Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[BreadOfLife]

Are you so politically correct, and indoctrinated you actually separate a PERSONS OWN TRUTH from the PERSON?
You seriously think you are not calling the PERSON a liar, dishonest?

Get real!!

Name-calling would be calling an African American the "N" word.
It would be calling somebody who is ignorant of something, an "Ignoramus".
It would be calling a dishonest person a "Liar".
It would be calling an over-eater a "Big fat pig".

I haven't engaged in name-calling.

YOUR problem is that you don't understand plain English. "Lying" is a verb, whereas, "Liar" is a noun.
Describing a person's actions is not "name-calling." Name-calling involves actually CALLING somebody a derogatory name.

There ends the grammar lesson for the day.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You cant argue with a delusional person, Taken.

Yes, he believes his opinions are fact and everyone elses opinions are lies.
Yes, he name calls constantly, but claims to be simply naming behavior he disagrees with
Yes, he assigns negative intentions to everyone who calls him out on his bs and who points out problems with Catholicism because in his world, there are no problems with Catholicism.

And yes, there is pretty much a consensus here that BOL calls people liars who disagree with him

Overidentification with your religion is not a pretty state to be in, but here it is.....

And I don't give my "opinions" here. That's not my purpose on this forum.
I only tell the facts about what the Church teaches - and correct those here who insist on lying about them.

Finally - a "consensus" of opinion does NOT make a single fact.
I don't call ANYBODY a "liar" - least of all those who simply "disagree" with me.

Try being honest, for a change, Aspen.

 

[Taken]

Name-calling would be calling an African American the "N" word.
It would be calling somebody who is ignorant of something, an "Ignoramus".
It would be calling a dishonest person a "Liar".
It would be calling an over-eater a "Big fat pig".

I haven't engaged in name-calling.

YOUR problem is that you don't understand plain English. "Lying" is a verb, whereas, "Liar" is a noun.
Describing a person's actions is not "name-calling." Name-calling involves actually CALLING somebody a derogatory name.

There ends the grammar lesson for the day.

Here's a reality check lesson for the day:

Gods Word IS God.
Mans word IS man.

Accusing another of False, Wrong, Untruthful, IS your "politically correct" and forum rules way of calling another a LIAR.

You seriously think False, Wrong, Untruthful, INTENT is a mystery of what you are conveying?

You seriously think man-made grammar, hides the derogatory intent?

Honesty is not beating around the bush.

Society can't handle the TRUTH;
And are TAUGHT beating around the bush IS promoted and acceptable.

And you can't accept another being disagreement with you.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Pipiripi]

If we read in the book of Ezekiel 18. We will see that there is NO on save forever safe.

 

[aspen]

Bearing false witness is also a sin

 

[aspen]

Context and intention are opinions that accompany every word (fact or not) that is communicated - we cannot generate facts - only God can do so. We only report on facts

 

[BreadOfLife]

Here's a reality check lesson for the day:

Gods Word IS God.
Mans word IS man.

Accusing another of False, Wrong, Untruthful, IS your "politically correct" and forum rules way of calling another a LIAR.
You seriously think False, Wrong, Untruthful, INTENT is a mystery of what you are conveying?

You seriously think man-made grammar, hides the derogatory intent?
Honesty is not beating around the bush.
Society can't handle the TRUTH;
And are TAUGHT beating around the bush IS promoted and acceptable.

And you can't accept another being disagreement with you.

God Bless,
Taken

Time for another grammar lesson . . .

If you make a stupid comment and somebody tells you that it is indeed a stupid comment - they're not calling YOU stupid.
You may be an intelligent person who made a stupid comment.

If you tell a lie about the Catholic Church, nobody is calling YOU a "liar."
I'm telling you that what you SAID was a lie.

As to you last comment in RED - that is completely false. Doesn't bother me if somebody simply "disagrees" with me.
My wife disagrees with me from time to time yet I love her.

YOUR problem is that you you can't comprehend the idea that everybody is entitled to their own opinions - but NOT their own "facts" . . .

 

[aspen]

Time for another grammar lesson . . .

If you make a stupid comment and somebody tells you that it is indeed a stupid comment - they're not calling YOU stupid.
You may be an intelligent person who made a stupid comment.

