God No One Has Seen At Any Time

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ByGraceThroughFaith

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God No One Has Seen At Any Time

“Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο” (John 1:18)

“God no one hath ever seen; the Unique God, who is always close to the Father; He has revealed”

This verse is used by some as “proof”, that Jesus Christ cannot be “God”. It is argued, that John is clear here, that no one has ever seen God. Is this correct?

Reading this verse shows this to be wrong. Here we have in the oldest and best textual evidence, dating from the early 2nd century, even in the Gospel of John used by the early heretics. There is no doubt that the Apostle John wrote, “Θεὸν...μονογενὴς Θεὸς”. It should also be noted, that in both places, the noun, “Θεὸς”, is used without the definite Greek article “τὸν Θεόν...Θεὸς”, as John does in 1:1, “καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος” (and the Word was God). Do we translate John 1:18 as, “god no one has ever seen...the Unique god”? No!

It is very clear from John 1:18, that John is here speaking of the Father, who has never been seen, as “Θεὸν”, is here “τοῦ Πατρὸς” (the Father), Whom Jesus is always close to. In John 6:46, Jesus makes this very clear: “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God. He has seen the Father”. Jesus here speaks of His eternal existence with God the Father, as we see the same Greek “ὢν”, as in 1:18, which is in the present, continuous tense. Also Jesus says that He is “from God” the Father, which is the preposition, “παρα”, that is, “besides, along side”.

In Exodus chapter 33, we read, “and Yahweh said to Moses...You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live” (verses 17, 20). Yet, in verse 11 it says, “So Yahweh spoke to Moses Face to face, as a man speaks to his friend”. “pānîm ’el-pānîm”, can also mean, “Person to person”. It is clear that Yahweh here is Speaking directly to Moses, as do friends with each other. The detailed description shows that it is not a dream or vision. In verse 9 we read, “the pillar of cloud descended and stood at the door of the tabernacle”, and 10, “All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and worshipped, each man in his tent door”. Yahweh was in this Pillar of cloud, Whom Moses saw. In Deuteronomy 34:10, we read, “No prophet has arisen again in Israel like Moses, whom Yahweh knew Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm)”. It is clear from Exodus 33, that there are TWO Persons Who are Yahweh. The One Who meets Moses “Face to face”, as do humans when they meet each other; and the Other, Who says that no one can ever see His Face and live! The One is Jesus Christ, and the Other, The Father. There is no other explanation for this passage.

In Genesis 32, we read, “Jacob was left alone, and a Man wrestled with him until daybreak” (verse 24). This “Man” Who Jacob wrestled with, was actually “physically” with him. In verse 30, Jacob says, “Jacob then named the place Peniel, For I have seen God Face to face (’ĕlōhîm pānîm ’el-pānîm), he said, and I have been delivered”. Jacob is clear that the “Man”, Whom he wrestled with, is none other than Almighty God.

In Numbers 14:14, “They will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that You, Lord, are among these people, how You, Yahweh, are seen Face to face (‘ayin bə‘ayin, Eye to eye), how Your cloud stands over them, and how You go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night”

Deuteronomy 5:4, “Yahweh spoke to you Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm) from the fire on the mountain”

All these Encounters are without doubt, directly with Almighty God Himself. Who is Yahweh. As this cannot be the Father, it can only be the pre-Incarnational Appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ, know as Theophanies, or Christophanies.

We also have the actual Visit from Yahweh to Abraham, in Genesis chapters 17-19, were we read of Yahweh having his “feet washed”, “eating food”, and “walking with Abraham”; all of which shows that this was not a “dream or vision”, but Yahweh actually with Abraham and Sarah.

