Once Saved Always Saved

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's all ad hominen, nothing of any real content.

o_O
Even when you literally show an Osaser there is another way to look at their Osas scriptures they still can't see it. It's quite scary. It reminds me of talking to Jehovah's Witnesses, or Mormons. And you can literally hold a Bible open to them and show them words that say exactly the opposite of what they believe and they will look up at you and still believe what they do, just as if they'd never seen the actual words written in the Bible that you showed them. It's scary!
 
  • Like
Reactions: GracePeace

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,645
21,732
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No you don't. You're getting frustrated and, as usual in Christian forums, you're attacking me instead of just....well....having a good argument.

The point is, it's not a good argument when someone routinely engages in multiple fallacies, as I've been seeing. They aren't actually arguments, they are merely empty words that work against dialog.

And yes, I do have an idea of why you write the way you do. Silly to say I don't.

One very common reason why someone writes with so many fallacies is that they simply lack good responses. They find themself dealing with questions they cannot answer, and have become practiced at defending their view the best way they can, often times by ad hominem, but there are many other sorts of fallacies.

Goals are typically to make one's opponent appear ridiculous so others won't examine their arguments, or to make one's opponent give up and go away, basically just shut down the opposition.

Instead of . . . a good argument.

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,645
21,732
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Everybody knows that, lol! What you can't accept is it doesn't have to mean what Osas says it has to mean, and what Osas says it can only mean.
More Ad hominem . . .

This is not an argument. Well, it is, "to argue against the person", but that's not this thread . . .
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,645
21,732
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Even when you literally show an Osaser there is another way to look at their Osas scriptures they still can't see it. It's quite scary. It reminds me of talking to Jehovah's Witnesses, or Mormons. And you can literally hold a Bible open to them and show them words that say exactly the opposite of what they believe and they will look up at you and still believe what they do, just as if they'd never seen the actual words written in the Bible that you showed them. It's scary!

Continuing ad hominem . . . empty words. Vanity, all is vanity!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,645
21,732
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That they can. When someone starts attacking the person it's quite easy to judge the character of someone. Although, it does take good character to recognize good character.
I think that poor character recognizes good character, and sometimes just wants to tear it down.
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But maybe the Spirit comes upon that which the Spirit is in......I wanted to look at the diffs... but have not gotten a chance to look at the diff between the Spirit of Christ and
Spirit of God. FOR look at Jesus...The spirit came upon Him...but He was also God.
There is a difference. There is the indwelling Spirit in the beleiver, and then there is the baptism of power of the Holy Spirit that comes from the outside. I've experienced it, and even literally SEEN it for myself. Most in the church today know all about the head knowledge of having the Holy Spirit in them in salvation. But very, very few in the church know about the 'falling' of the Holy Spirit in power. They are quite different. But, if just the falling of the Spirit makes you a 'different', new person, how much more the Spirit within a man who never leaves? Think about it. The point is, the agent of change in a person that makes them 'new' is the presence of the Holy Spirit. A Spirit that can just as easily depart from a person's body as he came.

The problem is, most people in the church today think about the born again experience as a new child being brought into the world. No. What it is like is when God breathed breath into Adam and he became a living soul. Or like when a baby takes his first breath and he becomes a living soul, new in existence. In the same way God breathes a NEW spirit into our bodies and so we are 'born' that way. But when you talk to Christians they seem to think a new baby gets birthed into existence when you get born again. It's really quite silly. No. Born again means being born fresh and anew. A new Spirit is inside of you that makes you 'different'. The same you, just different now.
 
Last edited:

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Continuing ad hominem . . . empty words. Vanity, all is vanity!
You're not open. You won't learn anything except what you already know. A big step for indoctrinated people is for them to just at least hear an argument out. You've gone 10,000 miles with them if you get them to even do that!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,645
21,732
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You're not open. You won't learn anything except what you already know. A big step for indoctrinated people is for them to just at least hear an argument out. You've gone 10,000 miles with them if you get them to even do that!

Apparently the last tool in your toolbox is a paintbrush, and you mean to paint me as "intellectually dishonest", in that I just look at everything in the Bible AS IF I were re-interpreting things out of some idea of OSAS, which doesn't even carry an agreed upon definition.

This seems to be your final answer to my presenting clearly stated Scriptures which you are unable to reconcile to your view without re-wording them.

For all you protestations over "OSAS", I'm not the one talking about that. I'm quoting passages, and saying, believe them as written. That's it.

Should you find some impact on your ideas of "OSAS", and your campaign against it, well, expect to learn new things in Scripture, I think is the idea.

