Once Saved Always Saved ?

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RichardBurger

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Richard you see what you want your scripture supports no such thing nor does the Bible seems you are always calling the kettel black accusing if we dont agree with you...according to you we are insisting we are right you are doing that exact same thing Everyone can have an opinion but it really doesnt matter only Gods word matters I you want to prove your point address the scriptures we give proving differnt instead of attacking us for having an opinon based on scripture to the contrary ... The fact is you just can not ignore scripture to the contray just because it doesnt fit your opinon..Ours is as based in scripture as yours ... If you can not address all scripture for and against a subject all you have is a personal opinon based on one side of the argument ..and no ones opinion counts if its not Gods complete Word on it.
Christina, you see what you want your scriptures to say and support. Yet you want to critsize me for doing the same. Absolutly wonderfull. I agree we are doing the same thing but somehow you think you are on the top level and are right. You are right again when you say "Everyone can have an opinion but it really doesnt matter only Gods word matters" but to you your opinion is the only one that counts. Give me a break!That goes both ways, address the scriptures I gave and tell me what you think they mean. My scriptures tell me that I am kept by the power of God. Either we are kept by the power of God as my scriptures tell me or we are kept by WHAT? Where have you placed your faith?1 Peter 1:3-5 NKJV3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.Richard
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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And why do you say that because my opinon isnt yours ...You give me break... I never said my opinion was more important than yours thats in your head I said only Gods Word matters and as long as you have condradicting verses your not hearing Him Now I dont care what you read into scripture the verse's you give do not say once you are saved you are always saved.. all you have is a promise if you do not fall way then we are warned what will happen if we fall away ... and you cant prove any different ... "Get behind me I never knew you" ..these words are not OSAS ... believe what ever you like but I wont mislead people with your opinions
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(Christina;67386)
And why do you say that because my opinon isnt yours ...You give me break... I never said my opinion was more important than yours thats in your head I said only Gods Word matters and as long as you have condradicting verses your not hearing Him Now I dont care what you read into scripture the verse's you give do not say once you are saved you are always saved.. all you have is a promise if you do not fall way then we are warned what will happen if we fall away ... and you cant prove any different ... "Get behind me I never knew you" ..these words are not OSAS ... believe what ever you like but I wont mislead people with your opinions
Christina, you are 100% right, because we know Matthew 7:21-23 and John 14:15 are both said by Lord Yeshua (Jesus Christ) Both of them 100% does not even come close to say Once Save Always Saved. In fact, nowhere near The Word of God.And Lord Yeshua is God. (John 1:1) I rather take His Word oven men anyday, even RichardBurger.
 

Christina

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Christina, you see what you want your scriptures to say and support. Yet you want to critsize me for doing the same. Absolutly wonderfull. I agree we are doing the same thing but somehow you think you are on the top level and are right. You are right again when you say "Everyone can have an opinion but it really doesnt matter only Gods word matters" but to you your opinion is the only one that counts. Give me a break!That goes both ways, address the scriptures I gave and tell me what you think they mean. My scriptures tell me that I am kept by the power of God. Either we are kept by the power of God as my scriptures tell me or we are kept by WHAT? Where have you placed your faith?1 Peter 1:3-5 NKJV3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.Richard
notice we are kept through faith thats not OSAS its our part of the promise given ...we must stay in faith ,in the word or we have broken the promise not God you reading what you want to see if we fall from faith we no longer receive the promise Heres the difference between what we are saying you claim your verse prove OSAS I claim my verse say that there is NO OSAS ...we are both quoting scripture therefore we each have only a 50/50 % chance of being right ....Our goal then is to find what God says assuming that you believe as I do that there can be no contradictions in Gods Word and we have a contradiction here how do we solve it ....1. Believe your scriptures say what you say they do and Ignore all the ones that contradict them...and say the opposite 2. Believe my scriptures are right and they say what they say 3. Believe all the scriptures are right and there is no contradiction I chose #3 that all the scriptures you give are telling us of the promise Gods gives us if we believe Christ died for our sins keep the faith we will receive the promise he gave us However if we do not keep the faith if we stray away to a false god , if we leave him, he will let us go... we have broken the promise not him ... We have free will to break our part of the promise he gave to us... then he will say I never knew you The difference between me and you is want to stick to #1 and find no solution in Gods Word to find the answer to the contradiction you want to stay in your preconceived idea ..then you remain with 50% chance of being right if that's good enough for you fine but its not for me ... which is why I go with #3 and embrace all the scriptures and there is no contradiction..
 

