Once Saved Always Saved

[Michiah-Imla]

Thats exactly the point.
God has promised.
Final answer.
Philippians 1:6

Not the final answer.

Because:

Colossians 1:21-23
..,you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel

 

[Tong2020]

I really don't want to get into this... I am a OSAS'er... LOL if that is even a thing... I believe I am secure as a Child of God... that HE has promised to finish within me what HE has begun... I believe that my sanctification is being worked out on a daily basis.... Seeing the FRUIT that a person is displaying will only tell me whether they are being obedient or disobedient... It will not tell me whether they are saved. God sees the heart... we do not... That is my take on it... and I am not open to changing my mind... but I do LIKE you... you brought PEACE ... LOL

Yes, if God is our Savior, and He is, then there is nothing to fear or to be afraid about, with regards our salvation.

Some seems to be against that, because they are afraid that saying that might lead others to misunderstand that we can do anything, even sin all we want and still be saved. Perhaps. But why would I not say that if that is the truth? For this is my view. The truth was not for us to know only to keep, but to share and proclaim it. I learned from the Lord, truth sets people free. And I know that truth is good and brings about good, that I don’t have any reason to think that it would be good to not say, proclaim and share it. To the contrary, I think that it will do good, even while many think and say otherwise.

Tong
2811

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You teach works in place of the Atonement.
Your twisted way to do it, is to trust in faith to keep you saved, instead of confessing that Christ keeps you save by His own Blood Atonement.
So, according to your theology you fail the born again test.

wake up.

You're getting extremely annoying now. Believing is not a work of the works gospel. Having faith in Christ is not you trying to earn your own salvation, lol.

 

[justbyfaith]

... I spent the better part of two weeks trying to reason with... explain myself.... clarify my thoughts... and everything I said was taken out of context and twisted...

I'm sorry I did not see that in the conversations between you and him that I have witnessed.

From what I could see he hasn't ever called you a proponent of this new denomination that he speaks of; while he has defined the perimeters of what that denomination is all about.

They say that the dog that barks the loudest is the one that got hit if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs.

I don't recall him ever singling you out, sister.

But I could be wrong.

Because I tend to primarily frequent the Theology Forums here at these boards.

@Grailhunter .... You have NO NEED to be QUOTING me any longer.... as I have made it clear to you that I do not desire to engage in conversation with you.

He has every right to quote you...

And you have every right to not respond to anything that he posts.

That is the nature of these forums.

... People seem to enjoy arguing and tearing each other down... for the sake of being "right".

With me, it is not for the sake of being right that I correct others...but because I am right...and because in some cases, if they continue to be wrong it will be to their everlasting condemnation.

I don't want that for anyone....so I will continue to be a "correcter" even if it means that I am not well-received by some. That person's soul is worth the correcting....and if others are turned off by the fact that that person has been rebuked and never enter the kingdom because of it, that is on them...because the person who has been corrected, if they heed the correction, will be delivered from certain death.

When I decide I will no longer engage someone in conversation... It is because I have concluded that they are not worth the time it takes to explain myself.

Everyone is worth that time if you are seeking to win them to the Lord so that they will not perish for ever in everlasting torments.

For, I don't wish that fate on my worst enemy.

Therefore, taking the time to talk to someone is expedient...their eternal soul is definitely worth the time that it will take for you to explain yourself.

I will NOT correct someone I do NOT know....who is living in sin... because it is not my place... It is not my right...

That may be true generally; however, when it comes to being in a church setting, pastors are called to even rebuke sin...even in someone that they do not know (1 Timothy 5:20)

I will not judge someone as saved or unsaved... because it is not my place... It is not my right.

Personally, I have the gift of discernment...which means that the Holy Spirit has given me the ability to know after a period of time whether someone I am speaking to is saved or unsaved.

He has instructed me to never point the finger at anyone whom I know is unsaved...but simply to pray for their souls and to say things to them that might help them to see the light, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Correction is highly abused in my opinion... and it is a dangerous weapon that so many Christians seem to use against each other with false permission.

I do believe that those who minister are called to correct other people (2 Timothy 4:2). It is basically a given that it will not always be well-received by the person who is corrected. We are actually exhorted not to correct a wicked person unless we want to receive a blot to our name (Proverbs 9:7-9).

Any denomination that promotes ANYTHING that goes against the bible is simply another FALSE RELIGION and NOT Christianity.

There is NO new denomination of Christianity forming...

I'm afraid that there is...it will be a subsection of the Antichrist's one world religion...and it will be identified as "Christian" by the world.

You are right that it will not be true Christianity.

