Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[BreadOfLife]

Uh - you are without understanding.
Jesus offering His body and blood; provided the WAY for a man to be made WHOLE;
A man's WHOLE to become Forgiven.
A man's body to become Dead to SIN,
A man's soul to become restored and saved.
A man's spirit to become quickened.
A man's glorifying works to be rewarded.
A man's unglorifying works to be burned.
You are without understanding.
A man WHO HAS, called on the Lord, with True belief in his heart ~
HAS become made WHOLE.
His body is dead to sin.
His soul is restored and saved to forever life.
His spirit is quickened to forever life.
Not a newsflash - And Already noted;
The BODY is DEAD, and JUSTIFIED...
The body SHALL BE RAISED IN A GLORIOUS Body.

Ding, ding, ding,
The raising of a Justified Body;
IS raised IN a Glorious Body;
BY being Baptized WITH FIRE;
Purified BY the Lord God, who IS FIRE!
It is NOT suffering; It IS glorification by Fire purifying the Body....BECAUSE IT was already JUSTIFIED!
And Cor 3 is speaking of WORKS!
Good Works SHALL be rewarded
Not good Works shall be Burned.
Not good Works Burning, has NO effect on the Salvation of the mans SOUL, OR, the Body being Glorified!

Wrong . . .

1 Cor. 3:15
If anyone's work is burned up, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

And the "Body" is not "dead", Einstein. If it were - you wouldn't be typing these asinine posts.
The flesh being "dead" simply means that we are not eternally subject to it in Christ.

Peter spoke wisely of YOU when he wrote:
2 Pet. 3:16
There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Scripture has revealed;
The Lord IS TRUE, he does not Lie.

"IF" a man has CONFESSED true BELIEF from his Heart, TO the Lord....the Lord SHALL forgive the man his sins and KEEP the man WITH Him Forever.
Period!

You attempting to claim the Lord is a liar;
IS on you.
You attempting to claim it is "FORCE", against the will of a man, WHO HIMSELF made the Choice;
IS Wrong.
It is not FORCE ...
It IS God KEEPING HIS WORD!
More silly Catholic teaching....pfft!

WRONG again.

I already gave you almost a DOZEN verses that say the exact opposite.
As I keep telling you - YOUR blunder is that you cherry-pick Scripture. This is a BEGINNER'S mistake.

As long as you continue to take verses OUT of context - you'll always wind up perverting the Word of God like you do now . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

So here we have another 'oracle' blatantly contradicting the word of God. 1 Cor. 3:12-15 says absolutely zilch about "final purification" being a requirement to be saved. Paul says belief in Jesus Christ as the foundation is the only requirement for one to be saved. You on the other hand, with your catholic dogma, seek to strip away that foundation. I'm not surprised, since this is what cults typically do, mixing in sanctification with justification in order for one to be saved. Paul says justification, then "sanctification", whereas you and others claim sanctification AND justification for one to be saved. And I'm not concerned at all about going to heaven since scripture no where states that heaven will be our final destination anyway. Rev 21:27 is about New Jerusalem on the new earth, NOT heaven.

Your remark above in RED simply shows that you are not familiar with the OT symbol of God as the "Great Refiner."

A refiner is someone who takes the raw material for metal and actually gets the gold and silver and iron from that material - and he does it with FIRE. We see in Malalchi 3:3, Jeremiah 6:27-30, Ezekiel 22:18, Psalm 119:119, Psalm 37:20, Zech. 13:9, Isa 48:10, where God is the Refiner who burns away the impurities to get to the precious metal – the gold and silver.

Oh, and NOBODY said that final purification is a "requirement", so get your story straight.
It is a requirement for SOME - probably most - but not "ALL."

 

[BreadOfLife]

An utterly False claim.
Your thoughts, Your idea, Your invention, Your terms....
Be a big boy and own Your OWN thoughts, ideas, invention, terms, god you have made up.

And YOU are proposing a "god" who makes us stay with him and forces his love on us. That's what a rapist does - not God.

MY God - the God of Scripture - gives us a free will to stay with him or to walk away.
The Prodigal Son walked away from his Father - and his Father let him go. He eventually came back because of hard times - otherwise, he would have stayed away.

 

[Helen]

Well, first of all - I have been BEGGING one of you to provide me with a verse that teaches OSAS - to no avail.
NOWHERE do we read that you are saved "forever" after having been born again - unless you cherry-pick verses OUT of context.

You posted Romans 8:9, which says:
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we SHALL BE saved from wrath through him.

