Once Saved, Always Saved?
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I have heard this from the OSAS crowd so many times.....If you live a life of sin you were not saved to begin with. And I am sure they wish there was an actually a scripture that said that. But I have to chuckle when I go to churches and see people get baptized over and over again. Like the first one did not take.
We all sin LOL some more than others and count on the forgiveness of Christ. Some think that belief in Christ is a license to sin.
Of course they do not like the word license. Repent of your sins and honestly pledge to sin no more, particularly the sins we are asking forgiveness for. And as Christ said to the adulteress, go and sin no more.. Of course we are still going to sin on occasion. A lot of it has to do with an honest intent. But then you have those that live a sinful lifestyle and think that Christ is so naive that He will continue to forgive them. But Christ and Apostles will tell you that is not going to happen, and they keep warning Christians that will not happen and how sinful it is to even think that. They even tell you the sins that will prevent you from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven.
Does it hurt if a person believes in OSAS even though they live their lives with very few sins? It can. OSAS is a false belief. If they convince some one that came to Christianity that they do not have to change their sinful lifestyles and can go to heaven just because they believe in Christ and continue to lead those sinful lifestyles....they may have lead those people down a path to hell. Can they be accountable for that? That is up to Christ on Judgment Day.
Do you think that Heaven will be full of people like murders, child molesters, rapists, thieves, abortionists, cannibals and LGBTQ? Do you think that you could be at that that heavenly banquet and the guy on your left could be pouring ketchup on your arm because he wants to eat you? Could the guy behind you be picking your pocket? Could the guy on your right be bragging about the women he raped. Basically do you believe heaven will be where evil will go and God and good people will have to move out.
Along with OSAS is the belief that no one can be good, so there is no sense in trying.....that is Satan whispering in their ear.
Nothing in the Bible suggest that people should not try to be moral and lists the lifestyles that will prevent you from inheriting the kingdom of heaven.
2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Hebrews 10:26-31 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
in our natural body we can commit sin and will why would john write IF we confess our sins he is just and able to forgive and cleanse there is such thing as free will .why would it be written be ye angry and sin not.. because if we get angry we will sin.. Facts its not like a person is some evil villian .i have read this type teaching and i rejected it and i still reject . facts are we can sin if there was no sin in us at all. there would be no need for CHRIST you can red letter bold letters all you want even 1 john 1;7 tells us to walk in the light as he is the light
in Galatians he wrote the same but ended will not inherit . my whole point many often look at others say i dont get drunk dont do drugs etc,, so i am going to heaven. its like the old saying i dont drink cuss or chew or go out with people who do.
ya know i took time out to explain eternal security WHICH IS NOT A LICENSE OR EXCUSE TO SIN !!!! YES i am secure in my salvation i know in who i have believed . all the above i quoted you in the post....is Garbage trash talk posting
have you ever took the time out to study both doctrines ? or do you just cherry pick scriptures for trash talk .
do me a favor when you stop the trash talk ie: {Do you think that Heaven will be full of people like murders, child molesters, rapists, thieves, abortionists, cannibals and LGBTQ? Do you think that you could be at that that heavenly banquet and the guy on your left could be pouring ketchup on your arm because he wants to eat you?} you have serious issues read romans 6 if you know how. enough of your gibberish. on 2nd thought reply to taken maybe he can communicate with you.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Sorry but I can either get really irritated at silliness.....or laugh at it.
I can get really rough when people slander the scriptures.
i really could care less one way or the other.. you dont impress me in the least little bit . see i have slandered no scripture what your failing to see . is a key word called interrupting scripture for some odd reason you chose my post. curious did you even read Taken point of scripture? mind you it dont really matter to me..
i can more than stand my ground i be a big boy . so toot your horn all you want if you want a adult like conversation i will reply. but if you want to be childish and post garbage like putting ketchup on my arm so a cambial can eat my arm . btw i heard of a story of a man being a missionary where canibals was. they killed him and ate him.. then years later his wife went to same region and many of them was converted . dont limit God power on what he can do
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Maybe you believe the Gospels are gibberish, but good Christians do not believe that way.
And see you are one of those that I could really get rough with....and what good would it do?
That is between you and Christ on Judgment Day.
Me, I believe in be good and do good....That is what the Bible teaches. The scriptures do not teach a tolerance to immorality, they do not condone or tolerate immorality. My faith is not measured by how sinful I can be and count on Christ to forgive an evil lifestyle. If you think that Christ and the Apostles were not promoting morality....that is your problem.
If you think that Christ died on the cross to give you a license to sin.....that is your problem.
This has been debated here for a long time and all of the scriptures have been given, a lot of scriptures, that proves it wrong....no doubt.
If you want to believe in a doctrine of sin and evil.....that is your problem. If you want to call that Christianity....that is your problem.
If you convince others of this doctrine of sin and evil.....and they go to hell because of it.....that is your problem because I follow the teaching and morality of Christ and the Apostles......be good and do good.....not sin all you want and go to heaven. What would hell be for? Is heaven full of evil? Is it evil to believe that? Cherry picking the scripture is no way to form a religious belief and cherry picking the scriptures is not going to save.
