On How to be saved

[Nancy]

I don't believe in sinless perfection: in principle the believer does not want to sin (John 8; 'Go, and sin no more'), but we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (1 John 2), if we do. 'No longer shall sin have dominion, Though present to tempt and annoy'.

Yes @farouk , I agree 100%. For a Christian, sin has lost it's power to rule our lives, "No longer shall sin have dominion..." we are no longer it's slave. We do not live under the written law, but under Christ's Grace. And I say to that, thank you Jesus ♥

 

[justbyfaith]

A man can walk in utter freedom from sin; the key to this being that you must not put your trust in your performance to save you. As long as you look to the Cross and trust that Jesus' shed blood is your redemption, He is able to keep you from sinning in the practical sense. But the moment you begin to think that you are saving yourself by your righteous behaviour, you will fall back into sin so that you can be driven to the Cross as the only remedy for sin. If you keep your focus on the Cross and the forgiveness that it provides, you will be able to defeat the wet paint principle by circumventing the condemnation of the law, and with it the principle of the law that is basically this: sin takes advantage of the law in order to produce in you all manner of concupiscence. When you begin to understand that you are truly forgiven of past, present, and future sin, the law no longer has dominion over you with its ability to incite sinful behaviours within your flesh.

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

 

[Enoch111]

If you keep your focus on the Cross and the forgiveness that it provides, you will be able to defeat the wet paint principle

I still don't see any connection between wet paint and what you are saying. Ordinarily if there is a painted surface and a sign says WET PAINT everyone stays away from it until it is dry. The only connection I can see is

WET PAINT = SIN = STAY AWAY.

Which means you will not sin, which means you will not need to confess and be forgiven.

 

[justbyfaith]

I still don't see any connection between wet paint and what you are saying. Ordinarily if there is a painted surface and a sign says WET PAINT everyone stays away from it until it is dry. The only connection I can see is

WET PAINT = SIN = STAY AWAY.

Which means you will not sin, which means you will not need to confess and be forgiven.

For those who are not forgiven, the wet paint principle = the forbidden fruit principle...the principle is coined from the reality that is spoken of in Romans 7:7-13...that without the law sin is dead...indwelling sin takes advantage of the law in order to produce in those who are carnal (whether believing or unbelieving) all manner of concupiscence.

The WET PAINT sign is a commandment to stay away...but you will find that if no one is looking, the inclination of many is to test the boundaries...many will touch the bench that has a WET PAINT sign on it to see if it is still wet...our inclination is to test the boundaries to see if there will be any real consequences for violating the law of the Lord...will my finger end up wet with paint or is the paint dry? We cannot resist the curiosity of what the outcome might be. As the serpent said to Eve, "You shall not surely die" when God had spoken otherwise...because the outcome seemed to her to be uncertain, she chose to test the word of the Lord and ate the fruit.

If you know that you are forgiven then you know it is also true that you verily shall not come into condemnation (in the New Testament scheme of things (John 5:24 (kjv)))...because Jesus paid the price for your sin...but if you cease to be born again, so that your inclination is towards disobeying the Lord...then that inclination is the same as spiritual death...however if you desire to obey Him and fail to do so for that the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak...His blood covers over your sin because the sin isn't willful disobedience but is the result of human weakness.

So then, because you know that you verily shall not come into condemnation (John 5:24 (kjv)), the wet paint principle does not come into effect because the uncertainty principle also is no longer there. There can be no condemnation for you as long as you desire to obey the Lord, and as long as you are trusting in His finished work on the Cross to save you. So then, that principle of condemnation does not work within you because there is no possibility of condemnation....because you desire to obey the Lord...that condemnation principle does not have the power to entice you into a sinful behaviour pattern. It is the fact of possible condemnation that makes us commit sin all over again...because we somehow want to sin and get a different result than condemnation. So we must either accept that we are eternally condemned (in order to remove the uncertainty) or else we must lay hold of the forgiveness that Jesus offers us through the blood of the Cross, wherein we are taken out from under the law, we become dead to and are delivered from the law. This translates into forgiveness of past, present, and future sin(s). Because we are forgiven, the power of sin is broken. I cannot explain it all in this post...but if you go to the thread that I linked to above and will link again below in a moment, and if you will study out the principles in the Tract/Booklet that is presented, you might be able to lay hold of the principles by which you can be set free from the power of the wet paint/forbidden fruit principle.

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

 

[bbyrd009]

He is able to keep you from sinning in the practical sense.

horse puckey, you do not know what you are talking about, sorry

but if you cease to be born again, so that your inclination is towards disobeying the Lord...then that inclination is the same as spiritual death...however if you desire to obey Him and fail to do so for that the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak...His blood covers over your sin because the sin isn't willful disobedience but is the result of human weakness.

this is how seven worse spirits and twice the sons of hell are made, not partakers in Christ who pick up their crosses and follow, and do even greater things than the effigy of Jesus that you pretend to worship.

