On How to be saved

[Episkopos]

"A mountain of extraordinary experiences weighs less than an ounce of inspired scripture"

...and yet without that extraordinary experience there would be no scripture.

Paradox.

And the scriptures testify of a God that visits people with extraordinary experience and gives them grace which is extraordinary power by the Spirit.

All in all....extraordinary!

 

[bbyrd009]

Because I feel that a god who would intend his word to be misunderstood, is a capricious god.

well, wadr that is the wrong frame to contemplate that from, imo God does not intend misunderstanding, but prolly more like knowing we are naked does, something like that

Jeremiah 20:7 You deceived me, LORD, and I was deceived; you ...

... O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived:

 

[justbyfaith]

From David Gusik's commentary:

B. The burden of the persecuted prophet.

1. (Jer 20:7-8) Jeremiah speaks to God of his own faithfulness.

O Lord, You induced me, and I was persuaded;
You are stronger than I, and have prevailed.
I am in derision daily;
Everyone mocks me.
For when I spoke, I cried out;
I shouted, "Violence and plunder!"
Because the word of the Lord was made to me
A reproach and a derision daily.

a. You are stronger than I, and have prevailed: Jeremiah explained to God that he was compelled to his prophetic work. He had not desired it or pursued it, yet God prevailed upon him to take on this prophetic work.

i. You induced me: “The verb seduce (pata) occurs in Exodus 22:16(cf. Judges 16:5) in a law regarding sexual seduction. Jeremiah seems to be saying that he had understood his relationship to Yahweh to be something like a marriage bond but it was now claimed that he had been deceived, enticed by Yahweh, who had used him and tossed him aside.” (Thompson)

b. I am in derision daily; everyone mocks me: Perhaps Jeremiah spoke in light of his recent experience of being set in the public stocks (Jeremiah 20:1-2). Stuck in the stocks, he was the object of mockery and derision, even as Jesus would later endure similar humiliation.

c. The word of the Lord was made to me a reproach and a derision daily: As a faithful messenger of the Lord, it was difficult for Jeremiah to endure the reproach and derision that came to the one who prophesied coming judgment and catastrophe for Judah.

i. “Because Jeremiah’s words remained unfulfilled for so long, people just ridiculed him whenever he spoke about the future.” (Harrison)

From A.R. Fausset:

7. Jeremiah's complaint, not unlike that of Job, breathing somewhat of human infirmity in consequence of his imprisonment. Thou didst promise never to give me up to the will of mine enemies, and yet Thou hast done so. But Jeremiah misunderstood God's promise, which was not that he should have nothing to suffer, but that God would deliver him out of sufferings ( Jer 1:19 ).
deceived--Others translate as Margin, "Thou hast enticed" or "persuaded me," namely, to undertake the prophetic office, "and I was persuaded," that is, suffered myself to be persuaded to undertake what I find too hard for me. So the Hebrewword is used in a good sense ( Gen 9:27, Margin; Pro 25:15 Hsa 2:14 ).
stronger than I--Thou whose strength I could not resist hast laid this burden on me, and hast prevailed (hast made me prophesy, in spite of my reluctance) ( Jer 1:5-7 ); yet, when I exercise my office, I am treated with derision ( Lam 3:14 ).

 

[Ac28]

It is written...2 Timothy 3:15-16 (kjv).

Very true. It is all FOR our learning and those other things in vs 16, but it certainly isn't all TO us or ABOUT us.

 

[justbyfaith]

Very true. It is all FOR our learning and those other things in vs 16, but it certainly isn't all TO us or ABOUT us.

We ought to always consider what the personal application to our lives might be, when looking at any and every scripture.

 

[Ac28]

We ought to always consider what the personal application to our lives might be, when looking at any and every scripture.

I was taught there are 4 types of truth in every book in the Bible - Doctrinal, Prophetic, Practical, and Dispensational. Things like Deity and History would be under Doctrinal. Prophetic is self explained. Practical is our walk. The 1st 3 are usually Universal truths, although the walk might vary, somewhat, depending on the dispensation where and when it occurs. Dispensational Truth most always varies and is valid ONLY for those involved in the particular dispensation in which it occurs. For example, the Great Commission was given to the 12 ONLY. The sermon on the Mount has nothing to do with us today, but are the rules for Israel's promised earthly Kingdom. Most of what Christ taught involved Israel's Kingdom and none of that applies to us.

Most false teaching is due to people dragging dispensational truths from a past dispensation into our present dispensation, where they don't apply. Denominational Churches are the greatest offenders of this. They teach that MANY things given ONLY to Israel, in past all-Israel dispensations, like the Gospels and Acts, now belong to Gentiles. The reason God put 2Tim 2:15, "right division", and Phil 1:10, "test the things that differ" (see Strong's) in the Bible was to give us the proper tools to avoid believing something that applies ONLY to a past dispensation, also belongs to us.

 

[Dave L]

The sermon on the Mount has nothing to do with us today,

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” (2 John 9)

The Sermon on the Mount = Jesus' doctrine: “And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:” (Matthew 7:28)

Sermon on the Mount is the Doctrine of Christ

 

[Ac28]

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” (2 John 9)

The Sermon on the Mount = Jesus' doctrine: “And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:” (Matthew 7:28)

Sermon on the Mount is the Doctrine of Christ

But the Sermon on the Mount applies ONLY to Israel, since it outlines the rules for the all-Israel, promised earthly Kingdom, which no one saved after 64AD will ever take part in. Christendom has stupidly taught that the Sermon on the Mount is our rules for living today. Most of Christ's teachings revolved around Israel's Kingdom (His Gospel, Parables, etc) and none of that applies directly to us.

