Once Saved Always Saved

[Behold]

You didn't.

Your contention is that teaching what it says in 1 Peter 3:20-21 is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

That is a lie from the pit.

That you can't understand the verse, and are trying to prove that water saves, is once again, you lying.
As you just wrote that you dont believe that water saves.
So, it took you one post, to contradict yourself, again.

 

[Behold]

How is this.....

....different than this?

If you BELIEVE........if you DO THIS.........you get the FREE GIFT.

It isn't different of course. Wake up!

Do you work for a Gift?
If you do, then keeping working your faith, so that you keep yourself saved.
But if that is not Salvation, then you have a real issue that self righteousness isn't going to solve.

 

[Behold]

If we disown him, he will also disown us 2 Timothy 2:12
​

You deny God everytime you are not perfectly obedient.
Have you ever watched a "R" rated Cable TV show, or rented this same? Or watched a cable TV show that is "PG-13" and you read "mature audience, nudity, profanity".
Have you ever watched "Game Of Thrones", and saw the rape and the incest?

So, what im showing you, is that you have been disobedient.

And what you dont understand about 2 Tim, is that God can't undo, what the BLood of God has caused.
See, when a person is born again, their SPRIIT< that is the NEW CREATION< is never again touched by sin.
This is because its "INCORRUPTIBLE"......
And why?
Because it has JOINED GOD's Holy Spirit.
So, go ahead and keep playing the Legalist's game with the Cross, but one day, it'll make you stop.

Remember i told you that.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

sin was dealt with by God on the Cross

The past sins of the believer on the day he believed were dealt with; not future sins committed in willful disobedience.

Romans 3:24-25
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past

Hebrews 10:26-27
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

Why can’t some hear Hebrews 10:26-27? Maybe because of this:

John 8:43-44
[43] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. [44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

Because:

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

 

[Wrangler]

It is actually a work of the Holy Spirit; not us.

Though we cooperate with that work by walking in the light as He is in the light.

I appreciate the subtlety. Of course, we have to empty ourselves of self to make way for the HS.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Never heard of estranged family members? Although related, you don’t have an actual healthy functioning relationship. See the difference?

Of this I 100% agree! But they are still family! Same with god. He may have children doing badly, but His love is not based on what we do, but who He is! and even if we are being snotty little brats we are still the children of God! Just disobedient snotty little bratty children of the kingdom of God!

You are confusing our relationship with god with the parameters required to have a healthy fellowship with god.

I used to spank my kids, send them to their room and ground them for disoebedience- they were still my kids.

Once we are born again- there is no provision to be UNborn again.

 

[marks]

No, ive never used the term "denied Christ".
That is Ferris defining something he does not understand, when i tell him that he is trying to stay saved by holding onto his faith.
And then you quoting him, thinking i said it.

However, if you lose faith, fall away, etc........and you were born again before you did, you are just as saved as the Blood Of Jesus has the power to cleanse you of all sin, including those, and all others..
See, sin was dealt with by God on the Cross, and you denying it, wont change it for me, or for any real believer.
Once you are born again, you are always born again, and how you think or believe, later, has no effect on the NEW BIRTH.

I would add to this, that in fact, if you've been reborn, you will never again be the same, and in your heart and mind you will know it.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Of this I 100% agree! But they are still family! Same with god. He may have children doing badly, but His love is not based on what we do, but who He is! and even if we are being snotty little brats we are still the children of God! Just disobedient snotty little bratty children of the kingdom of God!

From Was Adolf Hitler religious? Not only was Hitler raised an Austrian Catholic, but he often declared his belief in God and even called himself a Christian.

 

[CoreIssue]

justbyfaith

CoreIssue said: ↑

I am late to the party but Romans 8 clearly says once saved you can never be taken from the hand of Christ. Every verse used to claim you can lose salvation says coming to the knowledge about salvation, not being saved.

What verses, in particular?

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Wrangler]

I am late to the party but Romans 8 clearly says once saved you can never be taken from the hand of Christ. Every verse used to claim you can lose salvation says coming to the knowledge about salvation, not being saved.

IMO, Romans 8 is about those who maintain their faith in Christ, not actively rebelling against. What is your take on this verse, Luke 12:43, 45, 46 (CJB)

It will go well with that servant if he is found doing his job when his master comes ... But if that servant <does not do his job> ... his master will cut him in two and put him with the disloyal.
Luke 12:43, 45, 46 (CJB)

 

[APAK]

Also late to the party...by deliberate intention....