RichardBurger

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Jan 23, 2008
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(Christina;67386)
And why do you say that because my opinon isnt yours ...You give me break... I never said my opinion was more important than yours thats in your head I said only Gods Word matters and as long as you have condradicting verses your not hearing Him Now I dont care what you read into scripture the verse's you give do not say once you are saved you are always saved.. all you have is a promise if you do not fall way then we are warned what will happen if we fall away ... and you cant prove any different ... "Get behind me I never knew you" ..these words are not OSAS ... believe what ever you like but I wont mislead people with your opinions
But you have in your last sentence.Let me get this straight, your opinions are the only ones that are correct and those believing in OSAS are just not hearing the scriptures. By your last sentence I believe you think you are on this thread to protect people from false teaching and anyone that disagrees with your opinion is misleading others. In my honest opinion I think that is arragance.Why don't you go all the way and call anyone that teaches OSAS is a heretic? To you, they are not hearing the word of God. But the same can be said of you.To bad we have to argue instead of discuss. But I can't discuss anything with a person that thinks they are the only one that is right and that, obviously, can't admit that someone else may be correct. All that is being done on this thread is a battle between scriptures and that is foolishness.I have stated what I believe and gave the scriptures that support it. Sorry you can't see them.Richard
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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I repeat notice we are kept through faith thats not OSAS its our part of the promise given ...we must stay in faith ,in the word or we have broken the promise not God you reading what you want to see if we fall from faith we no longer receive the promise Heres the difference between what we are saying you claim your verse prove OSAS I claim my verse say that there is NO OSAS ...we are both quoting scripture therefore we each have only a 50/50 % chance of being right ....Our goal then is to find what God says assuming that you believe as I do that there can be no contradictions in Gods Word and we have a contradiction here how do we solve it ....1. Believe your scriptures say what you say they do and Ignore all the ones that contradict them...and say the opposite 2. Believe my scriptures are right and they say what they say 3. Believe all the scriptures are right and there is no contradiction I chose #3 that all the scriptures you give are telling us of the promise Gods gives us if we believe Christ died for our sins keep the faith we will receive the promise he gave us However if we do not keep the faith if we stray away to a false god , if we leave him, he will let us go... we have broken the promise not him ... We have free will to break our part of the promise he gave to us... then he will say I never knew you The difference between me and you is want to stick to #1 and find no solution in Gods Word to find the answer to the contradiction you want to stay in your preconceived idea ..then you remain with 50% chance of being right if that's good enough for you fine but its not for me ... which is why I go with #3 and embrace all the scriptures and there is no contradiction..
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
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(Christina;67390)
(RichardBurger;67385)
Christina, you see what you want your scriptures to say and support. Yet you want to critsize me for doing the same. Absolutly wonderfull. I agree we are doing the same thing but somehow you think you are on the top level and are right. You are right again when you say "Everyone can have an opinion but it really doesnt matter only Gods word matters" but to you your opinion is the only one that counts. Give me a break!That goes both ways, address the scriptures I gave and tell me what you think they mean. My scriptures tell me that I am kept by the power of God. Either we are kept by the power of God as my scriptures tell me or we are kept by WHAT? Where have you placed your faith?1 Peter 1:3-5 NKJV3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.Richard
notice we are kept through faith thats not OSAS its our part of the promise given ...we must stay in faith ,in the word or we have broken the promise not God you reading what you want to see if we fall from faith we no longer receive the promise Heres the difference between what we are saying you claim your verse prove OSAS I claim my verse say that there is NO OSAS ...we are both quoting scripture therefore we each have only a 50/50 % chance of being right ....Our goal then is to find what God says assuming that you believe as I do that there can be no contradictions in Gods Word and we have a contradiction here how do we solve it ....1. Believe your scriptures say what you say they do and Ignore all the ones that contradict them...and say the opposite 2. Believe my scriptures are right and they say what they say 3. Believe all the scriptures are right and there is no contradiction I chose #3 that all the scriptures you give are telling us of the promise Gods gives us if we believe Christ died for our sins keep the faith we will receive the promise he gave us However if we do not keep the faith if we stray away to a false god , if we leave him, he will let us go... we have broken the promise not him ... We have free will to break our part of the promise he gave to us... then he will say I never knew you The difference between me and you is want to stick to #1 and find no solution in Gods Word to find the answer to the contradiction you want to stay in your preconceived idea ..then you remain with 50% chance of being right if that's good enough for you fine but its not for me ... which is why I go with #3 and embrace all the scriptures and there is no contradiction..Ditto ... some things will never change a single bit. It's a bit sad. but that's the full truth. It's also why I know my very soul is in danger, that's why I can't pick and choose what I want to believe. To do so reminds me of these verses. (Matthew 7:26-27)(RichardBurger;67391)
(Christina;67386)
And why do you say that because my opinon isnt yours ...You give me break... I never said my opinion was more important than yours thats in your head I said only Gods Word matters and as long as you have condradicting verses your not hearing Him Now I dont care what you read into scripture the verse's you give do not say once you are saved you are always saved.. all you have is a promise if you do not fall way then we are warned what will happen if we fall away ... and you cant prove any different ... "Get behind me I never knew you" ..these words are not OSAS ... believe what ever you like but I wont mislead people with your opinions
But you have in your last sentence.Let me get this straight, your opinions are the only ones that are correct and those believing in OSAS are just not hearing the scriptures. By your last sentence I believe you think you are on this thread to protect people from false teaching and anyone that disagrees with your opinion is misleading others. In my honest opinion I think that is arragance.Why don't you go all the way and call anyone that teaches OSAS is a heretic? To you, they are not hearing the word of God. But the same can be said of you.To bad we have to argue instead of discuss. But I can't discuss anything with a person that thinks they are the only one that is right and that, obviously, can't admit that someone else may be correct. All that is being done on this thread is a battle between scriptures and that is foolishness.I have stated what I believe and gave the scriptures that support it. Sorry you can't see them.RichardWhat you stated have nothing to do with OSAS... once again you are clear contradicting yourself. You want to stay in your traditions of men and not hear God. But it's your free will. Do you really think God will still save His people if they break their side of the contract with God?
 