I totally agree. We WILL BE saved - IF we endure in faith to the end.
You cannot hope to be saved if you do NOT endure in faith.

Then you completely misused 1 Cor. 3:12-15, where Paul explains the process of final purification (Purgation) before entering Heaven.
He is talking about people who will suffer through purification before being "Saved". This is necessary because Rev. 21:27 states that NOTHING impure or unclean can enter Heaven.

Hey BOL, your endurance in arguing the point still amazes me.

I myself am not only a believer in once saved always saved, but I am also a believer in- "the restoration of all things." And God's final victory.
What I call "the grater grace."

You ask for scriptural proof . There is no such thing...but people will forever argue for the sake of it...as if they have "the final proof " in some scripture or another. They don't!
Any true bible reader knows that anything and any doctrine can be " proved" by many scriptures, and then, just as easily be "proved" oppositely with just as viable scriptures.

Today I didn't do much more on the Site than to just read all the threads, and read all the posts in them.
Some actually make me want to vomit.
Some people are so sure of themselves. And yes , I emphasize "of themselves" ...they pick scriptures out and declare that by quoting "these verses" they themselves are the mouth of God....and what they say is totally 100% correct.
Very few on here write their posts with "IMO" or "this is what I believe", some of the self confidence amazes me....... but I am wandering here, sorry.
Just saying...there is no hard and fast answer either way.

I believe -
"He saved us, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy...that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7) And again, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become the children of God...who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, but of God." (Jn.1:12-13) And again, "For by grace are you saved through faith, and THAT not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Eph.2:8-9) And again, "So then, it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. ...And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace..." (Rom.9:16; 11:5-6) And Many many more verses.

But I admit there are many many verses that appear to contradict those verses. Verses that seem to turn the eternal security verses on their heads.

So, how did I personally reconcile ALL scripture...My answer is I don't try...I trust.
I trust God , "By faith and by faith alone."
I had a glimpse in the 80's of the Father heart of God.
I have a glimpse of The Great Love of God... I took a step over the line , and on my knees I told God that I would never doubt Him or His love again ....and, I would die believing that as in Adam all mankind died, thus in Christ shall all mankind be made alive.
I took God Himself 'by faith'.
Other people can believe about Him what they like...I know what I
believe....in that I will stand or fall. My choice.

But as for all these people ( including you. )
Who demand, " Give me bible proof"... you will find just as many scriptures to challenge it. That is why you don't see me in all the endless threads on
"lets see who can out scripture whom." Total waste of time.
Anyone can cherry pick their favourite scriptures that supports what they believe, and any one else can just as easily shoot that cherry picked scripture down with a different verse! It's no more than a game.

That is just my story and my view.
===========
EDIT:-
Case in point...I just left this thread after posting and went to the next one on my list for reading...guess what I read?

Quote :- < No, you haven't given many Scriptures, and I have explained the Scriptures you have given to show your error. > ( with different scriptures....)
It's all one big circus....

 

[Heb 13:8]

next time, just send me a private message to tell me that I missed your post . . .

ok

No - they're not. To redeem something is to PAY for it. that's why we have those "Redemption" labels on plastic bottles and aluminum cans. Jesus paid (redeemed) the price for our sins (1 Cor. 6:20, 1 Pet. 1:18), .We are only forgiven when we repent of our sin (Acts 2:38).

Well, plastic bottles and cans are material things and do not have the ability to forgive anything. Peter is referring to getting saved, coming to faith in Jesus Christ. This is a one time event, BOL.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And apparently - YOU have a difficult time with English. Next time you cash in some aluminum cans - as the person at the counter if you are "saving" them or if THEY are redeeming (buying) them with cash.

Well, let's thank God that we didn't hang aluminum cans on the cross.

As for the verses you provided - NONE of them says that redemption and salvation are the same thing.

Now you're changing it from redemption and forgiveness to redemption and salvation?

 

[mjrhealth]

Thanks for yet another impotent NON-answer . . .

He speaks wow.

 

[Taken]

No - YOU said that EVERYONE who calls on the name of Christ will be saved.
Just showing you that you are in conflict with Scripture . . .

Uh huh.
However you do not follow or comprehend the conversation.

When something IS already established it is established.

How many times do you have to be told and reminded EVERYONE WHO calls on the Lord; IS speaking of HE WHO;
Believes in his heart?

 

[Taken]

Rape is sin, and God is without sin.
Sanctification and discipline comes from love not rape.
Do you see how twisted the devil is?

There is no Opposite of God, Period.

However there is opposition in words, a play on words if you will.

Ever notice?...