In the 6th chapter in the Book of Judges, where we have “The Angel of Yahweh (Mal'âk Ye hôvâh)”, Visit Gideon. In verse 12 we read, “Then the Angel of Yahweh Appeared to him and said: “Yahweh is with you, mighty warrior”. Here “The Angel of Yahweh”, Speaks of Another Who is “Yahweh”. In verse 14 it says, “Yahweh looked (pânâh, to face) upon him and said”, showing “physical” contact. Gideon addresses “The Angel”, “Please, Lord (, the Name used for God), how can I deliver Israel?” (verse 15). Note that “Lord” here is, “’Aḏōnāy”, and not, “’ăḏōnê”. Clearly Gideon knows who this Mal'âk Ye hôvâh is. In the next verse, the Angel replies, “But I will be with you, the Lord said to him”. Here “LORD” is “Ye hôvâh”, Who is The Angel of Ye hôvâh! “I will be”, is in the Hebrew, “hâyâh”, which is the same in Exodus 3:14, “I AM”. Here we have The Angel of Yahweh, Who is also Yahweh, who says to Gideon, “I Am with you”. Language that is impossible for any created being to use! In verse 22 Gideon says, “When Gideon realized that He was the Angel of the Lord, he said, Oh no, Lord God (literally, ’Aḏōnāy Ye hôvâh) I have seen the Angel of the Lord Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm)”. Gideon is assured by Yahweh Himself, “But Yahweh said to him, Peace to you. Don’t be afraid, for you will not die” (verse 23). If this Angel of Yahweh, were a created angel, then Yahweh would not have told Gideon, “Don’t be afraid, for you will not die”, as only those who see God Face to face, will die! Nothing can be clearer from this passage in Judges, that The Angel of Yahweh, Who is clearly distinct from Yahweh, and Himself Yahweh, is The Lord Jesus Christ.

In Malachi 3:1, there is a Prophecy of the First Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

“See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the Way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His temple, the Messenger of the Covenant you desire—see, He is Coming,” says Yahweh of Hosts”

This is a very interesting verse. The Speaker here is “Yahweh of Hosts”. The first “messenger” is to clear the Way for Him, “he will clear the Way before Me”. We then have “hā 'Adônây” (The Lord, not, “Adôn”, Who is here “Mal'âk be rı̂yth” (The Messenger of the Covenant). This “Messenger” is also Coming.

In the Gospels (Matthew 11:10, etc), Jesus Christ quotes from the verse, but makes a change to the personal pronoun. Instead of “Me (μου)”, we have “You (σου). By doing so, Jesus here makes Himself the Speaker in Malachi 3:1, Who is “Yahweh of Hosts”, and He says that John the Baptist, went before Him, to prepare His Way, and that Her is “The Messenger of the Covenant”. This is one of the strongest Testimonies by Jesus Christ, to His own Absolute Deity, as “Yahweh of Hosts”. Nothing else can account for the change of the pronoun by Jesus! Matthew 3:3, etc, with Isaiah 40:3, confirms the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Coming of Yahweh/Elohim.

Jesus Christ clearly identifies Himself as “The Messenger of Yahweh”, in the Old Testament, Who is Himself also Yahweh. Those who still argue that there is only One Person in the Bible, Who is Yahweh, and that this is the Father, are proven to be wrong from the Bible! There is no escaping the facts as taught in the Bible, that BOTH Jesus Christ, and the Father are Yahweh, but not the same Person. The Person Who Spoke with Moses FACE TO FACE, and Who is the “Man” Who Appeared to Gideon, is Yahweh. Yet we are also told that no human can see God and live. We have seen that this refers ONLY to God the Father.
 

Randy Kluth

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God No One Has Seen At Any Time

“Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο” (John 1:18)

“God no one hath ever seen; the Unique God, who is always close to the Father; He has revealed”

This verse is used by some as “proof”, that Jesus Christ cannot be “God”. It is argued, that John is clear here, that no one has ever seen God. Is this correct?

Reading this verse shows this to be wrong. Here we have in the oldest and best textual evidence, dating from the early 2nd century, even in the Gospel of John used by the early heretics. There is no doubt that the Apostle John wrote, “Θεὸν...μονογενὴς Θεὸς”. It should also be noted, that in both places, the noun, “Θεὸς”, is used without the definite Greek article “τὸν Θεόν...Θεὸς”, as John does in 1:1, “καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος” (and the Word was God). Do we translate John 1:18 as, “god no one has ever seen...the Unique god”? No!

