Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[BreadOfLife]

The Lord offers SALVATION to everyone.

Any man WHO receives Salvation;
Receives it ONCE and FOREVER!

God is Faithful and True...

REACH OUT an TAKE from the Tree of Life...
And Live Forever "WITH" the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken

That's NOT what the Bible says . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[Taken]

That's NOT what the Bible says . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

I said:

The Lord offers Salvation to everyone.

Yes, it is what Scripture says;

John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven;
IF ANY MAN
Eat of this bread, he SHALL LIVE FOR EVER:
And the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give
FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD.

You grabbing Scriptures that DO NOT APPLY to what I said are MOOT.

What an oddball response. You are so desperate to be the know-it-all teacher, who thinks he has the authority to stand over his pseudo pupils with a tongue lashing of disparaging remarks.....you don't even recognize; NO ONE has solicited you to BE their "teacher"; and that you set a FALSE premise then dump your False premise on everyone; then pretend you are there to "set these pseudo pupils" on the straight and narrow AWAY FROM YOUR OWN FALSE premises. Munchausen

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Lord offers SALVATION to everyone.

Any man WHO receives Salvation;
Receives it ONCE and FOREVER!

God is Faithful and True...

REACH OUT an TAKE from the Tree of Life...
And Live Forever "WITH" the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken

Uhhhhh - that's not ALL you said.
You also told this anti-Biblical whopper:

"Any man WHO receives Salvation;
Receives it ONCE and FOREVER!"

This is a man-made lie and has NOTHING to do with the Word of God.

 

[aspen]

Uhhhhh - that's not ALL you said.
You also told this anti-Biblical whopper:

"Any man WHO receives Salvation;
Receives it ONCE and FOREVER!"

This is a man-made lie and has NOTHING to do with the Word of God.

OSAS is true - it just doesn’t happen in this life time

 

[Taken]

Uhhhhh - that's not ALL you said.
You also told this anti-Biblical whopper:

"Any man WHO receives Salvation;
Receives it ONCE and FOREVER!"

This is a man-made lie and has NOTHING to do with the Word of God.

LOL - A match for you; TWO black eyes...

Too bad you are SO lacking in Understanding.

An unsaved man IS NOT WITH the Lord forever.

A saved man IS WITH the Lord Forever.

Inasmuch as you do not comprehend the difference between Created and Authored;
Thanks for sharing you also do no comprehend what Forever means.

Matt 12:30 (Jesus speaking)
He that is not "WITH ME" IS "AGAINST ME"..

John 14:16
...another Comforter (Holy Ghost) ..
WITH YOU FOR EVER...

You have been listening to and following the wrong man, who has taught you to GO AGAINST the Word of God.

If you think you can Receive and then Lose Salvation...you should be concerned for yourself....because you are failing miserably in showing you Trust the Word of God.

 

[Taken]

OSAS is true - it just doesn’t happen in this life time

It precisely happens in "this life time" or more precisely for any individual WHO is living in his own body's life (which is his blood).

Physically dead body's do not BECOME saved.
They are Dead, and do not confess belief, nor become forgiven; saved; or born again.


God Bless,
Taken

 

[aspen]

Salvation is not recieved in a one time installment. Justification is enrollment in the school of love; sanctification, the supported course work. Redemption is graduation. You may be able to taste salvation along the way, but it is not obtained by students

 

[aspen]

It precisely happens in "this life time" or more precisely for any individual WHO is living in his own body's life (which is his blood).

Physically dead body's do not BECOME saved.
They are Dead, and do not confess belief, nor become forgiven; saved; or born again.


God Bless,
Taken

Confessing faith does not make you a perfect lover

 

[Taken]

Salvation is not recieved in a one time installment. Justification is enrollment in the school of love; sanctification, the supported course work. Redemption is graduation. You may be able to taste salvation along the way, but it is not obtained by students

You are trying to make works part of a condition to receive Salvation. That is not true.

A man is always the student. There is always more knowledge, and the understanding of the knowledge.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Confessing faith does not make you a perfect lover

Why is that something I should consider, when discussing receiving Salvation?

And BTW, a man making a confession to receive Salvation; is making a confession of belief.
Faith is a gift from God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[aspen]

Why is that something I should consider, when discussing receiving Salvation?

And BTW, a man making a confession to receive Salvation; is making a confession of belief.
Faith is a gift from God.