But you are wrong to say that it will not be called "Christianity".

What an ignorant post.
I would call it stupid, but, its just so far beyond stupid.
You are absolutely a curse to this forum.
You are one of the most twisted carnal fakirs ive ever met on a forum.

You dont know this, but since the Cross was raised, there have been over 600 religious leader who have proclaimed themselves to be "the CHRIST">
So, that is the context of "another Jesus".
Its not his name, its his Position as Messiah, that will be FAKED.

Are you a mormon?

Of course the mormon jesus is a different jesus than the Jesus of the Bible; and he is also called by the name "Jesus Christ".

You teach works in place of the Atonement.
Your twisted way to do it, is to trust in faith to keep you saved,

Works and faith are mutually exclusive when it comes to salvation in the Bible (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Thats exactly the point.
God has promised.
Final answer.
Philippians 1:6

Of course, the entire book of Philippians is written to "all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons" (Philippians 1:1) and so Philippians 1:6 may not apply to you.

Of course, it is possible for you to obtain it as a promise, by faith (2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Hebrews 11:33, Romans 4:20-22).

However, you cannot take it as written specifically to you but as a promise given to those who will obtain it through faith (prayer).

Some seems to be against that, because they are afraid that saying that might lead others to misunderstand that we can do anything, even sin all we want and still be saved. Perhaps. But why would I not say that if that is the truth?

1) It is not the truth.

2) It is not the doctrine which is according to godliness (1 Timothy 6:3, Titus 1:1)

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Some seems to be against that, because they are afraid that saying that might lead others to misunderstand that we can do anything, even sin all we want and still be saved. Perhaps. But why would I not say that if that is the truth?

1) It is not the truth.

2) It is not the doctrine which is according to godliness (1 Timothy 6:3, Titus 1:1)

And what is the truth I was referring to there? Here’s what I said and I quote:

“Yes, if God is our Savior, and He is, then there is nothing to fear or to be afraid about, with regards our salvation.”

Please tell me what you say is not the truth there in what I said.

Is God not your savior? If He is, do you still fear anything about your salvation if you truly believe Him?

Tong
R2813

 

[justbyfaith]

Please tell me what you say is not the truth there in what I said.

@Tong2020 said:

Some seems to be against that, because they are afraid that saying that might lead others to misunderstand that we can do anything, even sin all we want and still be saved. Perhaps.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Please tell me what you say is not the truth there in what I said.

@Tong2020 said:
Some seems to be against that, because they are afraid that saying that might lead others to misunderstand that we can do anything, even sin all we want and still be saved. Perhaps.

You have misunderstood my post. For I was not referring to that being the truth in my statement “But why would I not say that if that is the truth?” in my post#3343 meant for Addy. I was referring to the truth that is in the first paragraph.

Tong
R2815

 

[Addy]

@justbyfaith I see you have left me a long list of little ideas and "corrections" regarding my beliefs.

I am not here to argue my faith.... I have been there and done that... Sadly... the forums are simply a place where people like to SPEAK...
and much of what they speak is filled with self-righteousness and pride... therefore it makes it very difficult to learn truth.

I'm sure Graily will be all honoured to have a NEW and devoted fan in you.... as for me... I'm not impressed in the slightest.

I will reiterate that just because something is called Christian... it doesn't mean it is... there are many churches/teachings going out today that are labelled as Christian and they are NOT...

Whatever NEW denomination you guys think is forming... It will be an extension of the already PERVERTED Gospel... that is NOT Christianity.

So... I will leave you to correct someone else... I'm good here.... Ironically... you chose to put your nose in a discussion that I was not having with you in the first place... this seems to be another thing that Christians think they have the right to do.
I call them busy bodies.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Read psalms 89. And then remember what Paul wrote when he said if you are without chastisement you are a bastard and not a child of the Father.

 

[justbyfaith]

I will reiterate that just because something is called Christian... it doesn't mean it is... there are many churches/teachings going out today that are labelled as Christian and they are NOT...

Whatever NEW denomination you guys think is forming... It will be an extension of the already PERVERTED Gospel... that is NOT Christianity.

The thing is, that the people who purport this PERVERTED gospel, do accuse the true gospel of being FALSE and PERVERTED...

So, the devil is very much introducing confusion into the fray...

And claiming that his false and perverted, new denomination is true Christianity while true Christianity is a false and perverted gospel...

It reminds me of what is written in holy scripture.

Isa 5:20, Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

So... I will leave you to correct someone else... I'm good here.... Ironically... you chose to put your nose in a discussion that I was not having with you in the first place... this seems to be another thing that Christians think they have the right to do.
I call them busy bodies.

