Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[Michiah-Imla]

see how you just twist the word to make it say what you want?

I did not twist the scripture.

Read it:

“…if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews 10:26)

What are you talking about???

 

[mailmandan]

How do you get "we better not" from "we are not"

see how you just twist the word to make it say what you want?

To "sin willfully" (Hebrews 10:26) carries the idea of deliberate intention which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice.

Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, continuous action.

The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

To "sin willfully" (Hebrews 10:26) carries the idea of deliberate intention which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately

So you have more insight into this passage than the inspired writer had?

Couldn’t God have inspired the original writer to write precisely what you add to this passage?

Take heed:

“What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.” (Deuteronomy 12:32)

 

[mailmandan]

So you have more insight into this passage than the inspired writer had?

Couldn’t God have inspired the original writer to write precisely what you add to this passage?

Take heed:

“What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.” (Deuteronomy 12:32)

The writer was not teaching sinless perfection in contradiction to (1 John 1:8-10). By the time we get down to verse 39, we can see that the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians and not saved Hebrews:

But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[marks]

You taking offense to a meme is ridiculous!

I'm just responding to you, no need to go and imagine I'm all caught up in some emotional state.

You know nothing of my intent other than assumptions.

And your measuring one’s heart by your perceived notions is error.

Again, from the words of Jesus, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." It's no stretch to understand that the way a person speaks, and the things they say, show what they are like.

Above, you assume I've "taken offence" because I've pointed to something, and you ridicule it in the same breath. Speaking of assumptions. Naturally you don't really know me, so you'll have to take my word that this is not an emotional discussion. These things are elementary to me, and I don't mind repeating them, as repetion can be very beneficial.

I don't mind engaging with you, even under these terms, in the hope that good will yet come. Metacommunication like this can often aid in being able to understand others better. If that's what we want. Sometimes, it's not, if we are being honest with ourselves.

I’m more offended that you guys twist the Holy Bible!

Once again, I'll ask that you simply accept what these passages say, without changing their statement because of what you think other passages mean.

These are very straightforward and easy to understand.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

IF this is you, that you be risen with Christ - now, then you shall also appear with Him in glory - then.

Do you believe the plain statement of this passage? Yes or no??

Another:

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Are you a son of God? Do you then in fact know that when He shall appear, that you shall be like Him? That's the plain and staightfoward statement from the Bible. Is it true?

Another:

Philippians 3:20-21 LITV
20) For our citizenship is in Heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21) who will transform our body of humiliation, for it to be conformed to His body of glory, according to the working of Him to be able even to subject all things under Himself.

IF your citizenship is in heaven - now - He will transform your body to be like His - then. This is the clear and straightforward statement of this passage. Yes or no, do you believe it?

These all make the same kind of statement, that if a certain condition exists now (we're raised with Him, we are God's children, our citizenship is in heaven) then there is a certain outcome that will happen then (we appear with Him, we become like Him, our body is transformed to be like His).

These are simply statements proclaiming these truths, and the only way to understand them as saying something diffenent is to assume qualifications not given in the text.

Example

Philippians 3:20-21 LITV
20) For our citizenship is in Heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21) who will transform our body of humiliation, for it to be conformed to His body of glory, unless your citizenship in heaven should cease, according to the working of Him to be able even to subject all things under Himself.

(this part added for effect, and does not appear in the Bible)

Unless we are to add a part that isn't there, then the statements are as I've said. I'm just repeating the words Paul wrote.

Where is the twisting you claim? Show it. I'm quoting to you Scripture, and pointing to what it says. The Bible says these things, not me. If you think they are mistranslated, show me why you think that so. I'm receptive to a valid argument. Otherwise, why not accept what they say?

Much love!

 

[marks]

So you have more insight into this passage than the inspired writer had?

Couldn’t God have inspired the original writer to write precisely what you add to this passage?

Take heed:

“What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.” (Deuteronomy 12:32)

Personally, I think the writer DID write with precision, and we should accept each word for exactly what it says, nothing more, and nothing less.

Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV
26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Would I be correct in saying that where you are reading, ". . . after that we have received the knowledge of the truth", that you are understanding, ". . . after that we have been born again", or, "after that we have been baptized into Christ", or something like that?

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The writer was not teaching sinless perfection in contradiction to (1 John 1:8-10)

There is no contradiction with 1 John 1:8-10 whatsoever.

It just contradicts your ideological interpretations of scriptures that’s all.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Again, from the words of Jesus, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."

An Abundance of scripture comes out of my mouth. Ya’ll think I’m teaching lies so naturally you use the “out of the mouth” scripture against me. I understand. But I can apply it to you guys as well.

you assume I've "taken offence"

You have indicated as much in your own writings.

 

[marks]

An Abundance of scripture comes out of my mouth. Ya’ll think I’m teaching lies so naturally you use the “out of the mouth” scripture against me. I understand. But I can apply it to you guys as well.

No, that's not it, and I think you are smart enough to know what I'm saying, but just to be clear, a person's negative personal characterizations of others will reflect their own character.

You have indicated as much in your own writings.

Really? I'd be curious where you think I've said so. I find this sort of thing to be poor discussion, poor presentation, in general a distraction. I sometimes point these things out hoping that we can just stop that sort of thing.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I did not twist the scripture.