God Bless,
Taken

Unless you love perfectly, you are not saved

 

[APAK]

Unless you love perfectly, you are not saved

Aspen, I think you and Taken are writing over each other and I think you are both right…can I try and be a bridge of understanding?

There must be an initial enrollment and introduction to the path of salvation within our hearts and minds before realizing that we are truly saved in our new glorified bodies after graduation.

As part of this first f class we must confess our initial faith of the gospel and Jesus. We begin as a mustard seed. If we truly have germinated this seed by faith it will continue to grow. Failing to feed the seed properly with cause it to die before giving birth to a new life in Christ. We never received the spirit of God. We may need to retake the first course again if we decide to stay. Unfortunately, most leave when things become ‘tough.’ They never had hope in salvation.

Yes, I agree, OSAS is only true and realized, if we graduate to our new eternal life in the heavens. Our Father will ensure that we pass the introductory course in growing faith, to graduation. He pledged he would do this for us.

And we can also say the OSAS is true, although not realized (‘tasting’ it as you said), after we pass the introductory requirements of this new life in Christ.

Yes, we do work out our own salvation on this journey to its reality.

Yes, we do love perfectly after graduation…

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Heb 13:8]

Only God knows who is truly saved.

 

[aspen]

Aspen, I think you and Taken are writing over each other and I think you are both right…can I try and be a bridge of understanding?

There must be an initial enrollment and introduction to the path of salvation within our hearts and minds before realizing that we are truly saved in our new glorified bodies after graduation.

As part of this first f class we must confess our initial faith of the gospel and Jesus. We begin as a mustard seed. If we truly have germinated this seed by faith it will continue to grow. Failing to feed the seed properly with cause it to die before giving birth to a new life in Christ. We never received the spirit of God. We may need to retake the first course again if we decide to stay. Unfortunately, most leave when things become ‘tough.’ They never had hope in salvation.

Yes, I agree, OSAS is only true and realized, if we graduate to our new eternal life in the heavens. Our Father will ensure that we pass the introductory course in growing faith, to graduation. He pledged he would do this for us.

And we can also say the OSAS is true, although not realized (‘tasting’ it as you said), after we pass the introductory requirements of this new life in Christ.

Yes, we do work out our own salvation on this journey to its reality.

Yes, we do love perfectly after graduation…

Bless you,

APAK

Hi Apak - i appreciate your clearly written post. The only part I disagree with is, salvation has already occured without us realizing it, before death. I get what you are saying, but without loving perfectly, we can not experience salvation. For me, loving perfectly IS salvation.

 

[Taken]

Unless you love perfectly, you are not saved

And your point of telling me this?

Aspen, I think you and Taken are writing over each other and I think you are both right…can I try and be a bridge of understanding?

There must be an initial enrollment and introduction to the path of salvation within our hearts and minds before realizing that we are truly saved in our new glorified bodies after graduation.

As part of this first f class we must confess our initial faith of the gospel and Jesus. We begin as a mustard seed. If we truly have germinated this seed by faith it will continue to grow. Failing to feed the seed properly with cause it to die before giving birth to a new life in Christ. We never received the spirit of God. We may need to retake the first course again if we decide to stay. Unfortunately, most leave when things become ‘tough.’ They never had hope in salvation.

Yes, I agree, OSAS is only true and realized, if we graduate to our new eternal life in the heavens. Our Father will ensure that we pass the introductory course in growing faith, to graduation. He pledged he would do this for us.

And we can also say the OSAS is true, although not realized (‘tasting’ it as you said), after we pass the introductory requirements of this new life in Christ.

Yes, we do work out our own salvation on this journey to its reality.

Yes, we do love perfectly after graduation…

Bless you,

APAK

I do not agree with Aspen.

Aspen said:
"Salvation is NOT RECEIVED in a one time installment"

APAK ~ In trying to appease a "bridge", you relent to Aspen's tricky language; and impart some of your own.
Ie ...
"Not received in a one time installment"
"Taste Salvation"
"Initial enrollment"
"Introductory requirements"

IMO - this diverts too far away from Scripture.

ONCE a person IS Saved it is Permanent.

Accomplishing the ONCE, is based the on precise true confession of ones Belief IN God and His Word In a persons heart.