I'm a Christian, a believer in the Father and his son, I am reborn, saved, anointed, I possess the spirit of Christ within me. I was given the saving faith from the Spirit of the only true God, the Father, as his great grace to me. I believed in the gospel, and repented of my sins and sinfulness. And because of this, I am justified and I have been imputed the righteousness of Christ (when Christ's spirit actually entered my own spirit to live there). Since then, this gift by the Father of the spirit of Christ that I received along with the gift of my faith does not vanish or that I can lose it. They are inseparable and spirit sustainable. I abide in it forever from that point on as the spirit is working within me, whether I completely yield my will over completely at times or not, at any time.

Thus, it is important to know I am not saved by MY faith. My faith justified me FIRST to become saved (the presence of the spirit of Christ within me). This faith continues on today within me, whether I increase it, decrease it, or fill it to the brim with strength of my spirit or not. It is a gift of the Father for those that believe in his Son and his works of salvation, to me and others.

On a normal day, I do not suddenly or make it a habit to decide to examine my faith or I'm constantly conscious of my faith 'level' in Christ. I REST in the spirit and abide in it. I allow the spirit to lead me. That is my intention anyway. The spirit produces fruit within me, and one of which is faithfulness ( or more faith = less sin). I do not force or conceive of ways each day to increase my faith as self-work.

No, when I have time during the day to reflect on my day or when the spirit brings these things to my consciousness, I know at least subconsciously, I already have faith for this spiritual process or cooperative exchange to even occur. Then the spirit may urge me to increase my faith because I sinned or that I am rewarded and to praise the Father...part of sanctification

As I already stated in another way, I work with my spirit and Christ's spirit to increase my faith when the Spirit initiates it. I do not initiate anything for this faith examination. If I did, it would be sin and self-gratification or false piety or holiness. True believers do not do this...they rely on the spirit of truth of Christ to the Father.

BL: True born-again folks RELY and REST in/on the spirit within them to lead and draw attention to them (their spirits and minds) of spiritual matters whether needing immediate attention or praise and giving it all to the Father. Believers do not go around in fear of a lack of faith or fear of having 'fallen away' which is impossible anyway, of a true believer. The faith is always there although there is room always to strengthen it as the spirit requires it from within us. One will surely know at that point.

So when someone tells you must abide or maintain the saving faith or belief you already have, until the end or death in Christ, I would seriously question whether they are either new misguided non-growing believers, or are truly saved (they do not possess the active power of the spirit within them and they cannot sense its work upon their spirit and mind everyday). We are not believers to be in daily fear of falling away or losing our faith. This is the voice of unbeliever, the fake believer that still needs to be regenerated in spirit. Their mind is still carnal and their spirit still corrupted.

Ref: Eze 36:26-27; Gal 5:22, 24-26; 1 John 2:26-27 and there are more..

APAK

 

[CoreIssue]

IMO, Romans 8 is about those who maintain their faith in Christ, not actively rebelling against. What is your take on this verse, Luke 12:43, 45, 46 (CJB)

Nowhere in Romans 8 does it say that. It says nothing, which includes you. You have turned faith into a work.

 

[CoreIssue]

Luke 12 this talking about rewards, not salvation. Good works are the result salvation, the failure to work is a result of having never been saved. A Christian in name only.

 

[Behold]

The past sins of the believer on the day he believed were dealt with; not future sins committed in willful disobedience.

Let me show you an aspect of the Devil's Gospel.
He teaches this..
"The blood of Jesus takes care of your past sins, but you take care of your now sins".

So, see that lie?
That lie is created so that you are led to believe that Salvation is one part God's Blood, and one part your Confession.

The good news is that Jesus BECAME our sin, and that means all of it.
This is why we meet God as our Father, as had we any sin, we could only meet Him as JUDGE.
Jesus is our "sin bearer", and not our past sin bearer.

 

[Behold]

I would add to this, that in fact, if you've been reborn, you will never again be the same, and in your heart and mind you will know it.
Much love!

When my older brother was born again, which happened when he was led to the Lord's saving Grace by a preacher, who was kneeling with Him on the floor, in his office, after a counseling session, .....>My Brother (William) told me of that moment, after he was made new by God's Spirit, that he went outside, and looked around, and told me....."the TREES looked different".
So, yeah, the change from dead man to New Creation, is profound, and some people exhibit profound change instantly and some, differently.

What happens to all, is that the Conscience is enlivened by the presence of the Holy Spirit, and this means that you will SEE SIN.
You'll see it.
In other words, sin becomes exceedingly so OBVIOUS........it'll seem so sinful, whereas before it was just what you enjoyed.

 

[amadeus]

My friend has arrived . I have to admit i dont really understand what this means , clean them up but eventually kill those filthy hogs .
I mean yes if one turns away from JESUS , their end will be the second death . A real simple truth , COME TO JESUS FOR ETERNAL LIFE
CONTINUE IN HIM TO THE END . Now let the LORD be praised my friend .

