Once saved always saved

[beechan]

Amen! NOT our behavior, But Because of The Precious All-SUFFICIENT BLOOD Of The Wonderful SAVIOUR!! Amen? We righteous saints Have:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance


View attachment 92649

Had Judas lost his salvation?
or is he now sitting at the right side of Jesus??

Your 'God's Eternal Assurance' does not make sense!

 

[beechan]

Amen! NOT our behavior, But Because of The Precious All-SUFFICIENT BLOOD Of The Wonderful SAVIOUR!! Amen? We righteous saints Have:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance


View attachment 92649

Matthew 22 The Parable of the Wedding Banquet teaches the otherwise:
Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’.......,,

But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.

13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

One has to prepare himself to join the wedding feast even though invited.
The right in the feast is not foreever, assured, guaranteed.


God's Eternal Assurance
God's Eternal Life Insurance is wrong teaching!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Had Judas lost his salvation?

Precious friend, a prayerful and Careful reading of "What Saith The Scriptures" Reveals

Judas Never believed!:​

​

"But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus Knew from the beginning​

who they were that believed not, and who should betray Him. (John 6:64 AV)​

+​

“Jesus Answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”​

(John 6:70 AV)​

​

Thus, God's Eternal Assurance Makes Perfect Sense! Amen!!

 

[beechan]

Precious friend, a prayerful and Careful reading of "What Saith The Scriptures" Reveals

Judas Never believed!:​

​

becasue the eternal assurance hit a rock with Judas case, so you made up such statement: Judas never believed from the beginning !

In Matthew 10:1–8, Jesus calls His twelve disciples—including Judas Iscariot gives them authority over unclean spirits, and sends them out to preach that the kingdom of heaven is at hand, heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons.

It is highly inconsistent to argue that someone who performed miracles, preached the Gospel, and was explicitly sent out by Jesus as an accredited ambassador of the Kingdom was an unregenerate 'devil' or unbeliever the entire time.

John 12:6 notes that Judas had the money bag and used to take what was put into it. Furthermore, during the Last Supper, when Jesus says one of them will betray Him, the other disciples do not point a finger at Judas and say, "Well, obviously him, he never believed." Instead, they are deeply confused and ask individually, "Lord, is it I?" (Matthew 26:22). This suggests he was viewed as a peer in faith, not an obvious outsider or unbeliever walking among them.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

the eternal assurance hit a rock with Judas case, so you made up such statement

Still Makes Perfect-God-Sense Because Scripture Further Declares The Following:

Christ Has Always "Known those That Are His," According To Rock-Solid Truth:

“Nevertheless The Foundation of God Standeth Sure, Having This Seal, ​

The Lord Knoweth them that are His. And, Let every one that nameth The​

Name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Timothy 2:19 AV)​

+​

"According As He Hath Chosen us In Him before the foundation of the​

world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"​

(Ephesians 1:4 AV)​

And, More Rock-Solid Truth Is When Three Books At Final Judgment Are Opened, we find That:

God Has Never Known "those that are NOT His", even though they "obeyed His Commandments"?:

​

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;​

but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that​

day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy Name? and in Thy Name have cast out devils?​

and in Thy Name done many wonderful works?​

And then will I profess unto them, I Never Knew you: Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."​

(Matthew 7:21-23 AV)​

Why? They, Also With Judas, Never believed !:

"...without faith it is impossible to please Him [ God! ]​

(Hebrews 11:6 AV) = Rock-Solid TRUTH, eh?​

Thus, there is no such "made-up" stuff as "Christ has always known believers that He has Never Known, eh?

Grace, Peace, Mercy, And Love! Amen!

 

[PinSeeker]

It is highly inconsistent to argue that someone who performed miracles, preached the Gospel, and was explicitly sent out by Jesus as an accredited ambassador of the Kingdom was an unregenerate 'devil' or unbeliever the entire time.

There will always be much debate over this, but I agree with you, beechan.