BY That ONE ACT of the Person....
The Lord Himself Accomplishes QUICKLY...
Everything, that that person IS SAVED Forever.

Afterward; there are MANY things the individual CAN DO, or NOT.
(And there are consequence for doing other things OR not)

Their SALVATION is NEVER in jeopardy to be Lost or revoked.

APAK - Salvation "realized" ?
Aspen - "tasting" Salvation ?

Vague and confusing IMO.

Salvation is something provided for ALL.
Salvation is ONLY received unto a person;
IF the person TAKES it.

The who ... who provides it is Christ Jesus.
The who ... who takes it is confessing men.
The who.... who gives it is Christ Jesus.
The who.... who receives it is confessing men
The who ... who effects it is given and received is Christ, who IS the Power of God.

Once provided, taken, given, received, effected: It is permanent and For ever.

The receiving man DOES NOT maintain or keep His Salvation...the Power of God Keeps it unto the Man Forever.

A man can not even CONFESS Belief unto the Lord, without the Lords HAND in the mix.

Meaning;
God IS LIGHT. His Word is LIGHT.

Every man WHO "HEARS" Gods word being spoken, IS a man who IS, being "enLIGHTed".

It has NOTHING to do with IF the man is believing what he hears. And everything to do with; God IS LIGHT, and Hearing His Word IS "enLIGHTenment".

A man being "enLIGHTened", is a man WHO is Hearing the Word of God.

A man who "continues" Hearing ... begins Receiving a gift from God, CALLED FAITH.

That is NOT the act of Salvation (of the soul),
Nor is it the act of Quickening the mans spirit, (ie born again).

It is the act of "enLIGHTening", and the Lord giving the man the "GIFT" of faith.

No confession has been made. The man is hearing, learning, being enLIGHTened, being given measure of faith from God.

At this point, the man has his own FREEWILL, to continue hearing, continue receiving enlightenment, continue receiving faith......
OR NOT. The man has made NO commitment, he can walk away, not believe what he has heard, stop receiving enlightenment, stop receiving faith....

And he thus, has FALLEN FROM FAITH.
The SALVATION provided for Him, IS IN JEOPARDY, being LOST to Him......

Because he NEVER TOOK His Savaltion, By making a Confession of Belief.

God Provides. Man must Take. Once a man TAKES the consequence for Taking is Forever.
Take your Salvation, the consequence IS, it is yours forever.

Just as God Provided a Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

NO ONE, picked the fruit and stuffed it in Eves Mouth, or Adams Mouth.

Eve REACHED OUT and TOOK, what God Provided. Then Eve gave to Adam and he Took what Eve gave him.

It's a LESSON. God Provides. Men Take.
And briefly more deeply. God Provides lots of things. Some things He has Provided He encourages men TO TAKE. And some things He has Provided He discourages for men TO TAKE. And men have the Freewill to Decide.
And they shall HAVE the burden of the consequences FOR Which choices they make.

God created good, and repeatedly teaches for men to TAKE IT.

God created evil, and repeatedly teaches for men to NOT TAKE IT.

A man who chooses to NOT TAKE Salvation -
Their consequence is to to FOREVER be WITHOUT the Lord; AND miss out on Blessing and Gifts while in their natural life and thereafter of hardships without Gods comfort.

A man who chooses TO TAKE Salvation-
Their consequence is to be FOREVER WITH the Lord: AND receive Blessing, Gifts, internal peace, Comforts during hardships in their natural life; and persecutions during their natural life.

ONCE a man HAS received Salvation. There IS much more He can do; which is works and Service unto the Lord.
Other men MAY or MAY not see the mans works and service....and think highly of the man, or criticize the man, or gossip about the man, etc.

ALL irrelevant. Works and Service of a man, unto the Lord; is by and through what the Lord decides and empowers the man to work and serve in the manner, according to the Lord Himself.

If one desires to know another BY THEIR FRUITS....

Their Fruits WILL BE REVEALED to another BY the one confessing THEY hearfully Believe in thee Lord God Almighty.

They Serve ONE God, ONE Master, ONE Spirit.
And the Service unto thee ONE God, ONE Master, ONE Spirit, is determined BY their ONE God, ONE, Master, ONE Spirit....
Not other men.

The "tasting", the "enrollment", the "initial"...
Lends to confusion.

No one is "KIND OF"
Forgiven or converted or free from Sin or Saved or Born Again or a son of God.