To have the Lord BE WITH a man is for the man TO "LIVE".

For a man to BE WITHOUT a man is for the man TO BE "EVIL" (live spelled backwards).

And the same with "LIVED"..
And "LIVED" (spelled backwards) is "DEVIL".

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

How so?

How? Steeped in Catholic dogma.
Why? Lack of spiritual understanding.

 

[mjrhealth]

some of the self confidence amazes me

if we have no confidence in God and His ability to save us, we have no right to call ourselves christians. and what you see is just that, our all powerfull God reduced to a fool.

Did Jesus not say

Luk_18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

sometimes I wonder, doesnt seem to be much going around, besides, for some it is, in Him, we have our confidence, we know full well we cannot save ourselves.

God bless

 

[Taken]

And AGAIN, your blunder is that you cherry-pick Scripture.
A couple of chapters earlier - John says the following:

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

No - you have YET to show me a single verse - in CONTEXT - that says we are saved forever.
Context is NOT your friend . . .

Lol - "cherry picking" How foolish to not know "cherry picking" is the term used by people who DO NOT KNOW, it is Gods precise method for DIVIDING the Word of Truth.

Unlike you who does not KNOW, 'ONCE" something "in a man" IS ACCOMPLISHED, it is FINISHED; It does not require REPEATING;
And Scripture that speaks to man WHO IS NOT ACCOMPLISHED: such Scriptures NO LONGER APPLY!

Lol - "a single verse" ? Again how foolish to not know "YOU" do not set the premise of "HOW" the Lord "reveals and teaches His Word". More often than not a single verse reveals things that do and do not apply to a single person.

WHEN the Lord HAS accomplished IN A MAN: it is FOREVER.

YOU can believe it OR NOT.

Many on this forum BELIEVE what the Lord HAS ACCOMPLISHED, IS accomplished.

You on the other hand are attempting to teach and argue AGAINST the TRUTH;
And your teaching is being repeatedly Rejected.

 

[Taken]

Wrong . . .

No, not wrong.
Already addressed and told you multiple times; If a man does not do works glorifying to God, he shall lose rewards.

1 Cor. 3:15

If anyone's work is burned up, HE WILL SUFFER LOSS, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Yep, already told you multiple times; the man who IS SAVED, IS SAVED forever, regardless of HIS WORKS....Just as Scripture says; and you teach otherwise.

And the "Body" is not "dead", Einstein.

LOL - still VOID of understanding.

Noone cares about YOUR carnal minded understanding.

Adults are here discussing SPIRITUAL Things, and the Accomplishments of a SPIRIT God making SPIRITUAL and FOREVER changes within a terrestrial man.

You ARE a terrestrial man, BORN in SIN.
You CLAIM the Lord spiritually SAVED YOU, but not really.
You CLAIM the Lord has spiritually MADE changes WITHIN YOU,
but not really.

I also "WAS" BORN in SIN.
However I called on the Lord, and "I" TRUST HE IS TRUE AND FAITHFUL.
I "WAS" crucified with the Lord;
I "WAS" BORN "OF" God.
I CAN NO LONGER SIN.
My OLD MAN IS DEAD.

Your OLD MAN IS ALIVE, and teaching, AGAINST the Word of God every time YOU give your Carnal Minded teaching about Spiritual things.

If it were - you wouldn't be typing these asinine posts.

You should be learning instead of attempting to teach. Your teaching is a fail.

The flesh being "dead" simply means that we are not eternally subject to it in Christ.

Thanks for sharing your simple carnally minded explanation.

I'll ignore you, and instead trust the Knowledge in Scriptures I have "cherry picked" through for the purpose of the OLD Man being DEAD.

Peter spoke wisely of YOU when he wrote:
2 Pet. 3:16
There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

Absolutely Some of the Knowledge in Scripture is hard to Understand; and WHY Spiritual Wisdom is that only God Himself gives HIS Understanding of His Word...
And precisely WHY your endless and repetitive "carnal understanding" IS A FAIL and MOOT to consider.

 

[Taken]

WRONG again.

Nope, that would be you.

I already gave you almost a DOZEN verses that say the exact opposite.

Still without Understanding.

You gave VERSES about men receiving KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God and being warned to not DEFLECT from the KNOWLEDGE.

"YOU" made them already "SAVED"...

Sorry pal, "YOU" don't have the "POWER" to have declared them "SAVED".

That is SIMPLY "YOUR" erroneous teaching.

As I keep telling you - YOUR blunder is that you cherry-pick Scripture. This is a BEGINNER'S mistake.