Yes, we cannot really say whether Judas was an unregenerate 'devil' or unbeliever, either before or after he betrayed Jesus. We really have nothing given to us anywhere in the Bible to say one way or the other about whether he was a believer or not. Even in John 6:64 or John 6:70. And like you say, he was chosen and called by Jesus, just like the other twelve... Matthias was eventually chosen to replace Judas... disciples/apostles. It's a valid point that there is no explicit repentance by Judas, but this is the case with several characters in the Bible, and there's also nothing that suggests he was not penitant. By the same token, there is never any explicit repentance made by Peter for denying Jesus. But Jesus says to all of them in John 15:16 ~ and Judas was present ~ "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide."

Again, this has been and will remain a debatable topic, and to be honest I have struggled with it within myself, but yes, I think Judas will be standing with us on Jesus's right in the final Judgment. <smile> But, you know, whether I am or anyone else is right or wrong about that doesn't really matter, does it? <smile>

Grace and peace to all.

 

[beechan]

There will always be much debate over this, but I agree with you, beechan.

Yes, we cannot really say whether Judas was an unregenerate 'devil' or unbeliever, either before or after he betrayed Jesus. We really have nothing given to us anywhere in the Bible to say one way or the other about whether he was a believer or not. Even in John 6:64 or John 6:70. And like you say, he was chosen and called by Jesus, just like the other twelve... Matthias was eventually chosen to replace Judas... disciples/apostles. It's a valid point that there is no explicit repentance by Judas, but this is the case with several characters in the Bible, and there's also nothing that suggests he was not penitant. By the same token, there is never any explicit repentance made by Peter for denying Jesus. But Jesus says to all of them in John 15:16 ~ and Judas was present ~ "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide."

Again, this has been and will remain a debatable topic, and to be honest I have struggled with it within myself, but yes, I think Judas will be standing with us on Jesus's right in the final Judgment. <smile> But, you know, whether I am or anyone else is right or wrong about that doesn't really matter, does it? <smile>

Grace and peace to all.

though I am not all agree with you. It is good to see you expressed your opinions and contributed to the thread.

 

[beechan]

Yes, we cannot really say whether Judas was an unregenerate 'devil' or unbeliever, either before or after he betrayed Jesus. We really have nothing given to us anywhere in the Bible to say one way or the other about whether he was a believer or not. Even in John 6:64 or John 6:70. And like you say, he was chosen and called by Jesus, just like the other twelve...

I think Judas will be standing with us on Jesus's right in the final Judgment.
Grace and peace to all.

You are saying Jesus chosed right from the beginning, an unbeliever, a devil to be his disciple. This disciple's mission was to betray him, to accompanish his plan?

OK, if Jesus knew Judas was a devil and NEVER believed, why HE allowed a devil to sit at his right side then?
(Just because he, the devil, did an undercover job well?)

 

[Stumpmaster]

It is highly inconsistent to argue that someone who performed miracles, preached the Gospel, and was explicitly sent out by Jesus as an accredited ambassador of the Kingdom was an unregenerate 'devil' or unbeliever the entire time.

And yet . . .

Mat 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven. (22) Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works? (23) And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!

Looks like works without faith don't enjoy God's Grace.

 

[beechan]

Looks like works without faith don't enjoy God's Grace.[/B]

How about faith without works?
and
Faith with works?
and , how about only good works, but without faith??

I think we all agree on 'no faith and no good work'!

Mat 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven

This statement strongly suggest only faith is not enough. faith + good works! Each is indispensable to the other.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I think Judas will be standing with us on Jesus's right in the final Judgment.

Interesting word, perdition . . . especially when linked to Foreknowledge, Predestination, Human Volition, & Divine Intervention.

Three notable figures connected with perdition are:

1. Judas Iscariot - called "the son of perdition" (John 17:12).
2. The Man of Sin / Antichrist - called "the son of perdition" (2 Thessalonians 2:3).
3. The Beast, the Eighth King - repeatedly said to "go into perdition" (Revelation 17:8, 11).