So you go with all of the others who willfully teach ignoring and disobeying the law, and cannot confess any sin imo

 

[bbyrd009]

There can be no condemnation for you as long as you desire to obey the Lord, and as long as you are trusting in His finished work on the Cross to save you.

you are a liar, as all will be judged for their works, like you have already been Quoted many times now but refuse to address,

2 Corinthians 5:10 Lexicon: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

so, you can listen to a deceived liar or Scripture here, and the choice is up to you

 

[justbyfaith]

you are a liar, as all will be judged for their works, like you have already been Quoted many times now but refuse to address,

2 Corinthians 5:10 Lexicon: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

so, you can listen to a deceived liar or Scripture here, and the choice is up to you

I love you too....

No, it is not a lie what I wrote...see John 5:24 (kjv). Those who are in Christ shall not come into condemnation. This is not to say that we will not be judged. Those of us who are in Christ will be judged over the good works that we did; at what is called the Bema seat of Christ (see 1 Corinthians 3:11-15). If you are in Christ, then all of your sins are washed away (1 Corinthians 6:11); you are justified by His blood (Romans 5:9): you are forgiven of all of your sin(s) (Romans 4:6-8).

If you are not, then the sins that you have committed will put you in hell (Romans 6:23). For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23.

 

[justbyfaith]

horse puckey, you do not know what you are talking about, sorry

I do indeed know exactly what I am talking about.

See 1 Corinthians 2:14.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[bbyrd009]

Those of us who are in Christ

ah yes, "us"
You are lost as two boys kissing imo, ok, and your cock-sureness just puts an exclamation mark on it

and ps, you have just denied Scripture again, when you say "Those of us who are in Christ will be judged over the good works that we did," in open, obvious defiance of what Scripture says, and that after you have erroneously declared It to be Word too, see?
10All must come before the judgement seat, not any "us" that you have chosen to arbitrate, sorry

those in your camp have a diff doctrine for worming out of that v btw, i think it goes something like '"believers don't have to include themselves in that particular "all,"' although i never got why not ezackly, some regressive Special Snowflake crap too i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

See 1 Corinthians 2:14.

classic, i guess it makes for a great deflection when you can't address the point at least

and to those of you who say you are saved already; all of you, every single one,
16:25, 17:33, et al,
He who seeks to save his life will lose it

iow you do not even have a hope of salvation, see, there is no "probably" or "maybe" in there at all!
He who seeks to save his life will lose it

 

[Nancy]

ah yes, "us"
You are lost as two boys kissing imo, ok, and your cock-sureness just puts an exclamation mark on it

and ps, you have just denied Scripture again, when you say "Those of us who are in Christ will be judged over the good works that we did," in open, obvious defiance of what Scripture says, and that after you have erroneously declared It to be Word too, see?
10All must come before the judgement seat, not any "us" that you have chosen to arbitrate, sorry

those in your camp have a diff doctrine for worming out of that v btw, i think it goes something like '"believers don't have to include themselves in that particular "all,"' although i never got why not ezackly, some regressive Special Snowflake crap too i guess

Hi Mark,
I think JBF means we (Christians) will not be judged by our sin, as our sin has been judged already and paid for already through Christ. But judged by their works unto "rewards" or such? Just sayin

 

[bbyrd009]

I think JBF means we (Christians) will not be judged by our sin, as our sin has been judged already and paid for already through Christ.

imo all you gotta do is put that up next to this,

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

and decide for yourself i guess. But there's plenty of support, too, 2not only ours but the whole world's..., plenty of Scriptural ways to negate that yack imo, it is a way to sit on the fence with a badge of pride, and that's about all it is imo

 

[Nancy]

imo all you gotta do is put that up next to this,

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

and decide for yourself i guess. But there's plenty of support, too, 2not only ours but the whole world's..., plenty of Scriptural ways to negate that yack imo, it is a way to sit on the fence with a badge of pride, and that's about all it is imo

Yes, we do ALL have to stand before the judgement seat but not to be judged for the same things. Unbelievers-are judged unto eternal damnation. Christians are judged by their "works" of the Spirit...those done in the flesh will be burned up. So, same seat but very different judgements...IMO.

 

[Nancy]

imo all you gotta do is put that up next to this,

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

and decide for yourself i guess. But there's plenty of support, too, 2not only ours but the whole world's..., plenty of Scriptural ways to negate that yack imo, it is a way to sit on the fence with a badge of pride, and that's about all it is imo

Two DIFFERENT judgments, first the goats, then the sheep. If Christians are going to be judged by their "sin", then Jesus died for nothing...