RichardBurger

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Jan 23, 2008
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(Christina;67390)
notice we are kept through faith thats not OSAS its our part of the promise given ...we must stay in faith ,in the word or we have broken the promise not God you reading what you want to see if we fall from faith we no longer receive the promise Heres the difference between what we are saying you claim your verse prove OSAS I claim my verse say that there is NO OSAS ...we are both quoting scripture therefore we each have only a 50/50 % chance of being right ....Our goal then is to find what God says assuming that you believe as I do that there can be no contradictions in Gods Word and we have a contradiction here how do we solve it ....1. Believe your scriptures say what you say they do and Ignore all the ones that contradict them...and say the opposite 2. Believe my scriptures are right and they say what they say 3. Believe all the scriptures are right and there is no contradiction I chose #3 that all the scriptures you give are telling us of the promise Gods gives us if we believe Christ died for our sins keep the faith we will receive the promise he gave us However if we do not keep the faith if we stray away to a false god , if we leave him, he will let us go... we have broken the promise not him ... We have free will to break our part of the promise he gave to us... then he will say I never knew you The difference between me and you is want to stick to #1 and find no solution in Gods Word to find the answer to the contradiction you want to stay in your preconceived idea ..then you remain with 50% chance of being right if that's good enough for you fine but its not for me ... which is why I go with #3 and embrace all the scriptures and there is no contradiction..
I believe #3 also. There are no contradictions in scriptures, there is only contradictions in our understanding of them. Oh! I almost forgot, you do can not see that your understanding is in anyway wrong so you have no contradictions.But when you say that once we become a child of God we can be lost you undermine the power of God. Our salvation is not based on our ability to keep ourselves saved. In is entirely based on what Jesus did on the cross. If it is based on us then we are all going to hell.By the way, I just love your proof verse "then he will say I never knew you." How can He say He never knew His own child? He would be telling a lie wouldn't He?Just wonderful.Richard
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Then your just happy lying to yourself I guess everyone has given you scripture that contradicts you the very testing of the End times denys you you not only deny scripture but half the message of the New testament. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.
 

