Mosaic Law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works instead of pursing the Mosaic Law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the Mosaic Law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult to obey, that obedience to it brings life, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead (Titus 2:14). So nothing in this passage has anything to do with Jesus ending the Mosaic Law, but just the opposite.