It is very clear from John 1:18, that John is here speaking of the Father, who has never been seen, as “Θεὸν”, is here “τοῦ Πατρὸς” (the Father), Whom Jesus is always close to. In John 6:46, Jesus makes this very clear: “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God. He has seen the Father”. Jesus here speaks of His eternal existence with God the Father, as we see the same Greek “ὢν”, as in 1:18, which is in the present, continuous tense. Also Jesus says that He is “from God” the Father, which is the preposition, “παρα”, that is, “besides, along side”.

In Exodus chapter 33, we read, “and Yahweh said to Moses...You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live” (verses 17, 20). Yet, in verse 11 it says, “So Yahweh spoke to Moses Face to face, as a man speaks to his friend”. “pānîm ’el-pānîm”, can also mean, “Person to person”. It is clear that Yahweh here is Speaking directly to Moses, as do friends with each other. The detailed description shows that it is not a dream or vision. In verse 9 we read, “the pillar of cloud descended and stood at the door of the tabernacle”, and 10, “All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and worshipped, each man in his tent door”. Yahweh was in this Pillar of cloud, Whom Moses saw. In Deuteronomy 34:10, we read, “No prophet has arisen again in Israel like Moses, whom Yahweh knew Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm)”. It is clear from Exodus 33, that there are TWO Persons Who are Yahweh. The One Who meets Moses “Face to face”, as do humans when they meet each other; and the Other, Who says that no one can ever see His Face and live! The One is Jesus Christ, and the Other, The Father. There is no other explanation for this passage.

In Genesis 32, we read, “Jacob was left alone, and a Man wrestled with him until daybreak” (verse 24). This “Man” Who Jacob wrestled with, was actually “physically” with him. In verse 30, Jacob says, “Jacob then named the place Peniel, For I have seen God Face to face (’ĕlōhîm pānîm ’el-pānîm), he said, and I have been delivered”. Jacob is clear that the “Man”, Whom he wrestled with, is none other than Almighty God.

In Numbers 14:14, “They will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that You, Lord, are among these people, how You, Yahweh, are seen Face to face (‘ayin bə‘ayin, Eye to eye), how Your cloud stands over them, and how You go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night”

Deuteronomy 5:4, “Yahweh spoke to you Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm) from the fire on the mountain”

All these Encounters are without doubt, directly with Almighty God Himself. Who is Yahweh. As this cannot be the Father, it can only be the pre-Incarnational Appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ, know as Theophanies, or Christophanies.

We also have the actual Visit from Yahweh to Abraham, in Genesis chapters 17-19, were we read of Yahweh having his “feet washed”, “eating food”, and “walking with Abraham”; all of which shows that this was not a “dream or vision”, but Yahweh actually with Abraham and Sarah.

In the 6th chapter in the Book of Judges, where we have “The Angel of Yahweh (Mal'âk Ye hôvâh)”, Visit Gideon. In verse 12 we read, “Then the Angel of Yahweh Appeared to him and said: “Yahweh is with you, mighty warrior”. Here “The Angel of Yahweh”, Speaks of Another Who is “Yahweh”. In verse 14 it says, “Yahweh looked (pânâh, to face) upon him and said”, showing “physical” contact. Gideon addresses “The Angel”, “Please, Lord (, the Name used for God), how can I deliver Israel?” (verse 15). Note that “Lord” here is, “’Aḏōnāy”, and not, “’ăḏōnê”. Clearly Gideon knows who this Mal'âk Ye hôvâh is. In the next verse, the Angel replies, “But I will be with you, the Lord said to him”. Here “LORD” is “Ye hôvâh”, Who is The Angel of Ye hôvâh! “I will be”, is in the Hebrew, “hâyâh”, which is the same in Exodus 3:14, “I AM”. Here we have The Angel of Yahweh, Who is also Yahweh, who says to Gideon, “I Am with you”. Language that is impossible for any created being to use! In verse 22 Gideon says, “When Gideon realized that He was the Angel of the Lord, he said, Oh no, Lord God (literally, ’Aḏōnāy Ye hôvâh) I have seen the Angel of the Lord Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm)”. Gideon is assured by Yahweh Himself, “But Yahweh said to him, Peace to you. Don’t be afraid, for you will not die” (verse 23). If this Angel of Yahweh, were a created angel, then Yahweh would not have told Gideon, “Don’t be afraid, for you will not die”, as only those who see God Face to face, will die! Nothing can be clearer from this passage in Judges, that The Angel of Yahweh, Who is clearly distinct from Yahweh, and Himself Yahweh, is The Lord Jesus Christ.