And, satan is the accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10-11).

 

[Enoch111]

It’s misleading to say that I am saved because I believed.

The apostle Paul refutes that statement, so you are not only contradicting Paul, but Scripture itself: And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30,31)

So had you asked this jailer "How were you saved?", he would have said that he believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and therefore he was saved. And this would have been consistent with Romans 10:9-11: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. This is also consistent with John 3:14-17.

Therefore Calvinism causes people to distort the Gospel seriously, and your words above have proved it.

 

[Enoch111]

So, the devil is very much introducing confusion into the fray...

Absolutely. For someone not thoroughly grounded in the Word, these discussions on salvation and losing salvation must be extremely confusing. Satan loves to have people believe that they can lose their salvation. And he also loves to have Christians focus on sin rather than righteousness. Just check out the many thread titles on this forum.

Salvation is the gift of eternal life to the one who believes, and the one who believes turns from his sins and idols, so that he may be saved by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

 

[Addy]

.

 

[Grailhunter]

Satan loves to have people believe that they can lose their salvation.

Satan loves it that people think they can do every sin under the sun and be rewarded with heaven.

And he also loves to have Christians focus on sin rather than righteousness.

No focus on sin rather than righteousness ... The whole discussion is about morality or the lack of it....and the proposed belief that heaven will be full of evil...which would alienate God and all that is good.

Salvation is the gift of eternal life to the one who believes, and the one who believes turns from his sins and idols, so that he may be saved by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

The key here is change....not live a sinful and perverted lifestyle....such that will be in hell.

 

[HisLife]

the one who believes turns from his sins and idols, so that he may be saved by grace

You just completely reversed grace, if its works its no more grace, you even put Been saved on it, it's not Christianity and You fail your own criteria

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It’s misleading to say that I am saved because I believed. Rather, I am saved because Jesus Christ saved me.

The apostle Paul refutes that statement, so you are not only contradicting Paul, but Scripture itself: And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30,31)

So had you asked this jailer "How were you saved?", he would have said that he believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and therefore he was saved. And this would have been consistent with Romans 10:9-11: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. This is also consistent with John 3:14-17.

Therefore Calvinism causes people to distort the Gospel seriously, and your words above have proved it.

When one ask me, I will rather say, I am saved because Jesus saved me. It’s because by such statement, I put across clearly what God had done for me. And it’s my small and simple way of giving to God the glory due Him with regards my salvation. That’s my preference. And I am trying to do all things, even that small testimony, for the glory of God.

If you prefer saying, “I am saved because I believe”, then go right ahead. But as I said, such statement points to you and what you do, and not to God and what God has done. Such statement glorifies and credits the man rather than the Savior. And I even find that to be somewhat misleading, as it gives the wrong impression that after Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross, that salvation now depends on man, wherein he would only have to do this and that, which I think some calls “steps to salvation”, and may do it any time he so decides to do so. This had led many to believe that salvation can now be attained by doing this and that (repenting and believing, then having themselves baptized, confess with their mouth Jesus is Lord, believe that he rose from the dead, do good works, keep the commandments of God) ~ works in other words. Those are all good indeed and the Christian ought to do all those. But they are not to be thought and taken as though it is that saves them. And so what do we have there? Is that the gospel? No.

Salvation then and now, is by grace, and God saves through faith. What faith? Is it that which all man commonly have? What faith? It is faith that comes from God. And that’s grace from God.

You mentioned the case of the jailer. And it seems you did look at the answer of Paul to his all important question and what the jailer had done after. But it seems you had not looked at what God did before that, so that it resulted to the salvation of the jailer and those of his household. Who would you think Paul would thank that they are saved? Would it be them because they obeyed Paul and believed, or God because God had done what He had done and saved them?

Paul always gives the glory and thanks to God. I recall what Paul said in the following passage:

Romans 6:17
But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.

Why would Paul thank God, if Paul knows not that it was God who worked all that out?

And why is it that even while I only make reference to scriptures, and make my arguments according to what I read in scriptures, that many here refers to Calvinism or any “ism” for that matter, in making their counter argument, as though these “isms” strengthens their argument by doing so? I think that shows the weakness of their argument.

Tong
R2844

 

[Grailhunter]

When one ask me, I will rather say, I am saved because Jesus saved me. It’s because by such statement, I put across clearly what God had done for me. And it’s my small and simple way of giving to God the glory due Him with regards my salvation. That’s my preference. And I am trying to do all things, even that small testimony, for the glory of God.

