Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Ferris Bueller]

Most likely because the other person says so.

NO!
People lie, even to themselves! Especially to themselves!
We know for sure what we and others truly believe by our actions.

 

[Taken]

You know where it tells us, right?

Probably several places. Have no particular verse off hand.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Ministering and service brother indicative of a transformed style of life through and in the sphere of the Holy Spirit and here Mat 25 is Imperative.
If my "lingo" is cryptic just reread it a couple of times.


Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I was a witness in seeing my wife live this out to the fullest.
J.

Yes. We know for sure what we sincerely believe by what we do. The Bible says we gain assurance that we are saved from what we do. Most in the church think what you say is how you know for sure what you believe and that what you do counts for nothing. I think that's indicative of the spiritual state of the church at this time in church history.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Probably several places. Have no particular verse off hand.

Hebrews 6:7-12
2 Peter 1:5-11

What you DO gives you the assurance that you really are called and elected.

We know we possess the promise of God the same way Sarah knew that she did. She had the witness of the promised son growing inside of her. The son God promised, growing inside of her, gave her the assurance that she had indeed received God's promise of a son that would inherit the blessing on Abraham's behalf. When we see Christ growing in us by the Holy Spirit in all kinds of righteous deeds we have assurance that we do indeed have God's promise of a Son.

 

[Taken]

No, you can tell what you or someone else REALLY believes by what they do: Example: I don't have a dime in the stock market. What does that tell you about what I believe about the stock market?

Well, it could tell me, you don’t like to take risks, you are financially strapped to play betting the stocks, you maybe are religiously against gambling, you have suffered a blow gambling and decided not to do that again....on an on... all guess.

 

[Johann]

You didn't cite any of John's verses that explicitly tell us how we know we belong to the truth.

Joh_14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh_16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Joh_17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Joh_18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

You want more scriptures?
J.

 

[Taken]

Hebrews 6:7-12
2 Peter 1:5-11

What you DO gives you the assurance that you really are called and elected.

Heartful Yes Confession. My election of God. 1 Thes 1:4

 

[Taken]

NO!
People lie, even to themselves! Especially to themselves!
We know for sure what we and others truly believe by our actions.

Sure people lie.
And as well people DO the Appearance of Good Works, with underhanded intentions and underhanded works.

 

[Taken]

Hebrews 6:7-12
2 Peter 1:5-11

What you DO gives you the assurance that you really are called and elected.

We know we possess the promise of God the same way Sarah knew that she did. She had the witness of the promised son growing inside of her. The son God promised, growing inside of her, gave her the assurance that she had indeed received God's promise of a son that would inherit the blessing on Abraham's behalf. When we see Christ growing in us by the Holy Spirit in all kinds of righteous deeds we have assurance that we do indeed have God's promise of a Son.

My assurance is choosing to Trust God, and see the results of His Blessings.

 

[Johann]

I think that's indicative of the spiritual state of the church at this time in church history.

I say this, "Don't talk your walk, walk your talk" and we are living epistles there to be read by all people and they should witness the Christ IN us by what we do and say.

Was this cryptic?
J.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

No, don't leave it for God to sort out. John wrote 1 John specifically so the church could identify fake believers. The church he was writing to was being deceived by fake believers/teachers. John taught them how to identify fakes. That lesson is for us today. But almost everyone in the church has rejected his teachings and thinks they are doing something righteous by leaving it for God to sort out.

There is NO CHURCH today to take care of God's business in as instructed in the word.

Ppl are scattered in the faith and meet by the moving of the Spirit to fellowship and share God.

When we could have done so the church was selfishess, scared and weak. By the 1970's we folded in on ourselves and kept those that wanted to stay and let go those who didnt.
Then the 2000's came and the pc's of the world came through the doors of buildings claiming heresies and total acceptance of sin among BELIEVERS and we let it happen.

I will love God and others as instructed,love the brethren and share the TRUTH when the Spirit moves. As for the claimers,I'll let God sort it !

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Joh_14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh_16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Joh_17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Joh_18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

You want more scriptures?
J.

It's just interesting that you didn't cite the ones that just come right out and tell us how to know we belong to the truth so that the scriptures you did post would really apply to us personally.

"18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. 19And by this we will know that we belong to the truth, and will assure our hearts in His presence: 20Even if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and He knows all things." 1 John 3:18-19​

 

[Johann]

20Even if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and He knows all things." 1 John 3:18-19

Ag man, you beat me to the punch!
See my signature?
Now it is my time to ask you a question.
How have you received a martureo/witness?
And in what way and manner did the witness come?
Since we are commanded to dokimazete τὰ pneumata...as you do me, which is good as long as it is done in a loving manner..
J.

 

[Johann]

It's just interesting

...very interesting...but I'm a sort of a "mystery"
J.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If it does not make sense to you that "other sheep I have which are not of this fold" that some are "the dead in Christ" and others are "the living in Christ" and the difference is what occurred before and after the cross...then you have not heard Him, let alone me.