If you tell a lie about the Catholic Church, nobody is calling YOU a "liar."
I'm telling you that what you SAID was a lie.

As to you last comment in RED - that is completely false. Doesn't bother me if somebody simply "disagrees" with me.
My wife disagrees with me from time to time yet I love her.

YOUR problem is that you you can't comprehend the idea that everybody is entitled to their own opinions - but NOT their own "facts" . . .

You are hinging your ministry on a technicality. You may not be labelling people with the term “liar”, but you are calling them dishonest, which, at worst is bearing false witness and at best a shell game based on use of the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are hinging your ministry on a technicality. You may not be labelling people with the term “liar”, but you are calling them dishonest, which, at worst is bearing false witness and at best a shell game based on use of the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

No - the false accusation is on the part of YOU and the rest who have accused me of doing something that I didn't do.

As for "falsely" accusing people of having lied - I have proven them wrong with documentation.
I'm not simply accusing people without actually showing them that they are wrong.

YOU have accused me of calling people"liars" for simply disagreeing with me.
Unless you can prove that - it is a lie.

 

[aspen]

No - the false accusation is on the part of YOU and the rest who have accused me of doing something that I didn't do.

As for "falsely" accusing people of having lied - I have proven them wrong with documentation.
I'm not simply accusing people without actually showing them that they are wrong.

YOU have accused me of calling people"liars" for simply disagreeing with me.
Unless you can prove that - it is a lie.

You’ve called me dishonest because I disagree with you. Unless you can give me an example of a person who is dishonest and not a liar, you are calling me a liar.

You have merely proven that the Protestants you call dishonest (which ironically, is a dishonest way of calling them liars) do not share your opinion. Why would any Catholic think otherwise about Protestant opinion?

No one here mistakes your cavalier attitiude for love, my brother. You are tilting at windmills

 

[BreadOfLife]

You’ve called me dishonest because I disagree with you. Unless you can give me an example of a person who is dishonest and not a liar, you are calling me a liar.
You have merely proven that the Protestants you call dishonest (which ironically, is a dishonest way of calling them liars) do not share your opinion. Why would any Catholic think otherwise about Protestant opinion?

No one here mistakes your cavalier attitiude for love, my brother. You are tilting at windmills

Really?
Show me an instance of this. If you simply "disagreed" with me - I would never have accused you of lying.

PROVE it.

 

[Taken]

Time for another grammar lesson . . .

If you make a stupid comment and somebody tells you that it is indeed a stupid comment - they're not calling YOU stupid.
You may be an intelligent person who made a stupid comment.


If you tell a lie about the Catholic Church, nobody is calling YOU a "liar."
I'm telling you that what you SAID was a lie.

As to you last comment in RED - that is completely false. Doesn't bother me if somebody simply "disagrees" with me.
My wife disagrees with me from time to time yet I love her.

YOUR problem is that you you can't comprehend the idea that everybody is entitled to their own opinions - but NOT their own "facts" . . .

I noticed in your scenario that you have conveniently relieved the Accuser from accountability for stupidity, lies, and their own facts.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I noticed in your scenario that you have conveniently relieved the Accuser from accountability for stupidity, lies, and their own facts.

That's because a stupid comment is not necessarily a lie. It could be completely true and STILL be stupid.
One example would be a person asking a woman who just had a miscarriage how it felt when the baby died instead of offering some sympathy.

That would be a stupid thing to say - but not necessarily a lie.
Doesn't mean that the person is stupid - they just made a stupid comment.

 

[Taken]

The Lord offers SALVATION to everyone.

Any man WHO receives Salvation;
Receives it ONCE and FOREVER!

God is Faithful and True...

REACH OUT an TAKE from the Tree of Life...
And Live Forever "WITH" the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Wanting to Serve]

Only God knows who is truly saved. Many fake belief to impress or be accepted by others. But THEY know they are faking. We need to worry about ourselves and treat others with love (in truth). Titus 3:9 ("But avoid foolish questions...). I would focus on making sure that I love the Lord with all my heart, soul and strength and then treat my neighbor as myself.

