On How to be saved

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
the cliff seems bottomless, huh, and the truth just too awful to even contemplate. Jesus did not die for my sins, and I cannot go to heaven when I die? Then why bother, right? See, the def of Death More Abundantly is apparent, I don't have to ask anyone to stick with the accepted def bc no believer would ever even approach it. If you want all that stuff in the NT to come true you gotta jump off that cliff tho imo. You were not meant to worship snakes on poles
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No Son of Man may die for another's sins, whether you like that or not, and etc, wadr.

It doesn't say that exactly.

Scripture does not contradict itself.

Then you had better consider that your interpretation of those verses in Ezekiel contradict what the scripture plainly says in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

or why you cannot find any Support in Scripture for your most closely held beliefs,

I derive my most closely held beliefs from scripture...what are you talking about?
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus did not die for my sins, and I cannot go to heaven when I die?
Right. If Jesus didn't die for your sins, you are not going to heaven when you die.

You are certainly not going to get there by law-keeping (Galatians 3:10-13, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).

Jesus is the only way in (John 14:6); the only door that leads to eternal life (John 10).
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
It doesn't say that exactly.
it doesn't matter, I could Quote it NT too, the soul that sins is the one that dies, be perfect as Christ is perfect, no whores or publicans in the kingdom, little children do not be deceived, all the same concept.
Then you had better consider that your interpretation of those verses in Ezekiel contradict what the scripture plainly says in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
when you try to put Jesus in there, certainly, but then that is not what 1Cor says anyway right. So not only do we substitute Jesus in there, we also accept the interpretation that removes us from any responsibility, and engenders a Father that is as evil and capricious as we are, Who supposedly demands sacrifice, etc. to boot. How bout we all put on our big-boy pants and read it like a grown-up? Because God did not need Jesus to die for us, that is a damned lie. Christ died for my sins. Note that the preceding sentence can be interpreted various ways, and fwiw I put "because of" in place of "for" there, to clarify the point, but of course anyone else may believe as they like. But you're going to be forced to ignore or misinterpret other Scripture when you do I guess
I derive my most closely held beliefs from scripture...what are you talking about?
i have yet to read of a single belief of yours wadr, and since I know how that reads let me say here that you strike me as a very good person, ok, prolly much better hearted than me even, but note that beliefs cannot be proven, beliefs are not Absolute Truths, etc, and now tell me what it would take to get you to change one of your "beliefs," say the one about you going to some place called heaven after you have died? That btw you cannot find anywhere in Scripture, except in a misinterpreted parable? Our most closely held "beliefs" are derived from the most gratuitous reading of Scripture, and Life, more abundantly is the first casualty. We are taught to hold beliefs inviolate, but then they are no longer even beliefs, see--these ppl will then speak in absolutes and talk about proof and facts, and etc. if you have any beliefs, imo that would be great, see, we could discuss those right. ATs can't be discussed[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Right. If Jesus didn't die for your sins, you are not going to heaven when you die.
The inference being that if Jesus did die for your sins then Death More Abundantly is what awaits you. Yet "you and your sons will be here with me." So you have a contradiction of Scripture there if you are correct, seems to me. Fwiw when the Cult of Sol is understood this becomes a non-issue, but pls understand that I would love for your beliefs to manifest ok, they used to be my beliefs to. "Beliefs" is really just a way to say "expectations," huh?
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
when you try to put Jesus in there, certainly, but then that is not what 1Cor says anyway right.

See 1 John 5:1; and then read 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 all over again.

now tell me what it would take to get you to change one of your "beliefs," say the one about you going to some place called heaven after you have died?

I would have to be shown in the word how my current belief is faulty.

That btw you cannot find anywhere in Scripture,

Yes it is found in scripture. For example, Colossians 1:5 and 1 Peter 1:4; not to mention Revelation 21:10-27.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
"Christ" does not mean "Jesus," Caesar was "Christ" before Jesus was, right? Not our "Christ," but that is not the point. Christ is a title that was appropriated for spiritual purposes iow, and our High Priest is Christ.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
See 1 John 5:1; and then read 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 all over again.



I would have to be shown in the word how my current belief is faulty.



Yes it is found in scripture. For example, Colossians 1:5 and 1 Peter 1:4; not to mention Revelation 21:10-27.
I can't really argue these from an iPad sorry, but I can when I get back, prolly Friday. Meanwhile I suggest that when I interpret those they will not contradict other Scripture that I would then be compelled to ignore. Those are only found in Scripture in English, and by the most gratuitous reading to boot. I would at least contemplate the possibility that "Jesus died for my sins" really = "I killed Christ when i sinned." See you Fri :)
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I would at least contemplate the possibility that "Jesus died for my sins" really = "I killed Christ when i sinned."
That is how A.W. Tozer would interpret it, anyway. He posited that it wasn't the Jewish people that put Jesus on the Cross; but every one of us that needed His sacrifice in order to be redeemed. For it was our sins that put Him there.