 

[bbyrd009]

goats and sheep are not individuals, all will be judged for their works, and you must pick up your cross and follow for a good reason i guess.
Sounds like you already know though, so why bother? I do not know, and i am not seeking to save my life

but Dave agrees with you, if that helps.
You're saved too, huh Dave?

so if you are in agreement then my path is clear, and i wish y'all the best of luck ok
no hard feelings i hope

 

[Nancy]

goats and sheep are not individuals, all will be judged for their works, and you must pick up your cross and follow for a good reason i guess.
Sounds like you already know though, so why bother? I do not know, and i am not seeking to save my life

but Dave agrees with you, if that helps.
You're saved too, huh Dave?

so if you are in agreement then my path is clear, and i wish y'all the best of luck ok
no hard feelings i hope

If goats and sheep are not individuals then, what are they?

"In the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, we are looking at man redeemed and saved, and man condemned and lost. A casual reading seems to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. The “sheep” acted charitably, giving food, drink, and clothing to the needy. The “goats” showed no charity. This seems to result in salvation for the sheep and damnation for the goats.

However, Scripture does not contradict itself, and the Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that salvation is by faith through the grace of God and not by our good works (see John 1:12; Acts 15:11; Romans 3:22-24; Romans 4:4-8; Romans 7:24-25; Romans 8:12; Galatians 3:6-9; and Ephesians 2:8-10). In fact, Jesus Himself makes it clear in the parable that the salvation of the “sheep” is not based on their works—their inheritance was theirs “since the creation of the world” (Matthew 25:34), long before they could ever do any good works! The good works mentioned in the parable are not the cause of salvation but the effect of salvation."

 

[bbyrd009]

If goats and sheep are not individuals then, what are they?

"In the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, we are looking at man redeemed and saved, and man condemned and lost. A casual reading seems to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. The “sheep” acted charitably, giving food, drink, and clothing to the needy. The “goats” showed no charity. This seems to result in salvation for the sheep and damnation for the goats.

However, Scripture does not contradict itself, and the Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that salvation is by faith through the grace of God and not by our good works (see John 1:12; Acts 15:11; Romans 3:22-24; Romans 4:4-8; Romans 7:24-25; Romans 8:12; Galatians 3:6-9; and Ephesians 2:8-10). In fact, Jesus Himself makes it clear in the parable that the salvation of the “sheep” is not based on their works—their inheritance was theirs “since the creation of the world” (Matthew 25:34), long before they could ever do any good works! The good works mentioned in the parable are not the cause of salvation but the effect of salvation."

ok thanks, but in another minnit here you'll be justifying how you are also a worm, and God saves worms now i guess, so i'm still passing on your interp wadr

 

[Nancy]

ok thanks, but in another minnit here you'll be justifying how you are also a worm, and God saves worms now i guess, so i'm still passing on your interp wadr

Okay, pass if you must but FTR, I would NEVER call myself a worm, since I identify myself through Christ alone and He IS my identity ♥ Gotta run..BBL.

 

[bbyrd009]

Okay, pass if you must but FTR, I would NEVER call myself a worm, since I identify myself through Christ alone and He IS my identity ♥ Gotta run..BBL.

ok, i'll be the one running, and you saved ppl can reason with each other, and even do a circle-pat if you like

but i hope you see why this might be taken as
"whatever gets me another post away from those terrible Scripture vv that i cannot even directly address"
ok?

 

[justbyfaith]

and ps, you have just denied Scripture again, when you say "Those of us who are in Christ will be judged over the good works that we did," in open, obvious defiance of what Scripture says, and that after you have erroneously declared It to be Word too, see?

Please inform me as to what scripture verse or passage it is that you think I have denied.

He who seeks to save his life will lose it

iow you do not even have a hope of salvation, see, there is no "probably" or "maybe" in there at all!
He who seeks to save his life will lose it

The life being spoken of here is your life, in the sense of your life in this world...if you try to keep your life in this world and will not give it up to Christ, then you will miss out on eternal life...but if you give up your life in this world and relinquish your right to yourself and what you want for your life, you will find that the desires of your heart are changed and that He will give you the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4).

It is not, therefore, talking about eternal life, that if you actually take a step to receive Christ and thus His salvation that you would lose your life (i.e. be eternally condemned). The Bible teaches explicitly that if you seek salvation in Christ and enter in through the door, that you will have salvation and not condemnation.

and you must pick up your cross and follow for a good reason i guess.

To pick up your cross daily, denying yourself, simply means that self is not on the throne any longer...if you are going to live by the love of the Lord, understand that this means putting yourself last, others before yourself, and Jesus first...and that whatever your cross in life might be, you bear it willingly without complaining or arguing (see Philippians 2:14-15).

This is not a requirement for salvation as much as a telling to you what your life will have to be if you receive salvation and thus the love of God into your heart.

Salvation (and this love) is a free gift from the Lord...but what it means in your life is costly...to live by the love that He gives us so freely would not be an easy thing for someone to do who is not imbued supernaturally with that love...but for those who have received this gift, His yoke is easy and His burden is light.