You really do understand it my friend even if my words did not come through to you. I have read many of your posts so I know you understand where you are going, that is where God is leading you.

We cannot alone clean ourselves as we need to be cleaned and we are not supposed to lift ourselves up. God is on top of the situation!

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." Isaiah 64:6

"But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:10-11

 

[marks]

When my older brother was born again, which happened when he was led to the Lord's saving Grace by a preacher, who was kneeling with Him on the floor, in his office, after a counseling session, .....>My Brother (William) told me of that moment, after he was made new by God's Spirit, that he went outside, and looked around, and told me....."the TREES looked different".
So, yeah, the change from dead man to New Creation, is profound, and some people exhibit profound change instantly and some, differently.

What happens to all, is that the Conscience is enlivened by the presence of the Holy Spirit, and this means that you will SEE SIN.
You'll see it.
In other words, sin becomes exceedingly so OBVIOUS........it'll seem so sinful, whereas before it was just what you enjoyed.

I spent a number of years in a very faithless wilderness, after my rebirth, living a terrible life. Year after year, I don't think anyone would have looked at me and thought I was a Christian.

The entire time . . . all of it . . . every minute of every day of every year . . . the simple little choruses I'd learned at Calvary Chapel repeated through my head . . . "I lift my hands up, Unto Thy Name! I life my hands up, Unto Thy Name! My lips shall praise Thee . . ."

Maddening!

But God had staked out His spot, and was bidding His time.

You see I need a LOT of repair!

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Nowhere in Romans 8 does it say that. It says nothing, which includes you. You have turned faith into a work.

Faith is work.

 

[Wrangler]

Let me show you an aspect of the Devil's Gospel.
He teaches this..
"The blood of Jesus takes care of your past sins, but you take care of your now sins".

So, see that lie?
That lie is created so that you are led to believe that Salvation is one part God's Blood, and one part your Confession.

No. Jesus is the Savior provided you repent. He can only cover the sins you give to him to cover.

In no way is confessing the mechanism of one’s own salvation. It’s just a pre-requisite.

 

[justbyfaith]

Its clear that you have stopped, as of today.
I suppose i can find your posts where you state that water has the power to save, but, then again, you might have gone back and edited them out.
I'll just wait till you give water credit for salvation, again.
Then we'll talk more about it.

I have always taught that water doesn't have any magical properties to save; but that in going under the water, it is the only accurate representation of being buried and risen with Christ.

And therefore, while water doesn't save; being baptized does save; in that it is an identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection; and therefore it is a confession of Jesus Christ before men (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

However, if you lose faith, fall away, etc........and you were born again before you did, you are just as saved

You are on record now as teaching that those who fall away continue to have salvation.

That you can't understand the verse, and are trying to prove that water saves, is once again, you lying.
As you just wrote that you dont believe that water saves.
So, it took you one post, to contradict yourself, again.

No, I did not contradict myself; but you have not understood my position.

Have you ever watched a "R" rated Cable TV show, or rented this same? Or watched a cable TV show that is "PG-13" and you read "mature audience, nudity, profanity".
Have you ever watched "Game Of Thrones", and saw the rape and the incest?

Not since becoming truly born again.

So, what im showing you, is that you have been disobedient.

Nope.

justbyfaith

CoreIssue said: ↑

I am late to the party but Romans 8 clearly says once saved you can never be taken from the hand of Christ. Every verse used to claim you can lose salvation says coming to the knowledge about salvation, not being saved.

What verses, in particular?

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In John 3:16, we find that God loves the whole world.

So, I ask you, is the whole world saved?

You can't be separated from the love of the Lord; but you can be separated from salvation.

and Christ's spirit

There should be a capital "S" in "Christ's spirit" (Romans 8:9).

Also, if anyone denies Christ's Deity to the moment of death, they will die in their sins (John 8:24).

So when someone tells you must abide or maintain the saving faith or belief you already have, until the end or death in Christ, I would seriously question whether they are either new misguided non-growing believers, or are truly saved (they do not possess the active power of the spirit within them and they cannot sense its work upon their spirit and mind everyday).

The anointing that is in true believers teaches us to abide in Christ (1 John 2:27).

Let me show you an aspect of the Devil's Gospel.
He teaches this..
"The blood of Jesus takes care of your past sins, but you take care of your now sins".

So, see that lie?

Apparently Paul was lying when he wrote Romans 3:25 (kjv).

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." Isaiah 64:6

Just wanted to mention the contrasting verse to that.

Rev 19:8, And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.