It helps to understand that He gave His life for us willingly.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
That statement is a lie that is in direct contradiction to John 10:10.
the diff in Life more Abundantly and Death more Abundantly might be obscure to...some, but note how you are now speaking in ATs again, along with likely confusing the two? The statement is not a lie bc I made no statements, see, number 1. I pointed out an inference, and you maybe object to "going to heaven after you have literally died" being referred to as Death, more abundantly,sure, but that still does not mean I made any statements per se, right? So just insert that there in the quotes for Death, more Abundantly if you like. For now. Now the inference is accurate, yes? Not saying "true" there, but accurate for your beliefs
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
That is how A.W. Tozer would interpret it, anyway. He posited that it wasn't the Jewish people that put Jesus on the Cross; but every one of us that needed His sacrifice in order to be redeemed. For it was our sins that put Him there.

It helps to understand that He gave His life for us willingly.
It helps more to understand that that is a lie, and that God did not need a sacrifice in order to make you acceptable to Him. I don't need any professor to speculate who crucified Jesus; I can read that right in the NT wadr
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What is an AT?
.
.
.
I think that you are looking at it from an earthly perspective, to be honest with you.

We have a spirit, soul, and body. When we die, the immortal soul goes on to be with Christ...2 Corinthians 5:8...we receive a glorified body.

It is called life after death. You never heard of that, I guess.

If you want to go by what your eyes see then I suppose I will not be able to convince you of anything. But in the Christian faith, much of it has to do with walking by faith and not by sight. 2 Corinthians 5:7. Blind faith? No...Hebrews 11:1. Our faith is based in solid evidences.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It helps more to understand that that is a lie, and that God did not need a sacrifice in order to make you acceptable to Him. I don't need any professor to speculate who crucified Jesus; I can read that right in the NT wadr
You must be reading a different Bible than I am. Perhaps you should ask the Lord to give you the Holy Spirit so that you can understand the Bible.

As it is, I think 1 Corinthians 2:14 applies to your reading of it.

The word isn't nigh you, in your mouth and in your heart. At least, not the word of faith that we preach!
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,155
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I would remind you of the acronym KISS.

As I read through this , I presume that you mean by KISS:-
Keep It Simple Stupid. And not :- Knights In Satan's Service!! :D
( The Rock band.)

Have a very blessed and wonderful 2019.
We walk into the New Year hand in hand with the Lord, He knows the way ahead, the victories and the pitfalls.

Bless you...Helen
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,155
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
@bbyrd009

Hey Mark...nice to see you 'almost' back again.
Agree...doing this on an iPad is very hard work indeed.
At night I do it, but I hate it!

Safe trip home...and a blessed New Year. H
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
It helps more to understand that that is a lie, and that God did not need a sacrifice in order to make you acceptable to Him. I don't need any professor to speculate who crucified Jesus; I can read that right in the NT wadr
or since that is certainly true in a sense let me rephrase this to say that it will help more to understand how we interpret that into a gratuitous lie, in order to comport with our expectations. The same expectations that ancient Chinese emperors, and in fact the whole world that they rep, including me, seem to have been born with. Huh? But if you remember back far enough, see, this was not always true. Remember the day when you found the world, and see. Or watch any two year old find the world, and remember
Imo
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
It is called life after death. You never heard of that, I guess.
that post is full of gems, but this being the most obvious I'll address it now. Yes, I have heard of it, it is embodied most recently in the Cult of Sol Invictus, and thence into your version of Christianity via Constantine, and you will never partake in Christ that way. That is pretty obviously Death More Abundantly right, starts tomorrow, etc. Life, More Abundantly starts today.

Have a happy, see you Friday maybe. Try at least acknowledging "Death More Abundantly" ok, please use it in a sentence iow, ty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,155
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Try at least acknowledging "Death More Abundantly" ok, please use it in a sentence iow, ty.

It used to annoy me when I saw you post that ...until I realized you were telling us that Jesus came to give us LIFE more abundantly ..TODAY!
As you are often faithfully reminding us,... some of us just live with the expectation of "abundant life one-day" in the sweet by and by.

Reminds me of a line from Alice In Wonderland.

"Jam yesterday, jam tomorrow, but never jam today!"

Which is how many 'saved' people live..."I was saved, I will be fully saved..." but abundant life is kept in the future...
Hence - "Death... more abundantly"

....H
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009