Read it:

“…if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews 10:26)

What are you talking about???

And as I proved, He is speaking of being timid and not recieving the gospel of truth.. that is the willful sin, willful rejection of Jesus sacrifice.

But WE ARE NOT OF THOSE..

You know what I am talking about. You just refuse to see it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The writer was not teaching sinless perfection in contradiction to (1 John 1:8-10). By the time we get down to verse 39, we can see that the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians and not saved Hebrews:

But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul.

He can’t get out of his way

 

[mailmandan]

There is no contradiction with 1 John 1:8-10 whatsoever.

It just contradicts your ideological interpretations of scriptures that’s all.

1 John 1:8-10 clearly refutes sinless perfection and contradicts your ideological interpretations. 1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[BreadOfLife]

lolol

John 6 says whoever eats will never die, live forever, never hunger or thirst, will liver forever, and has eternal life. and give4n Christs own promise he WILL raise them on the last day.

You believe we must do it weekly or more and it does not promise any of these things

I do not follow men. I follow the word..

Wrong.
YOU follow your own warped view of the Word.

The Bible repeatedly tells us the conditions for eternal life that require our cooperation . . .

Matt. 24:13
"He who endures to the end will be saved."

Matt. 7:19-21
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

John 8:51
Truly, truly, I say to you, IF any one keeps my word, he will never see death."

Rom. 8:12-14
So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but IF by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Rom. 8:17
Now IF we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, IF indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

1 Cor. 15:1-2
Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, by which you are saved, IF you hold it fast--unless you believed in vain.

Gal. 6:7-9
Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, IF we do not lose heart.

Shall I go on?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

But WE ARE NOT OF THOSE..

At the moment a faithful follower is not of those.

But he can fall away later…

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1 John 1:8-10 clearly refutes sinless perfection

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:8-9)

Give up the sin @mailmandan and surrender to Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:8-9)

Give up the sin @mailmandan and surrender to Christ.

I already surrendered to Christ several years ago through FAITH (Ephesians 2:8,9) and not through self-righteousness. (Luke 18:9-14; 1 John 1:8)

Here is a lesson for you from Greek scholar AT Robertson.

1 John 3:6-9 Sinneth not (ουχ αμαρτανε). Linear present (linear μενων, keeps on abiding) active indicative of αμαρτανω, "does not keep on sinning." For μενω (abide) see 1 John 2:6; John 15:4-10.

Whosoever sinneth (ο αμαρτανων). Present (linear) active articular participle like μενων above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as αμαρτησας, aorist active participle, would mean).

Hath not seen him (ουχ εωρακεν αυτον). Perfect active indicative of οραω. The habit of sin is proof that one has not the vision or the knowledge (εγνωκεν, perfect active also) of Christ. He means, of course, spiritual vision and spiritual knowledge, not the literal sense of οραω in John 1:18; John 20:29.

He that doeth sin (ο ποιων την αμαρτιαν). "He that keeps on doing sin" (the habit of sin).

Doeth no sin (αμαρτιαν ου ποιε). Linear present active indicative as in verse 1 John 3:4 like αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

His seed (σπερμα αυτου). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. 1 John 3:1

And he cannot sin (κα ου δυνατα αμαρτανειν). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were κα ου δυνατα αμαρτειν or αμαρτησα (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive αμαρτανειν can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8 and αμαρτανων in verse 1 John 3:6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see αμαρτητε and αμαρτη in 1 John 2:1. A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of αμαρτανειν here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1. επιμενωμεν τη αμαρτια (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with αμαρτησωμεν in Romans 6:15. (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

1 John 3 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Proverbs 17:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I already surrendered to Christ several years ago through FAITH

“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4)

Here’s one of his commandments:

“…Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)

Was Jesus just playing games with us when he said this?

Because according to you sin is inevitable.

What about all the deaths and suffering God inflicted on the ancient Israelites?

Do you think God just went ahead and brought death and destruction for the fun of it on a people incapable of sinlessness and obedience?

Here is a lesson for you from Greek scholar AT Robertson.

And here you perfectly illustrate how to go astray from the word of God.

By citing AT Robinson.

AT Robinson will answer for his work of tearing down the scriptures and remaking them to fit a lie.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Wrong.
YOU follow your own warped view of the Word.

The Bible repeatedly tells us the conditions for eternal life that require our cooperation . . .

See thats what you get when you listen to men

Jesus said those things, He di dnot stutter. He did not give conditions. He did not say you will get these things as long as you do this or that.

He said whoever feeds on the food he will give will
Never hnger
Never thirst
Never die
Live forever
HAS eternal life
Will be raised on the last day

not to mention, they will never be lost.

Just take jesus at his word. And stop listening to men who are tryign to decieve you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

At the moment a faithful follower is not of those.

But he can fall away later…

No

Once again your adding to the text

he said WE (those who are not hesitant or able to make a decision) are NOT OF THOSE who fall away

why? Unlike them, WE HAVE BELIEVED to THe SAVING OF THE SOUL

we made the decision, they have not yet.and unless they do.. They are at risk to fall away.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:8-9)

Give up the sin @mailmandan and surrender to Christ.

He did

When are you going to stop excusing or denying your sin?