No one "WHO HAS RECEIVED"
Forgiveness, been freed from Sin, been Saved, been Born Again or become a son of God.....is in Jeopardy of EVER Losing that.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What?
This thread hasn't hit a thousand posts yet?
OSAS
No doubt about it.
John 10:28;
No one can prove it wrong.

 

[APAK]

And your point of telling me this?



I do not agree with Aspen.



APAK ~ In trying to appease a "bridge", you relent to Aspen's tricky language; and impart some of your own.
Ie ...
"Not received in a one time installment"
"Taste Salvation"
"Initial enrollment"
"Introductory requirements"

IMO - this diverts too far away from Scripture.

ONCE a person IS Saved it is Permanent.

Accomplishing the ONCE, is based the on precise true confession of ones Belief IN God and His Word In a persons heart.

BY That ONE ACT of the Person....
The Lord Himself Accomplishes QUICKLY...
Everything, that that person IS SAVED Forever.

Afterward; there are MANY things the individual CAN DO, or NOT.
(And there are consequence for doing other things OR not)

Their SALVATION is NEVER in jeopardy to be Lost or revoked.

APAK - Salvation "realized" ?
Aspen - "tasting" Salvation ?

Vague and confusing IMO.

Salvation is something provided for ALL.
Salvation is ONLY received unto a person;
IF the person TAKES it.

The who ... who provides it is Christ Jesus.
The who ... who takes it is confessing men.
The who.... who gives it is Christ Jesus.
The who.... who receives it is confessing men
The who ... who effects it is given and received is Christ, who IS the Power of God.

Once provided, taken, given, received, effected: It is permanent and For ever.

The receiving man DOES NOT maintain or keep His Salvation...the Power of God Keeps it unto the Man Forever.

A man can not even CONFESS Belief unto the Lord, without the Lords HAND in the mix.

Meaning;
God IS LIGHT. His Word is LIGHT.

Every man WHO "HEARS" Gods word being spoken, IS a man who IS, being "enLIGHTed".

It has NOTHING to do with IF the man is believing what he hears. And everything to do with; God IS LIGHT, and Hearing His Word IS "enLIGHTenment".

A man being "enLIGHTened", is a man WHO is Hearing the Word of God.

A man who "continues" Hearing ... begins Receiving a gift from God, CALLED FAITH.

That is NOT the act of Salvation (of the soul),
Nor is it the act of Quickening the mans spirit, (ie born again).

It is the act of "enLIGHTening", and the Lord giving the man the "GIFT" of faith.

No confession has been made. The man is hearing, learning, being enLIGHTened, being given measure of faith from God.

At this point, the man has his own FREEWILL, to continue hearing, continue receiving enlightenment, continue receiving faith......
OR NOT. The man has made NO commitment, he can walk away, not believe what he has heard, stop receiving enlightenment, stop receiving faith....

And he thus, has FALLEN FROM FAITH.
The SALVATION provided for Him, IS IN JEOPARDY, being LOST to Him......

Because he NEVER TOOK His Savaltion, By making a Confession of Belief.

God Provides. Man must Take. Once a man TAKES the consequence for Taking is Forever.
Take your Salvation, the consequence IS, it is yours forever.

Just as God Provided a Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

NO ONE, picked the fruit and stuffed it in Eves Mouth, or Adams Mouth.

Eve REACHED OUT and TOOK, what God Provided. Then Eve gave to Adam and he Took what Eve gave him.

It's a LESSON. God Provides. Men Take.
And briefly more deeply. God Provides lots of things. Some things He has Provided He encourages men TO TAKE. And some things He has Provided He discourages for men TO TAKE. And men have the Freewill to Decide.
And they shall HAVE the burden of the consequences FOR Which choices they make.

God created good, and repeatedly teaches for men to TAKE IT.

God created evil, and repeatedly teaches for men to NOT TAKE IT.

A man who chooses to NOT TAKE Salvation -
Their consequence is to to FOREVER be WITHOUT the Lord; AND miss out on Blessing and Gifts while in their natural life and thereafter of hardships without Gods comfort.

A man who chooses TO TAKE Salvation-
Their consequence is to be FOREVER WITH the Lord: AND receive Blessing, Gifts, internal peace, Comforts during hardships in their natural life; and persecutions during their natural life.