No.
A beginners MISTAKE, is to NOT TRUST ALL Scripture is true.

A beginners MISTAKE, is to NOT KNOW HOW TO DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH.

A CONNIVING persons MISTAKE, is to Change Gods Words, to mean something False, then
USE "THEIR" terms in an attempt to make themselves correct and others wrong.

God says to DIVIDE the Word of TRUTH.
You CHANGE that to "cherry-picking", then call it Wrong.
God says to DIVIDE the Word of TRUTH.

I ELECT to DO as God Teaches.
And I ELECT to Ignore your conniving teaching.

As long as you continue to take verses OUT of context - you'll always wind up perverting the Word of God like you do now . . .

Wrong.
YOU are the one WHO learns the Understanding from the "your MIND" and the "MINDS of men and TEACH it applies to Scripture.

YOU are the one WHO teaches...AGAINST the Word of God.
YOU are the one WITHOUT Spiritual Wisdom and Spiritual Understanding.
YOU are the one WHO repeatedly gives Catholic MINDFUL Understanding, as you were taught.

No one cares what YOUR mind concludes, or your Pope.

 

[Taken]

And YOU are proposing a "god" who makes us stay with him and forces his love on us.

False.
I speak the Truth.
Thee Lord God Almighty loves His creations.
Thee Lord God Almighty speaks the Truth.
Thee Lord God Almighty KEEPS forever WITH HIM, every man who heartfully elects to Believe IN HIM.

That's what a rapist does - not God.

I wouldn't know about that.
You are the one who made up a "god" that you said "forces" and "rapes".
Those are your thoughts, your words, YOU OWN THEM.

My

God - the God of Scripture - gives us a free will to stay with him or to walk away.

My God gave me FREEWILL, to elect to submit my LIFE to HIM, or not.

I chose to submit my LIFE TO HIM, and MY GOD is FAITHFUL TO HIS WORD, that FOREVER, He SHALL KEEP MY LIFE WITH HIM.

The Prodigal Son walked away from his Father - and his Father let him go. He eventually came back because of hard times - otherwise, he would have stayed away.

Uh huh. And so? He wasn't SAVED. Of course he could WALK AWAY!

The prodigal son is a parallel to men WHO begin Learning ABOUT the Lord, "HEARING" and "LEARNING" the 'KNOWLEDGE' of HIS WORD......then STOP HEARING....and set their EYES GAZING UPON WEALTH!

The prodigal son; LEFT HEARING the "KNOWLEDGE" of the Lord.
The prodigal son; had a bank roll of money of his inheritance from his father.
The prodigal son; Squandered away;
his MONEY...and DID NOT KEEP in remembrance the KNOWLEDGE of the Lord.

You see the sons return to his father;
IN THE CARNAL SENSE. Oh, poor son, OUT OF MONEY, boo hoo, run to daddy.

Whereas the SPIRITUAL UNDESTANDING HAS nothing to do with MONEY!

The SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING HAS everything to do with the son RETURNING to where he was receiving Gods KNOWLEDGE of Gods WORD!

You understand CARNALLY. Everything you teach rests on the CARNAL understanding.

Gods WISDOM is NOT about FEEDING a mans purse or stomach, but rather about FEEDING the man Spiritually WHO IS poor IN SPIRIT!

You are like the sons, brother, who also understood carnally, and was jealous.

The father was elated, didn't care about the money, but did care his son was back, positioned to be Fed By the Knowledge of the Lord.

 

[Helen]

Two wrongs....do not equal being right!!

 

[Taken]

So here we have another 'oracle' blatantly contradicting the word of God. 1 Cor. 3:12-15 says absolutely zilch about "final purification" being a requirement to be saved. Paul says belief in Jesus Christ as the foundation is the only requirement for one to be saved.

He is WITHOUT understanding.

Salvation IS accomplished WHEN a man receives Forgiveness;
Receives a Restored soul;
Receives a Quickened spirit;

MEN "wait" to "SEE" the manifestation of their BODY'S glorification;

BOL, is one who has to "WAIT" to "SEE", BEFORE he can BELIEVE it is "already Accomplished".

He teaches....saved...."BUT" not saved.
He teaches....saved and Remains SAVED, "with a condition."

There IS NO condition for a SAVED MAN to Remain Saved....It is Accomplished ONCE and KEPT FOREVER, by Gods indwelling Power.

BOL is void of understanding....

BOL brings up men LOSING their Salvation...
First BOL "changes" the FACTS.