The expression son of perdition is a Hebrew-style idiom meaning one characterized by, destined for, or marked out for destruction. It is striking that the title is used explicitly only of Judas and the Man of Sin, while the eighth king/beast is described as going into perdition. This observation has led some interpreters to explore possible typological or prophetic connections between these figures, though Scripture does not explicitly identify them as the same person.
An interesting word study is that the Greek noun apōleia ("perdition," "destruction") is used in all these passages, emphasizing not mere physical death but ultimate divine judgment.

• Judas Iscariot
  Jesus referred to Judas as "the son of perdition":
  

  "Those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition..." (John 17:12, KJV)

  Judas earned this description because he betrayed Christ and ultimately perished in unbelief.
• The Man of Sin (Antichrist)
  Paul describes the future enemy of Christ as "the son of perdition":
  

  "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

 

[Stumpmaster]

How about faith without works?
and
Faith with works?
and , how about only good works, but without faith??

I think we all agree on 'no faith and no good work'!




This statement strongly suggest only faith is not enough. faith + good works! Each is indispensable to the other.

Still, works without faith are dead, and need to be repented of:

Hebrews 6:1 . . . not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

 

[beechan]

There will always be much debate over this, but I agree with you, beechan.

Yes, we cannot really say whether Judas was an unregenerate 'devil' or unbeliever, either before or after he betrayed Jesus. We really have nothing given to us anywhere in the Bible to say one way or the other about whether he was a believer or not. Even in John 6:64 or John 6:70. And like you say, he was chosen and called by Jesus, just like the other twelve... Matthias was eventually chosen to replace Judas... disciples/apostles. It's a valid point that there is no explicit repentance by Judas, but this is the case with several characters in the Bible, and there's also nothing that suggests he was not penitant. By the same token, there is never any explicit repentance made by Peter for denying Jesus. But Jesus says to all of them in John 15:16 ~ and Judas was present ~ "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide."
Grace and peace to all.

One more question for you.
If Judas never believed, he only acted and pretented to be a follower of Jesus.
Then why at the end , he felt so sorry and hanged himself as penance?

 

[rwb]

You are saying Jesus right from the beginning chosed an unbeliever, a devil to be his disciple. This disciple's mission was to betray him, to accompanish his plan?

OK, if Jesus knew Judas was a devil, why HE allowed a devil to sit at his right side then?
(Just because he, he deveil, did an undercover job well?)

The Bible gives us enough information regarding Judas Iscariot to know that, though he was chosen by Christ with the eleven, he was never chosen to be saved, because he was never made spiritually alive through the Spirit of Christ, who was with them. God allowed Judas, one of the chosen twelve, not for salvation but to be the one to betray Christ. Because without the cross and resurrection no man could overcome sin and defeat death. This can only be accomplished for those who are born of the Spirit of Christ, which is Christ in you.

John 13:18 (KJV) I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

Psalm 41:9 (KJV) Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

Lu 22:1 ¶ Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
Lu 22:2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
Lu 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Lu 22:4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
Lu 22:5 And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
Lu 22:6 And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.

Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[beechan]

The Bible gives us enough information regarding Judas Iscariot to know that, though he was chosen by Christ with the eleven, he was never chosen to be saved, because he was never made spiritually alive through the Spirit of Christ, who was with them. God allowed Judas, one of the chosen twelve, not for salvation but to be the one to betray Christ. Because without the cross and resurrection no man could overcome sin and defeat death. This can only be accomplished for those who are born of the Spirit of Christ, which is Christ in you.

John 13:18 (KJV) I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

Psalm 41:9 (KJV) Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

Lu 22:1 ¶ Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
Lu 22:2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
Lu 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Lu 22:4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
Lu 22:5 And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
Lu 22:6 And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.

Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

You whole post reads a modern theological system back into the text rather than letting scripture speak for itself. Labeling Judas as someone "never chosen to be saved" or "never made spiritually alive" turns him to fit your doctrine of OSAS!