But if you think you can mix those things He spoke to the dead with those things He spoke to the living and arrive at the gospel of Christ, mixing darkness with light--you are wrong.

So be it.

This is not a game where I should always be on the defensive and with you giving cryptic remarks as if you are right without explaining things properly by the Word of God. If you are on the side of the truth, your position should be defendable in a clear way for all to see.

You should be able to explain Paul clearly when he spoke against Eternal Security. For Paul says,

1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
   
   
2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
   
   
4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
   
   
5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
   
   
6. We can deny God by being reprobate unto every good work (Titus 1:16).
   
   
7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
   
   
8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
   
   
9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
   
   
10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).
    

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The only error here is that 1 Cor 3 is about ministry, not about righteous living.

Errors in ministry are wood, hay, and stubble to be burned away from memory at the judgement seat of Christ, but them that do unrighteousness are the dead branches burned in the fire for not abiding in Christ faithfully.

Thumbs up.

In regards to the parable of the building,
and it's materials in 1 Corinthians 3:

Paul says before the parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.

The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).​

This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). OSAS Christians are not interpreting this parable correctly. The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.

Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,

“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”

 

[JunChosen]

Unless Paul is a Liar , you KNOW that you are Saved because you Believe the Promise Of 1Cor15:1-4 ....the only reason you heard the Gospel and Believed it, as opposed to those that just heard it, is because The Holy Spirit “ opened your heart” to the reception of it ( check out the story of Lydia the Seller Of Purple In Acts)....
Your “submitting” is a wise idea—- it “can” follow Salvation and I believe that most Believers that have their New Hearts will go on to a Maturity that encompasses this Wise move on their part....it “Should” happen and I believe that in the vast majority of cases it “Will” happen! It’s great! “ I” myself did it ! It took me years as a Saved Believer to get there..... It was accomplished by guess what? I was LEAD to make that decision by the Holy Spirit that was already inside me and got there by TRUSTING —- NOT by Submitting...
Trust the Gospel First....That will have God putting His Holy Spirit IN you.... THAT is what gets you Saved....If That Holy Spirit hangs around long enough, the RESULT of that Spirit will very likely lead you to the Wisdom to Submitting......It SHOULD and probably WILL happen—- it just does not HAVE to to prove you are Saved..
The “ Foundation” That you speak Of * IS* Trusting and RESTING in Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace...l.
Remember ? “ It is by GRACE that you have been Saved” It does NOT say , “ By Submission you have been saved”......
You are putting the cart before the horse .....

This “ proof” that you keep wanting to see may not really show to you “ Fruit Inspectors” for years.....I’m sure many people didn’t think that BB was saved for a very long time...like the Corinthians, I was a very Carnal Christian ....but yet I was a Christian...a baby one, not nearly as wise as I was later was when I saw what a great idea submitting to Jesus was......I made Him my Lord , or Boss when I finally figured out he was much smarter than me and could run my life better than I could....Surrendering your Entire Life to Jesus is a very difficult place to arrive at...sometimes it takes time....and if it NEVER happens YOU are the Loser, but you are not Lost...It is the Ultimate in Wisdom...but one is not saved by Wisdom.....One is Saved by Trusting.....The “ Proof” that you Want to see was in my New Heart....God had His Proof....He could see my Heart....Sometimes the “ proof” Of one’s Salvation takes a little time to come out in a way that others might see....the fact that we also have that Old Sin Nature That needs to be tamed can obscure the new and good Hearts that we now possess...Luckily, God’s vision is not obscured....

Man would like/want to think they have a part in their salvation, but the truth is salvation is a GIFT that God laid on the lap to those whom He wished to be saved!!! [so to speak] Man by nature is a corps, a spiritually dead person who can't do anything, that is! IOW, God paid a tremendous price by sending His Son to the cross to pay for the sins of all those whom the Father elected/chosen to salvation in eternity past, before the foundation of the world!.... OSAS!!! IN ACTION!

To God Be The Glory

 

[marks]

What you DO gives you the assurance that you really are called and elected.

Are you saying your assurance is based on your opinion of your behavior? Mightant a good temperment be mistaken for salvation?

Much love!

 

[marks]

...very interesting...but I'm a sort of a "mystery"
J.

You posted some good verses that address our assurance. Something that will be true inside you if you are reborn, not if you are not. And you will know this is true, being the hearer of His voice.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Much love!

Bless you brother, yes, I believe since I was a young lad..
When I'm "off point" please correct Marks.
J.

 

[marks]

Bless you brother, yes, I believe since I was a young lad..
When I'm "off point" please correct Marks.
J.

There was friend of mine from a forum years ago that used to ask this question, "Have you been born again long enough to be certain that you are?" I thought that was a very good question!

Bless you!

Much love!