ONCE a man HAS received Salvation. There IS much more He can do; which is works and Service unto the Lord.
Other men MAY or MAY not see the mans works and service....and think highly of the man, or criticize the man, or gossip about the man, etc.

ALL irrelevant. Works and Service of a man, unto the Lord; is by and through what the Lord decides and empowers the man to work and serve in the manner, according to the Lord Himself.

If one desires to know another BY THEIR FRUITS....

Their Fruits WILL BE REVEALED to another BY the one confessing THEY hearfully Believe in thee Lord God Almighty.

They Serve ONE God, ONE Master, ONE Spirit.
And the Service unto thee ONE God, ONE Master, ONE Spirit, is determined BY their ONE God, ONE, Master, ONE Spirit....
Not other men.

The "tasting", the "enrollment", the "initial"...
Lends to confusion.

No one is "KIND OF"
Forgiven or converted or free from Sin or Saved or Born Again or a son of God.

No one "WHO HAS RECEIVED"
Forgiveness, been freed from Sin, been Saved, been Born Again or become a son of God.....is in Jeopardy of EVER Losing that.

God Bless,
Taken

Taken: I think you might want to read what I wrote again. I've seen this reply of yours several times before. You are not saying any thing different here.

I believe the point that you are not grasping in that Salvation is NOT FULLY REALIZED until graduation until you own resurrection. Why cannot you understand that? You keep talking of the initial confession of faith etc, and that you seem to think that you realize it a that point in time. You are still living and breathing on this earth and are walking in spirit TO salvation. You don't have it YET....right? How can you realize the full effect of it now? it is impossible...Of course you are not losing it, you will GET it...I'm still growing and tasting SALVATION as I grow in faith....SAVE means the transformation of the body and soul/spirit to a new body and soul/spirit. YOU CANNNOT GET THAT WHILE ON THE EARTH. Your ticket for salvation is secure though until that time.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Taken: I think you might want to read what I wrote again. I've seen this reply of yours several times before. You are not saying any thing different here.

I believe the point that you are not grasping in that Salvation is NOT FULLY REALIZED until graduation until you own resurrection. Why cannot you understand that? You keep talking of the initial confession of faith etc, and that you seem to think that you realize it a that point in time. You are still living and breathing on this earth and are walking in spirit TO salvation. You don't have it YET....right? How can you realize the full effect of it now? it is impossible...Of course you are not losing it, you will GET it...I'm still growing and tasting SALVATION as I grow in faith....SAVE means the transformation of the body and soul/spirit to a new body and soul/spirit. YOU CANNNOT GET THAT WHILE ON THE EARTH. Your ticket for salvation is secure though until that time.

Bless you,

APAK

Doesn't matter.
You either know you are saved or you don't.
Plenty of people in Scripture knew they were saved before they died.
If you are saved, the Holy Spirit will never let go of you.

 

[APAK]

Hi Apak - i appreciate your clearly written post. The only part I disagree with is, salvation has already occured without us realizing it, before death. I get what you are saying, but without loving perfectly, we can not experience salvation. For me, loving perfectly IS salvation.

aspen: I guess the confusion is over the meaning of when salvation is realized. That is the crux of it.

When I came to the Lord when I was 18-19 yrs old I really experienced a change in mind and attitude towards myself, family and spiritual things and a bias to scripture. I knew at time I was saved or recognized in heart and mind that God had provided me will the hope of salvation in the future, not yet fully realized at that time and today. I experienced and 'tasted' the spirit as I do partake today. My faith germinate dthe seed of life within me. I was on my way.

So your version of salvation mean you have fully experienced all this already. I believe that Taken means the same thing then, or am I confused on that point as well? As for me I'm still experiencing the journey, the walk of salvation until I pass to the resurrection of by being to the glorified state of salvation promised by my Father in the heavens.

So if salvation is fully realized at the moment of rebirth, whilst on earth, what does being saved in a new body and spirit in the heavens mean? Is the first called the earth heaven salvation event and the other called the heaven salvation event? It seems we are making two definitions of salvation.

Nevertheless, I believe I do understand your version ( and I believe it is Taken's version as well) although I would not used it -it is confusing to me. I want to align my definition fully with scripture. One clue as to why I would not use are those verses that speak of the 'hope of salvation' after becoming a believer. Your version cannot account for this meaning.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Rollo Tamasi]