When we fight over that which only God knows we take the focus off of being loving and helping others in need. Note in the passage below that Jesus did NOT say....I USED to know you, but now I do not know you. He said I NEVER knew you. Never implies that these people were fakers and they knew it though they were able to fool everyone around them and somehow they hoped to even fool the Lord by saying Lord, Lord. " Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[tabletalk]

Only God knows who is truly saved. Many fake belief to impress or be accepted by others. But THEY know they are faking. We need to worry about ourselves and treat others with love (in truth). Titus 3:9 ("But avoid foolish questions...). I would focus on making sure that I love the Lord with all my heart, soul and strength and then treat my neighbor as myself.

When we fight over that which only God knows we take the focus off of being loving and helping others in need. Note in the passage below that Jesus did NOT say....I USED to know you, but now I do not know you. He said I NEVER knew you. Never implies that these people were fakers and they knew it though they were able to fool everyone around them and somehow they hoped to even fool the Lord by saying Lord, Lord. " Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Welcome! I think that many really don't know they are faking belief; they believe a false gospel. Thoughts?

 

[Taken]

Welcome! I think that many really don't know they are faking belief; they believe a false gospel. Thoughts?

I would say; MANY do not comprehend the difference of their Belief...

Meaning man's mind is designed to hear, see, learn things; then formulate a conclusion, based on what he learns.
Via weighing, this information and that information, and making a logical conclusion;
And tomorrow gain more information and repeat the process of weighing and logically concluding WHAT to believe.

IOW- the "changing of the MIND', is constantly occurring.

One day a man CAN "mindfully" conclude he believes in God. And the next day, receive additional information, and "doubt, wonder, or then decide he "doesn't believe in God"

We can FIND in Scriptures, even Jesus' chosen disciples...went through this same process concerning "new to them" information Jesus was "feeding" them.

Scripture is very clear. The natural MIND is against God.
Scripture is very clear: God is NOT interested in the mans natural MINDS thoughts, it's logic, it's wavering back and forth.

Scripture is very clear; God IS interested IN
The "thoughts" of a man "heart".

A natural mans MIND, can deceive, trick, lie, cheat, plot revenges, etc......all the while knowing the "truth" in his thoughts of his own
Heart.

IOW- the natural spirit (truth) of man, the man can "hide" in his "natural spirit, (ie his truth), in his heart......while his minds thoughts can provoke what is actually AGAINST what his "spirit in his heart KNOWS to be True.

When a man begins HEARING the Word of God; He can do one of two things;
1) One TRUST to believe all he hears IS TRUE
2) Two simply hear, and cipher with his MINDS logic, IF he shall believe it is true.

When a man is learning the Word of God;
Believing it or not; the man IS being "enlightened".

When a man is learning the Word of God;
And Believing what he hears; he begins receiving a "gift" from God; "from Gods Spirit to the mans "natrual spirit" (in his heart);
That Gift is called "faith".

If a man CONTINUES learning, hearing, believing, he CONTINUES receiving faith.

If a man STOPS learning, hearing, believing.
He DISCONTINUES receiving faith. (Ie he falls from faith).

If the man CONTINUES; his faith in his heart INCREASES. As it increases; the man begins to "listen" to his heart; have a urge, by the faith being increased.....TO....call on the Lord;

Call on the Lords Name to CONFESS to the Lord, "the mans Belief in the Lord".

Scripture teaches to become enlightened, hear, read, learn about God, receive faith, AND then BE SURE, you WANT to call on the Lord and Confess belief in Him...
PRECISELY; because IT IS PERMANENT.
(Unlike a wishy washy ever changing MIND)..
A confession of a man from the belief in his Hearts thoughts; Are Precisely what God SHALL hear from an UNSAVED man; And are Precisely unrevokeable.

Because the moment a man gives a TRUE "heart-felt" Confession; the Lord First forgives the man FOR NOT BELIEVING....then makes supernatural changes within the man...that can not be undone. They can not become "undone" because they are secured and maintained; by the Power of God...not the man.

Minds of men can believe all kinds of things;
the True gospel, parts of it, lies, philosophies, be convinced wrong is right if the mans mind reasons certain circumstances leaves one no choice, and right is wrong if one can be convinced by another eloquently twisting the truth; etc.