The FACTS reveal, men are learning the Knowledge of the Word of God;
The FACTS reveal, there IS security in the Word of God.
The FACTS reveal, men are being WARNED to not deflect from the Knowledge of the Word of God.

And BOL, in his own ignorance, completely "changes" men LEARING ABOUT the Word of God....TO the men HAVING become SAVED; which IS FALSE.

Learning and believing the Word of God;
IS NOT receiving Salvation, as BOL does not comprehend.
Learning and believing the Word of God;
IS PREPARING the man TO RECEIVE Salvation.

And precisely WHY, men learning, were being WARNED; to NOT DEFLECT from Learning and Beleiving the Word of God.

Further BOL makes receiving Salvation Conditional on "a man enduring to the end".

More of his LACK of understanding.

BOL acts like Jesus' teaching was ONLY to Gentiles. WHOOPS!

Jesus spent the majority of speaking His doctrine to JEWS!

JEWS WHO, for centuries were SUBJECT to the "positive" laws AND the "negative" curse laws (the sin laws, and the consequences of the curses for VIOLATING the "positive" laws).

JESUS Himself, took upon His OWN body, the SIN; and the SIN of the World DIED with HIS BODY.
Jesus Himself, BY KILLING the SINS of the World, OVERCAME the consequence (curse) of SIN.
Jesus Himself, FORGIVES the SIN of EVERY MAN.
Jesus Himself, BY OVERCOMING the consequence (curse) of SIN....
REDEEMED EVERY MEN FROM the Curse of Sin.

NOW the Condition, which has already been ESTABLISHED, repeatedly IN Scripture and ON this forum...

The CONDITION, is pursuint to the MAN!
What JESUS DID; IS accomplished.
Who Jesus DID IT FOR; IS the whole World.

But anyone with an ounce of grey matter; WOULD have, SHOULD have, Already understood.... the INDIVIDUAL man;
MUST decide and choose;
"TO" Believe and Trust and Accept...
WHAT Jesus DID; He did, Is True, And Is EVERY man WHO believes, trusts and accepts;
IS the EVERY MAN WHO becomes SAVED, Quickened, and SHALL receive a glorified body.

And anyone with an ounce of grey matter;
SHOULD know.....the majority of the Jews, REJECTED Jesus' Teaching, didn't believe Him, didn't trust Him, didn't Accept becoming Saved and Born again.

THEY must "endure" to the END, "BY" doing the same as their forefathers....
Obeying their LAWS that govern their Religious Doctrine.
REPEATEDLY seek forgiveness for disobeying their Laws.

"IF" they continue to ENDURE, 'til their own physical ending...."THEY" shall BE saved, just as their forefathers WHO Continued in their laws and repeatedly asking for forgiveness.

A man WHO has SUBMITTED TO THE Lord; does not WAIT to the end of their life to RECEIVE their Salvation!

BOL severely LACKS "common sense understaning".... Constantly does not consider the parties involved in Scriptural text.

BOL endlessly attempt to APPLY to a man, what DOES NOT Apply to a man....then screams the other man is wrong for not agreeing with "him".

BOL is in a constant state of confusion...
Saved, not saved.
Subject to the Lord Jesus, but also subject to the Laws of Jews.

I, on the other hand am born of God, can not sin, because I am born of God, and have No consequence for any sin.

God Bless you Brother in Christ,
Taken

 

[Helen]

I, on the other hand am born of God, can not sin, because I am born of God, and have No consequence for any sin.

So you say!
I can quote the " lets quote verses game too"

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. "

It is not "you" who cannot sin, of course you can!!
It is the Christ within.

Easy to say that "you cannot sin" who can witness that.
....we don't live with you and see you 24/7.
I can say on this forum that I am 5'6" and a shapely blond, but I am not, however much I may "say" it!!

So, by what you say here you are already perfected. Well good for you!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well, plastic bottles and cans are material things and do not have the ability to forgive anything. Peter is referring to getting saved, coming to faith in Jesus Christ. This is a one time event, BOL.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This verse is speaking about SALVATION - and NOT redemption.
EVERYBODY was redeemed (paid for) at Calvary - but NOT everybody will be saved because they will not cooperate with God's grace.

Well, let's thank God that we didn't hang aluminum cans on the cross.

And I only used that comparison to show you that you are conflating Redemption with Salvation.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Uh huh.
However you do not follow or comprehend the conversation.

When something IS already established it is established.

How many times do you have to be told and reminded EVERYONE WHO calls on the Lord; IS speaking of HE WHO;
Believes in his heart?

Uh huh - just like the people in the following verses believed with their hearts - and WALKED AWAY . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet.r 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)