If you prefer saying, “I am saved because I believe”, then go right ahead. But as I said, such statement points to you and what you do, and not to God and what God has done. Such statement glorifies and credits the man rather than the Savior. And I even find that to be somewhat misleading, as it gives the wrong impression that after Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross, that salvation now depends on man, wherein he would only have to do this and that, which I think some calls “steps to salvation”, and may do it any time he so decides to do so. This had led many to believe that salvation can now be attained by their repenting and believing Jesus, then having themselves baptized, confess with their mouth Jesus is Lord, believe that he rose from the dead, do good works, keep the commandments of God. Those are all good indeed and the Christian ought to do all those. And so what do we have there? Is that the gospel? No.

Salvation then and now, is by grace and they were saved by God through faith. What faith? Is it that which all man commonly have? What faith? It is faith that comes from God. And that’s grace from God.

You mentioned the case of the jailer. And it seems you did looked at the answer of Paul to his all important question. But it seems you had not looked at what God did before that, so that it resulted to the salvation of the jailer and those of his household. Who would you think Paul would thank that they are saved? Would it be them because they obeyed Paul and believed, or God because God had done what He had done and saved them?

Paul always gives the glory and thanks to God. I recall what Paul said in the following passage:

Romans 6:17
But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.

And why is it that even while I only make reference to scriptures, and make my arguments according to what I read in scriptures, that many here refers to Calvinism or any ism for that matter, in making their counter argument, as though they give strength to their argument by doing so? I think that shows the weakness of their argument.

Tong
R2844

Paul said a lot of about Grace but not with standing he obviously did not believe that evil will go to heaven.
Beyond that it would only make sense that the good would not want to spend eternity with evil...Evil be warned by the words of Paul himself.

2Cor:5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Rom:1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rom:6:12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
When one ask me, I will rather say, I am saved because Jesus saved me. It’s because by such statement, I put across clearly what God had done for me. And it’s my small and simple way of giving to God the glory due Him with regards my salvation. That’s my preference. And I am trying to do all things, even that small testimony, for the glory of God.

If you prefer saying, “I am saved because I believe”, then go right ahead. But as I said, such statement points to you and what you do, and not to God and what God has done. Such statement glorifies and credits the man rather than the Savior. And I even find that to be somewhat misleading, as it gives the wrong impression that after Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross, that salvation now depends on man, wherein he would only have to do this and that, which I think some calls “steps to salvation”, and may do it any time he so decides to do so. This had led many to believe that salvation can now be attained by their repenting and believing Jesus, then having themselves baptized, confess with their mouth Jesus is Lord, believe that he rose from the dead, do good works, keep the commandments of God. Those are all good indeed and the Christian ought to do all those. And so what do we have there? Is that the gospel? No.

Salvation then and now, is by grace and they were saved by God through faith. What faith? Is it that which all man commonly have? What faith? It is faith that comes from God. And that’s grace from God.

You mentioned the case of the jailer. And it seems you did looked at the answer of Paul to his all important question. But it seems you had not looked at what God did before that, so that it resulted to the salvation of the jailer and those of his household. Who would you think Paul would thank that they are saved? Would it be them because they obeyed Paul and believed, or God because God had done what He had done and saved them?

Paul always gives the glory and thanks to God. I recall what Paul said in the following passage:

Romans 6:17
But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.

And why is it that even while I only make reference to scriptures, and make my arguments according to what I read in scriptures, that many here refers to Calvinism or any ism for that matter, in making their counter argument, as though they give strength to their argument by doing so? I think that shows the weakness of their argument.

Paul said a lot of about Grace but not with standing he obviously did not believe that evil will go to heaven.
Beyond that it would only make sense that the good would not want to spend eternity with evil...Evil be warned by the words of Paul himself.

2Cor:5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Rom:1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rom:6:12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

<<<Paul said a lot of about Grace but not with standing he obviously did not believe that evil will go to heaven.>>>

I think you mistook me to be someone else. For there is nothing in my post that even suggest to the slightest, that Paul believe that evil will go to heaven.

Tong
R2847

 

[Grailhunter]

<<<Paul said a lot of about Grace but not with standing he obviously did not believe that evil will go to heaven.>>>

I think you mistook me to be someone else. For there is nothing in my post that even suggest to the slightest, that Paul believe that evil will go to heaven.

Tong
R2847

Well maybe I was mistaken....time will tell.

 

[marks]

I think you mistook me to be someone else. For there is nothing in my post that even suggest to the slightest, that Paul believe that evil will go to heaven.

I don't think anyone here is saying that.

Much love!