However the Lord searches the thoughts of a mans natural spirit, (while he is still in sin), for a true confession of the mans belief in God. And God immediately changes the man; and KEEPS him changed; and thus the man becomes accounted as belonging to God; and justified to be redeemed by God.

So inanutshell...HOW a man confesses belief is paramount.
God only accepts belief from a mans heart.
Men however routinely accept belief from a mans mind.
And many men do not know the difference.

Routinely you can find men saying...
I used to believe, but now I don't..<--MIND
Or, I was baptized, but now I don't believe <-
Perhaps baptized with "water", but not with the everlasting Holy Spirit.
They were "baptized" by another, as a baby, or at the "urging" of another, like a parent or girlfriend, dunked in water, and everyone appears happy...
But until one HIMSELF is in heartfelt belief;
He shall not be Baptized with the Holy Spirit.
And When one IS Baptized with the Holy Spirit it is Forever; and his gift of Faith, is become FULL-faith-FULLNESS in God, that that person, can NEVER again NOT believe in God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Only God knows who is truly saved. Many fake belief to impress or be accepted by others. But THEY know they are faking. We need to worry about ourselves and treat others with love (in truth). Titus 3:9 ("But avoid foolish questions...). I would focus on making sure that I love the Lord with all my heart, soul and strength and then treat my neighbor as myself.

When we fight over that which only God knows we take the focus off of being loving and helping others in need. Note in the passage below that Jesus did NOT say....I USED to know you, but now I do not know you. He said I NEVER knew you. Never implies that these people were fakers and they knew it though they were able to fool everyone around them and somehow they hoped to even fool the Lord by saying Lord, Lord. " Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

This at times can be a challenge.
At first some men may APPEAR to genuinely interested in hearing and sharing the word of God...

And a discussion commences...and then comes the reality....it was a trap, a snare, to get one to declare their beliefs and the other to attempt to demand proof of why they believe.

I can and do openly state my belief, and can scripturally show Gods order and way of how a man can come into belief.
But I do not have to PROVE or DEFEND my belief to anyone. Which is "typically", what many "debates" end up being.
(Also, many debates are stired over DIFFERENT understandings of Scripture)
Some men do, and some churches teach, for a man to mindfully reason and conclude the meaning (understanding) of Gods Word.
The Scripture says the complete opposite...
that mans mindful conclusion are but foolishness to God.
And the understanding of Gods Word, is not in ink on paper, but rather is given an individual, by God Himself.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Wanting to Serve ~

Becoming forgiven, (of all sin and unrighteousness), crucified (bodily), saved (restored spirit), and born again (your natural spirit being born again with Gods Seed)...

IS the ultimate Conversion of a man WITHOUT the Lord; to a man FOREVER being WITH the Lord.

Once that is accomplished; The man is therefore MADE "wholly, whole and holy"...
And forever acceptable to be entitled to enter the Lords Kingdom, as it shall be manifested on earth.

You espoused your desire to SERVE.
That is only possible AFTER a man has been MADE "wholly, whole and holy".

IOW - service is separated from becoming made WHOLE.

Service is DOING (works) that GLORIFY God.

How to KNOW what works are pleasing to God, that Glorifies Him??

Those are called PRECEPTS.

Precepts are found IN Scripture "WITHIN" Jewish Laws. Telling you WHAT the Lord LIKES and doesn't LIKE.

And for understanding;
A "precept" IN a Jewish LAW, "IS" a LAW, to the Jews; meaning "THEY" (according to the LAW, "MUST" obey the law.) "IF" they don't, it is ACCOUNTED TO THEM AS A SIN.
And then there are Jewish CURSE LAWS; which means; (like a modern PENAL LAW); which tells the (negative CONSEQUENCE) for NOT obeying the LAW.
THIS APPLIES TO....anyone who "IS" subject to the LAW; "believes" they are subject to the LAW.

A Christian is SUPPOSED to have learned they WERE NOT, ARE NOT, subject to Jewish Law.

(But you can FIND MANY, MANY Christians who will CALIM they are not (subject to/under) the LAW.....believing Jesus FULFILLED the LAW.....

