Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[GodsGrace]

this is imo pretty clearly a Mithraist perspective of heaven as a place, "Valhalla" or wherever, that can only be attained after death. The (Roman) cult of Sol Invictus came from this also, and the Roman Emperors joined it with "Christianity." But if the kingdom of heaven is within you or beside you, see, these are both available right now, right.

Sure it's within us and by us and available to us right now!
I've said this many times.
Jesus came to save us and also to teach us about the Kingdom of God right here on earth.

 

[GodsGrace]

so we say anyway, out of one side of our mouths, or at least at others' expense, yes
seems to be how it generally works anyway

"having fun with no money" is a great test for this imo

The great test is to be joyful even with no money.
Having fun with no money is not possible because it's necessary to have an abode and to eat every day. Some money is necessary.
Anyway, I'm not a big believer in happiness --- it's fleeting.
I like joy much better -- it's more permanent.

 

[Taken]

Not under the law anymore. It is embedded in my heart. And all that Christ desires I will know in my heart.

How great is God!...more that we know

APAK

Amen! And amen you understand you are not under the law, and WHAT that means.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Our ego won't be going to heaven. We're not even supposed to have one here, but maybe we all do --- maybe just a little bit?

Have you been following along?
Someone brought up being sealed in the Holy Spirit.
Sealing is like an "earnest" or a down payment for something that has to be paid in full --- at the end of life. The payment is that we obey Jesus. If we make all payments, at the end we get our "home".
(I like that analogy)

SEALED, is not like "earnest" down payment.

SEALED, is belongs to the Lord and can only be unsealed by the Lord.

When a man IS IN Christ. His book of Life contains YOUR NAME. Only He can open His book, and CLAIM the men whose NAMES are in His Book of Life.

FYI, His book contains the names of men who subjected themselves TO Him. They ARE Sealed unto Christ the Lord Jesus, their God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Sanctified - not a process
Sanctified is an ACT of the Lord To a man that Confessed Heart felt belief in Him.

1 Cor 1:2

Sealed - not a process
Sealed is an ACT of the Lord recording the name of a man that Confessed Heart felt belief in Him.

Rev 21:27

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

If you ARE KEEPING a law, YOU ARE UNDER the LAW.

not true, as explained too many places in the NT for me to bother reiterating, wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

Not under the law anymore. It is embedded in my heart. And all that Christ desires I will know in my heart.

How great is God!...more that we know

APAK

the heart is deceitful above all things

 

[bbyrd009]

maybe just a little bit?

ya, i doubt the id is looking for a payout

 

[bbyrd009]

Someone brought up being sealed in the Holy Spirit.
Sealing is like an "earnest" or a down payment for something that has to be paid in full --- at the end of life. The payment is that we obey Jesus. If we make all payments, at the end we get our "home".
(I like that analogy)

it is an excellent Mithraist perspective, and i have no problem with Mithraists personally.

the reality is made perfectly plain in many parables, Jacob and Esau, etc but of course Pastor can only encourage us to compare ourselves with Jacob (He Will Supplant, A Heeler, One Who Trips Up or Takes Hold By The Heel), not Esau (Doer, Edom, Seir).
The truth is that we are Edom (Adam) willing to give up our birthright (earth) for a bowl of "red stuff" provided by Jacob, who deceives to get our inheritance, most artfully stated as him putting on lamb's wool.

so imo i would first be asking anyone who thinks they know what "sealed by the spirit" means if they grasp anything else along these lines, and go from there.

 

[Taken]

not true, as explained too many places in the NT for me to bother reiterating, wadr

Disagree. NT Jews were being taught HOW they were being redeemed from being under the law. A Jew WAS Under the Law, UNTIL he was redeemed BY the Lord FROM being under the Law. And many Jews still spoke as if they were still under the law.

It was not an easy concept for them to learn;
Just as it is not an easy concept for Christians to learn they were not, are not, under the law; but continue to claim they violate the law.

It is in the Jews case, in a Christians case, failing to understand.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Having fun with no money is not possible because it's necessary to have an abode and to eat every day. Some money is necessary.

well, i haven't had any in about 20 years or so; not looking for any, either. Go with what you know

 

[bbyrd009]

Just as it is not an easy concept for Christians to learn they were not, are not, under the law; but continue to claim they violate the law.

It is in the Jews case, in a Christians case, failing to understand.

well, dunno what to tell you; you must obey the law, and you cannot Quote "you don't have to obey the law" from anywhere that i am aware of. Christ, Paul, James and even Peter make this abundantly plain.

"Obeying the law" is not "under the law," that is strictly a believers' misconception. Two completely diff concepts, that might be better illuminated the next time your house gets robbed or your car gets stolen or whatever.

Who will you call? If you call the cops, then how do you imagine that you are not placing yourself "under the law?"

 

[bbyrd009]

if you teach others that they do not have to obey the law, how do you imagine that you will not be considered least in the kingdom?

 

[APAK]

Amen! And amen you understand you are not under the law, and WHAT that means.

God Bless,
Taken

Of course..decades ago bro...

 

[APAK]

the heart is deceitful above all things

This applied to the un-regenerated heart bbyrd009, where the carnal mind can run-amuck, in control. This type of heart is under the law.

The heart under the will of the spirit of Christ knows the truth and is never deceitful. Yes, to the regenerated heart, the carnal mind still influences the heart and produces deceitfulness although it is not dominant anymore as faith in Christ grows.

 

[APAK]

GodsGrace: Is this your take of the result of the 'seal' place on a believer?

You said: "...The payment is that we obey Jesus. If we make all payments, at the end we get our "home"..."