tomwebster

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Dec 11, 2006
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(RichardBurger;67395)
...But when you say that once we become a child of God we can be lost you undermine the power of God. Our salvation is not based on our ability to keep ourselves saved. In is entirely based on what Jesus did on the cross. If it is based on us then we are all going to hell.
You can not be lost but you can give up your faith and turn to a false god. That is what apostasy is, you can not commit apostacy if you were not a believer first. You fall away from the faith.
By the way, I just love your proof verse "then he will say I never knew you." How can He say He never knew His own child? He would be telling a lie wouldn't He?Just wonderful.Richard
So are you infering that God did not say this? Again it comes back to what is salvation.
1 Peter 1:3-5 NKJV3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
I don't know why you started at verse three. Verse 1 and 2 tell you who the letter is being written to. It is being addressed to the "elect." They were justified by their actions in the first earth age. But that might be going too far for some.
 

logabe

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Aug 28, 2008
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I have a question. The Levite priests...are theygoing to HELL?LogabeP.S. By the way...glad to be back. I love all.
 

tomwebster

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I have a question. The Levite priests...are theygoing to HELL?LogabeP.S. By the way...glad to be back. I love all.
That is God's decision, He is the judge.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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I have a question. The Levite priests...are theygoing to HELL?LogabeP.S. By the way...glad to be back. I love all.
I Peter 3:18 - For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:I Peter 3:19 - By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;I Peter 3:20 - Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.Well Christ died for all the sins of the people that died before Christ was born and Christ before death as well... so I can't make that judgment call either.
 

logabe

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According to the post I have been reading...I think there going to HELL. Sounds like theywill need a fire suit. They ain't got a chance in HELL.Logabe P.S. Thank's for the reply Jordan and Tom.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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According to the post I have been reading...I think there going to HELL. Sounds like theywill need a fire suit. They ain't got a chance in HELL.Logabe P.S. Thank's for the reply Jordan and Tom.
Your welcome, the true nature of Hell, which is the Lake of Fire, is death. Death means cease to exist. So there will be no fireproof suit...
 

logabe

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Well, them Levites are going to DIE. Thank's Jordanfor your input.Logabe
 

Jordan

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Well, them Levites are going to DIE. Thank's Jordanfor your input.Logabe
But we can't judge a soul at all... it's not our place for us to do so. Christ judge not a man in His time as flesh. (John 8:15) This is only God's decision to make. No one else's.
 

logabe

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1st Cor. 6:2-32 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?Jordan, let the Christians on this forum know what thesescriptures mean. LogabeP.S. Thank's for your reply Jordan.
 

Jordan

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1st Cor. 6:2-32 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?Jordan, let the Christians on this forum know what thesescriptures mean. LogabeP.S. Thank's for your reply Jordan.
I know what they mean, this is NOT aiming for any flesh human to judge at all. This is after every flesh body cease to exist.
 

logabe

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No Jordan...I'm talking about judging the "world" which is judging people that are in the flesh. Let the Christians know on this forum what Paul was talking about.Logabe