BUT YET THESE SAME Christians WILL emphatically CLAIM, THEY CONTINUE TO SIN......which whether or not they understand it....THEY ARE CLAIMING they ARE SUBJECT TO/UNDER) the Jewish Law of (curses), ie the negative PENAL LAW.

Truly Jesus Fulfilled the Law.
Obviously Jesus DID NOT fulfill the Curses, (ie penal Law)...

So what's up with that? How is a Christian SUPPOSED to know whether or not THEY are subject to "curse (penal) laws"?

First one would have to understand the difference between a Jewish book of LAWS, pronounced by Moses to the People.
And a Jewish book of LAWS, for violation of Moses' Laws, that the Priests had, and from those Laws, the Priests pronounced the Mosaic Law offenders...."consequence"...ie the curse.

Ex 17:14...Moses commanded to Write a book...
Numb 5:23 The Priest commanded to Write a book...

Deut. 11:26 a blessing and a curse; both under the Law.
Man - must obey the law
Man - who doesn't obey has a curse exacted unto him under the Curse law.

When Jesus fulfilled the Law -
Also the Curse of the Law was fulfilled...BY Jesus Himself becoming a Curse (ie SIN) for us.

We WHO believe and are made WHOLE; have the blessing WITHOUT the curse.

Gal 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law;
(He) being made a curse for us.

So remembering the NT is written BY Jews TO Jews...remember ALSO the Law(S) they were historically STEEPED in. Gentile's were not, given, taught, or historically steeped in the Knowledge of the Jewish God, their Mosaic Laws, NOR their curse Laws.

Jews in the NT has a transitioning period as did the Gentiles.

Continued....

 

[Taken]

Wanting to Serve ~

Continued...

Jews had been EXPECTING their Messiah...
However Jesus did not come among them in a "LIKENESS" they EXPECTED.

He didn't SAVE their earthly body's forever.
He didn't destroy their ENEMIES.
He didn't set up an elaborate Kingdom for them only.
Yipes, he wasn't MAGESTIC, not bigger than life, with RICHES and POWER and POMP...
Many Jews could NOT believe THIS "nobody man" was THEIR GREAT MESSIAH.
And Many Jews became divided, as to how could ANY JEW beleive this "nobody man" was their Great Messiah.

Gentiles particularly were in AWE of this man.
Many quite easily accepted His miracles and teaching as beyond something earthly.
And Jesus taught, IF you believe His works, then believe IN Him, and IF you believe IN Him, believe also IN His Father, for they ARE One.

So getting on to the POINT -
A man ONCE having become made wholly, whole and holy...

There IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR THE MAN TO SERVE GOD. THERE IS NO "CURSE" PENALTY FOR NOT SERVING GOD.

WHAT THERE IS;
IS; Additional Blessing for a man WHO DOES elect to SERVE the Lord.

How to KNOW, what Service the Lord LIKES and doesn't LIKE....is in the Jewish Laws...
These are the PRECEPTS.
Do what the Lord LIKES...you shall receive more blessings.
Do what the Lord DISLIKES...you do NOT receive a curse...(ie a SIN accounted to you)....and you do NOT receive additional blessings.

One of the blessings is: "things" that apply to you while still upon the earth. For example;
Abraham was blessed, WITH wealth, WITH children he longed for, WITH land, With Gods Spirit with him....etc.

One of the blessing is: "something" that will applied to you in Heaven's "accounting".
Do works that Glorify God, you shall be called great, in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Do no such works, you shall be called least, in the Kingdom of Heaven.

ALL glorifying works are accounted IN HEAVEN, so that EACH Glorifiying Work can the man receive a blessing.

Now for a ADDITIONAL highlight.
First a man is called forgiven ~
Then called saved ~
Then called born again ~
Then called a son of God ~

If a man listens to the thoughts in his heart, (fed by Gods Spirit), over the thoughts in his mind....the man is called "having a mind like Christ".

However a man WHO serves God according to His Precepts, (which Glorifies God), the man is called PERFECT!!

Gen 6:9
Noah was accounted and called Perfect.

IN SHORT, you want to SERVE God, do so by His Precepts, without believing you are subject to Curses of the Law, for NOT serving Him according to His precepts.

God Bless,
Taken