 

[Dave L]

But the Sermon on the Mount applies ONLY to Israel, since it outlines the rules for the all-Israel, promised earthly Kingdom, which no one saved after 64AD will ever take part in. Christendom has stupidly taught that the Sermon on the Mount is our rules for living today. Most of Christ's teachings revolved around Israel's Kingdom (His Gospel, Parables, etc) and none of that applies directly to us.

This is not true. It means those who say it is for another time do not have the doctrine of Christ and you know what this means according to John.

 

[amadeus]

I fail to see how, thinking that God intended to mislead you in what He inspired, would be a step forward.

Being able to trust God is a step forward. Believing that God is capricious, to me, would be a step backward.

Because I feel that a god who would intend his word to be misunderstood, is a capricious god.

Read the scriptures my friend and try to understand or ask of God. Consider that Jesus is the Word of God. If the Bible is in some way him, why is it that people misunderstand or understand not at all what has been written by those inspired by God to write therein?

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matt 13:10-15

 

[amadeus]

They made an idol out of a "brass thing" rather than seeing the meaning behind the image that was presented to them.

Don't people sometimes do the same thing with the written Bible?

 

[Helen]

Sermon on the Mount is the Doctrine of Christ

I believe it is the doctrine of the kingdom.
No one believes it or keeps it.

I see no one handed, or one eyed Christian around!

I 100% believe that Jesus here was showing just that...that it could not be kept, outside of HIM!!

Here, Jesus too the old law ( which could not be kept without the blood of bulls and goats) ..and He raised the Old Law on the Mount, up to the heart level.

It is impossible to keep in this realm. Therefore we must live in His.

 

[amadeus]

and even in the moment, the reason for the manifestation of the Serpent on a Pole can be examined; why did the snakes appear, iow

When they called on Him, He provided a way out of the trouble of the moment. People later presumed that what worked once [according to the flesh] would work again. People do the same thing today. Instead of striving to hear His voice and to follow Him along each step of our journey, we want prescribed black and white rules that always work the same. People want that, but God did not plan things that way. If we cannot hear Him, Bible or no Bible, we are in trouble for sure.

 

[Ac28]

This is not true. It means those who say it is for another time do not have the doctrine of Christ and you know what this means according to John.

I know nothing of the kind, because it's not scriptural and it can't be proven by quoting anything from the Gospels. Nothing in them is ABOUT us today, except for Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

 

[Dave L]

I know nothing of the kind, because it's not scriptural and it can't be proven by quoting anything from the Gospels. Nothing in them is ABOUT us today, except for Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

Paul quotes and uses the Sermon on the mount repeatedly. If it is not for today, neither is Paul.

 

[justbyfaith]

@amadeus wrote:

why is it that people misunderstand or understand not at all what has been written by those inspired by God to write therein?

They are not relying on the Holy Spirit in some way, shape, or form.

Proverbs 8:8-9, All the words of my (wisdom's) mouth are in righteousness: there is nothing forward or perverse in them. They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

2 Corinthians 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

Proverbs 1:6, To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

2 Peter 1:20, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[bbyrd009]

When they called on Him, He provided a way out of the trouble of the moment.

i would back up more even, to when/how the snakes even manifested, but good points imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Gospels. Nothing in them is ABOUT us today

um, yikes?

 

[Ac28]

Paul quotes and uses the Sermon on the mount repeatedly. If it is not for today, neither is Paul.

Paul's 7 Acts books (Rom, Cor, Thess, Gal) aren't written TO us or ABOUT us today. They are written to an past ALL-ISRAEL ACTS CHURCH containing Jews and Gentiles that, being grafted into Israel, were all part of Israel. Everything Paul taught in Acts was based on Moses and the Prophets, Acts 26:22. The Hope for both Jews and Gentiles, those found in Paul's Acts books, is the New Jerusalem, which will be attached to the New Earth.

On the other hand,

Paul's last 7 books (Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, Phile), all written after Acts, ARE the only books in the Bible that are TO us or ABOUT anyone living today. We are a purely Gentile Church, under pure Grace, with absolutely NO association with ANYTHING Israel. EVERYTHING in these 7 books of Paul was hid in God since before the ages, Eph 3:9, Col 1:26. It is therefore impossible that ANY DOCTRINE after Acts can merge with any doctrine during Acts, or before. The Hope for us today is to be resurrected directly to God's abode in the Highest Heaven, where Christ now sits at God's right hand, Eph 1:20, Eph 2:6. We Gentiles, today, are the only people in the Bible that will go to Heaven.

 

[amadeus]

i would back up more even, to when/how the snakes even manifested, but good points imo

Who are these snakes? Some of those beasts [Job 18:3, Ecc 3:18]that need to be killed or? I speak not of the little reptiles slithering around here and there but the beasts that Solomon writes that wisdom has killed [Prov 9:1-2]. So then are not those snakes among those beasts of Solomon's writings that need to be killed? Do we have the wisdom to accomplish it in ourselves? Do we have something real to confront the beasts [snakes] or is it only another Nehushtan?