First, let's agree to believe the Bible "as written", not with caveats and changes.

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: HisLife

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,645
21,732
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You're not open. You won't learn anything except what you already know. A big step for indoctrinated people is for them to just at least hear an argument out. You've gone 10,000 miles with them if you get them to even do that!
You DO realize, don't you, that this is not the presentation of an argument?

Right?
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think that poor character recognizes good character, and sometimes just wants to tear it down.
Hmm.....no more love for me, I guess, lol. God's love is unconditional. You probably did not know that. Most Christians do not. They love the old way that humans love.....with condition of being worthy of one's love. I guess I'm not worthy anymore.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,645
21,732
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hmm.....no more love for me, I guess, lol. God's love is unconditional. You probably did not know that. Most Christians do not. They love the old way that humans love.....with condition of being worthy of one's love. I guess I'm not worthy anymore.
Don't try to be a victim. There's too much of that going around already.

Love is not coerced. Love is not manipulated. Words are, though!

Love is as love does. Shall we discuss love? Love for the brothers? Love for unbelievers? Love for the enemies of God?

What is the best way to show our love?

Much love?

?
 
  • Like
Reactions: HisLife

Corlove13

Active Member
Apr 30, 2021
746
171
43
55
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is a difference. There is the indwelling Spirit in the beleiver, and then there is the baptism of power of the Holy Spirit that comes from the outside. I've experienced it, and even literally SEEN it for myself. Most in the church today know all about the head knowledge of having the Holy Spirit in them in salvation. But very, very few in the church know about the 'falling' of the Holy Spirit in power. They are quite different. But, if just the falling of the Spirit makes you a 'different', new person, how much more the Spirit within a man who never leaves? Think about it. The point is, the agent of change in a person that makes them 'new' is the presence of the Holy Spirit. A Spirit that can just as easily depart from a person's body as he came.

The problem is, most people in the church today think about the born again experience as a new child being brought into the world. No. What it is like is when God breathed breath into Adam and he became a living soul. Or like when a baby takes his first breath and he becomes a living soul, new in existence. In the same way God breathes a NEW spirit into our bodies and so we are 'born' that way. But when you talk to Christians they seem to think a new baby gets birthed into existence when you get born again. It's really quite silly. No. Born again means being born fresh and anew. A new Spirit is inside of you that makes you 'different'. The same you, just different now.
Tks for sharing.
From your own experience how were you Marked?
 

Corlove13

Active Member
Apr 30, 2021
746
171
43
55
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hmm.....no more love for me, I guess, lol. God's love is unconditional. You probably did not know that. Most Christians do not. They love the old way that humans love.....with condition of being worthy of one's love. I guess I'm not worthy anymore.
Well some of what I might say is head knowledge ....

And I may even be wrong
But what It means to be born from above..is real life......

But I'm a bit confused
When one is born again/from above are they at the same time regenerated renewed and justified?
Another words does new life make you automatically forgiven........for I know one is forgived of past sins......and if they fall short dont the need to be justified b4 God again?
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But I'm a bit confused
When one is born again/from above are they at the same time regenerated renewed and justified?
Another words does new life make you automatically forgiven........for I know one is forgived of past sins......and if they fall short dont the need to be justified b4 God again?
I'm at work and have to get back on the clock. But these are good questions and I will answer them when I have a chance.
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This seems to be your final answer to my presenting clearly stated Scriptures which you are unable to reconcile to your view without re-wording them.
No rewording on my part. I don't have to do that. You just think I'm doing that because you literally can not see the argument I'm making from the exact same scriptures you're looking at, and so you think I'm changing it. I say 'amen' to every single scripture you bring up, because they have another way of them being true that you are not aware of. Osas is the belief system that has to explain why certain passages don't really mean what they say. That's another cultish element of Osas.....you need Osas to jump in and explain why scriptures mean what they say it means, not what the plain reading of it and related scripture plainly says it means.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,645
21,732
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No rewording on my part. I don't have to do that. You just think I'm doing that because you literally can not see the argument I'm making from the exact same scriptures you're looking at, and so you think I'm changing it. I say 'amen' to every single scripture you bring up, because they have another way of them being true that you are not aware of. Osas is the belief system that has to explain why certain passages don't really mean what they say. That's another cultish element of Osas.....you need Osas to jump in and explain why scriptures mean what they say it means, not what the plain reading of it and related scripture plainly says it means.
No, you add caveats which don't exist in the passages themselves, and are actually contridicted in those very passages.

btw . . . I greyed the part that doesn't really say anything other than the usual nonsense.

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: HisLife
Status
Not open for further replies.