STOP RIGHT THERE you just crossed the line,,, i NEVER said scriptures was gibberish .. I SAID YOUR STUPID REMARKS was gibberish . the only problem is your foolishness . take your garbage post and reply to taken it is he who thinks we dont ]can sin . you really need to learn how to post . i will no longer respond to your childish remarks
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The belief that works of righteousness is evidence of true faith and salvation is true. But not for faith alone or OSAS.
It is true that a living perfect faith has works, James 2:22.
It is also true that a dead faith has no works, James 2:20.
Therefore evidence of salvation from faith is a working obedient faith, not a faith alone without works that is dead.
If we are saved by faith alone. We are saved by an imperfect, dead faith.
If works are evidence of true faith.
Then faith without works can never be a true, living, perfect faith.
What it can only be is dead.
So, it is a contradiction to believe faith alone saves, and the evidence we are saved by faith alone is works.
Also, God never promised any Christian that no longer remains faithful and has no good works that he will remain saved.
Eternal life is conditional for those needing to be saved and for those already saved.
OSAS, like to use this passage as a proof text for OSAS,
Ephesians 1:13,
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.
Supposedly being sealed one cannot be released from this promise.
The problem is God is the one who has promised salvation. And God has promised He will, never seperate Himself from you.
There is another side to this covenant.
When we agree to believe and obey the gospel.
We are agreeing to the covenant that Jesus has given in His gospel.
This is a contract between you and Jesus.
God has promised you, He will always be faithful to His contract.
But that does not mean you will be faithful to this covenant with Christ.
Therefore Only ourselves can break what God has sealed.
God will never break the seal, but we can.
Seals can be broken,
Revelation 6:1-17
We can forfeit our salvation by breaking the seal, our covenant with Christ.
It is true that a living perfect faith has works, James 2:22.
It is also true that a dead faith has no works, James 2:20.
Therefore evidence of salvation from faith is a working obedient faith, not a faith alone without works that is dead.
If we are saved by faith alone. We are saved by an imperfect, dead faith.
If works are evidence of true faith.
Then faith without works can never be a true, living, perfect faith.
What it can only be is dead.
So, it is a contradiction to believe faith alone saves, and the evidence we are saved by faith alone is works.
Also, God never promised any Christian that no longer remains faithful and has no good works that he will remain saved.
Eternal life is conditional for those needing to be saved and for those already saved.
OSAS, like to use this passage as a proof text for OSAS,
Ephesians 1:13,
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.
Supposedly being sealed one cannot be released from this promise.
The problem is God is the one who has promised salvation. And God has promised He will, never seperate Himself from you.
There is another side to this covenant.
When we agree to believe and obey the gospel.
We are agreeing to the covenant that Jesus has given in His gospel.
This is a contract between you and Jesus.
God has promised you, He will always be faithful to His contract.
But that does not mean you will be faithful to this covenant with Christ.
Therefore Only ourselves can break what God has sealed.
God will never break the seal, but we can.
Seals can be broken,
Revelation 6:1-17
We can forfeit our salvation by breaking the seal, our covenant with Christ.
Because THAT IS A PARAMOUNT part of a man Becoming CONVERTED.
Absolutely men have FREEWILL...
And WHY, you can Believe, Doubt, Wonder, Deny, Believe or Flat out Not Believe....until the day you drop dead...
UNTIL the Power of God (HS) is Dwelling IN a man...God does not dwell in SIN or Corruption.
Really? You get angry and because you are angry, YOU DENY God?
Weird.
Fact is, you reject Scripture that flat out tells you, a Converted man HAS Gods Spirit dwelling IN him, and God Does not dwell in Sin.
Fact is IT IS Christ IN a man, who IS THE POWER OF GOD, that KEEPS the man FREE FROM SINNING!
And?
Jesus is the Light. How do you walk IN Jesus, IF Christ is not IN you?
And?
How do you have your SINS forgiven AND COVERED with HIS LIGHT, IF Gods LIGHT is not IN YOU.
I gave you Scriptures.
You can look up Your own Scriptures.
But I can not understand it for you.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I had a long pointless discussion with a man who goes by the name, Praise Yeshua.
I wish now I had never responded to his post. He is a very angry man. He does not believe the book of James is Gods revelation. So I got nowhere discussing how, the Bible must be without error or it cannot be believed as God breathed. I dont believe English translations are without minor errors. But that is not proof that the canon is man made like the catholic church likes to take credit for its construction. I think you're someone who can keep a cool head even if one disagrees with your beliefs. But I agree, that it is unbiblical to agree to disagree. That is nonsense when discussing the word of God.
stop i have always considered your post ot be good .i will NOT tolerate this if i waked up to you in person punched you as hard as i could kocked you down. ou ould get up shake my hand say God bless have a good day. no its in our nature we will get angry we will sin do we turn the other cheek ? most likely not were going to fight back and most likely it will not be pretty ..to him who knows to do good and dont is SIN
for the life of me you want to say deny God? i am not going to agree with your No sin teaching . we can we will peter was in CHRIST DENIED OUR lORD IT CUT HIM TO HIS HEART
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