I have never heard of such a doctrine.
Is this about works to earn salvation? The seal as a down-payment is based on our faith and belief in Jesus with the planting of the spirit of Christ within us. We are transformed into living in the spirit . Is this what you meant by 'obey Jesus.' I think not.
And are you saying we make payments because of the acceptance of the free gift of salvation. This is definitely not the gospel I know about.

I have to say you are believing in a different gospel?

The rest of the 'payments' are the rewards and glory we expect to have as true believers at salvation, in heaven.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Taken]

well, dunno what to tell you; you must obey the law,

MUST? <-- that is a requirement, a compulsion.

Once a man IS required, IS compelled that he MUST obey the law....He is subject to the Law.

and you cannot Quote "you don't have to obey the law"

Of course there is no such scripture.
Just as you would find no such Law in Civil laws.

Laws simply give a directive.
It is the individual who must determine IF the Law applies to them.

Would you go sit outside the Hebrew camp with the women on their menses? Why not? its a law

Would you taken animals to be offered to Jewish Priests? Why not?, it's the law.

Would you take the next exit while driving on the feeway? Why not?, it's the law to obey ALL traffic signs.

Laws are GENERAL. They may or may not apply to an individual. It's the individuals responsibility to KNOW, "IF" a law applies to them; When, what, why, how, where.

IF, it is civil law, determining those things are found in the Regulations that regulate the applicability of the law.

In Scripture, the Law was given....and surprise surprise, the PEOPLE agreed to OBEY the Laws.

EX 19:8
And all the people answered together, and said, all that the LORD has spoken we will do.

If you AGREE to DO what is within Federal Jurisdiction, you are subjecting yourself carte blanche, TO their Laws, then it is a matter of WHICH of "their" laws specifically apply to you.

If you AGREE to DO what is within ANY individual States Jurisdiction, you are carte blanche subjecting yourself TO their Laws, then it is a matter of WHICH of "their " laws specifically apply to you.

If you AGREE to DO what any Hebrew or Jewish or Islamic or Chinese, or Russian, or WHATEVER jurisdictional Authority Requires, you are carte blanche subjecting yourself TO their Laws, then it is a matter of WHICH ot "their" laws specifically apply to you.

Go on an Indian reservation. You are a guest of their Nation. Violate their laws, and they can oust you from their Nation.

That is how it also worked with the Hebrews and Tribes. And supposed to operate like that within the US.

People decide WHO (what god, what king, what authority, country, state, neighborhood, they are willing to subject themselves to...or not).

If you want to subject yourself TO Hebrew laws, Jewish Laws....go ahead.
And KNOW THIS:

Matt 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, ONE jot or ONE tittle shall IN NO WISE pass FROM THE LAW, till all be fulfilled.

IOW - IF you are SUBJECT TO THE LAW, you are SUBJECT TO ALL OF IT.

For me...I was NEVER subject to the LAW, given the Hebrews or the Jews that Jesus was Speaking to.

I elected to SUBJECT myself "TO" Christ the Lord Jesus.

His COMMANMENTS are SIMPLE....Love the Lord above all other things...Love all others.

And His Spirit dwells IN ME, to accomplish His commandments.

"Obeying the law" is not "under the law," that is strictly a believers' misconception.

Being obedient to Gods Precepts is one thing.
Claiming you are obedient to the Law, is revealing you are subject to the Law.

And if you observe Christians who say the same thing.....they ALSO, claim being subject to the Consequences of the Law, which is CLAIMING they have SINNED.

Two completely diff concepts, that might be better illuminated the next time your house gets robbed or your car gets stolen or whatever.

When you introduce the Law, yes you ARE subjecting yourself to the Law.

When you introduce Precepts, the Law is irrelevant. You are simply doing what pleases God.

Who will you call?

On the Lord to make my aim straight!

If you call the cops, then how do you imagine that you are not placing yourself "under the law?"

You are! You are placing yourself UNDER "THEIR" Law, for particular laws, that apply to you WHEN you subject yourself TO THEIR jurisdiction!

What is Jesus' "law" for those "IN" HIS Jurisdiction? Love the Lord...love all men...

Neh 9
....commanded THEM...Hebrews...and generationally descended to THEM...Jews...

PRECEPTS, STATUES, LAWS...

The Precepts are in tact, for a man who has subjected Himself TO CHRIST.
(Not the statues, Not the laws) !!

The Precepts (behaviors, how to glorify God, etc) ; statues, (written laws): laws (oral laws)....ARE STILL in effect for JEWS who have NOT become "IN" Christ.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

I think that if a person slides to a point of complacency toward sin, they've probably lost their salvation.
1 John 2:1 says that John is writing so that we may not sin. Since in 1 John 1 John says that we do sin, then in chapter 2 John means so that we may not live a LIFE OF SIN. See also 1 John 3:9
If we live a life of sin, we have abandoned what we heard from the beginning.
1 John 2:24
If we must abide in what we have heard from the beginning to have the Father abide in us, it means that if we DO NOT, then the Father will no longer abide in us.

I agree.
That's what mortal sin is all about.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Right, but believers follow the law out of love, not religion.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

And circumcision is NOT part of the Moral Law. It is part of the Ceremonial Law which we are not bound by.

Well, what are your thoughts on Godly sorrow and sanctification.
Believers already know that there is nothing they can do to keep their salvation, but they also know that they have authority over sin, which gives them the "passion" to walk away from sin and become more like Christ. It's a life long process.

We absolutely have something to do with keeping our salvation. THAT is part of the process of enduring to the end.

Some people lose that "passion" to walk away from sin.
Scripture is blindingly clear that NOT all born again believers will endure to the end (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet.r 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well i have never seeing you say anything sensible, guess that makes us even, does it not..

That's because you're a stranger to the Truth.