In Malachi 3:1, there is a Prophecy of the First Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

“See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the Way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His temple, the Messenger of the Covenant you desire—see, He is Coming,” says Yahweh of Hosts”

This is a very interesting verse. The Speaker here is “Yahweh of Hosts”. The first “messenger” is to clear the Way for Him, “he will clear the Way before Me”. We then have “hā 'Adônây” (The Lord, not, “Adôn”, Who is here “Mal'âk be rı̂yth” (The Messenger of the Covenant). This “Messenger” is also Coming.

In the Gospels (Matthew 11:10, etc), Jesus Christ quotes from the verse, but makes a change to the personal pronoun. Instead of “Me (μου)”, we have “You (σου). By doing so, Jesus here makes Himself the Speaker in Malachi 3:1, Who is “Yahweh of Hosts”, and He says that John the Baptist, went before Him, to prepare His Way, and that Her is “The Messenger of the Covenant”. This is one of the strongest Testimonies by Jesus Christ, to His own Absolute Deity, as “Yahweh of Hosts”. Nothing else can account for the change of the pronoun by Jesus! Matthew 3:3, etc, with Isaiah 40:3, confirms the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Coming of Yahweh/Elohim.

Jesus Christ clearly identifies Himself as “The Messenger of Yahweh”, in the Old Testament, Who is Himself also Yahweh. Those who still argue that there is only One Person in the Bible, Who is Yahweh, and that this is the Father, are proven to be wrong from the Bible! There is no escaping the facts as taught in the Bible, that BOTH Jesus Christ, and the Father are Yahweh, but not the same Person. The Person Who Spoke with Moses FACE TO FACE, and Who is the “Man” Who Appeared to Gideon, is Yahweh. Yet we are also told that no human can see God and live. We have seen that this refers ONLY to God the Father.

Yea, I agree, though you appear to have a much better understanding of these particular issues. Though the OT doesn't use "Persons" in these arguments, as if it is referring to Trinitarian Theology, it is in effect the same thing. By indicating a seeming inconsistency by an inability to see God and an ability to see God, we in effect have the Hebrew acceptance of an infinite God, as Greek philosophy also says. And we also have the Hebrew embrace of direct spiritual contact with God, through the transmission of divine activity to the finite level of Man. The Apostle John made this distinction between infinite Deity and finite expression of Deity by inferring the distinction between God and His Word and by then uniting them. "The Word was with God," and "the Word was God."
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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Yea, I agree, though you appear to have a much better understanding of these particular issues. Though the OT doesn't use "Persons" in these arguments, as if it is referring to Trinitarian Theology, it is in effect the same thing. By indicating a seeming inconsistency by an inability to see God and an ability to see God, we in effect have the Hebrew acceptance of an infinite God, as Greek philosophy also says. And we also have the Hebrew embrace of direct spiritual contact with God, through the transmission of divine activity to the finite level of Man. The Apostle John made this distinction between infinite Deity and finite expression of Deity by inferring the distinction between God and His Word and by then uniting them. "The Word was with God," and "the Word was God."

In Genesis 18:1-3, we read:

Yahweh appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day. He lifted up his eyes and looked, and saw that three men stood near him. When he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself to the earth, and said, “My lord, if now I have found favor in your sight, please don’t go away from your servant.

Here it is clear that Yahweh actually Visited Abraham and Sarah. in verse 2 Yahweh is identified together with the 2 others who were with Him, as "men", the Hebrew "אישׁ", a masculine noun, which is used for "persons", as opposed to "things". No doubt when Abraham saw Yahweh, He would have "looked" like the 2 who He was with. Yahweh had His feet washed and ate and drank with Abraham and Sarah, and was accompanied by Abraham. All of which shows that Yahweh was not some "spiritual" being here, nor was this a "dream or vision".

John 1:1 shows that Jesus Christ and God the Father, Who He is eternally WITH, is also God. Both coequal
 

Randy Kluth

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In Genesis 18:1-3, we read:

Yahweh appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day. He lifted up his eyes and looked, and saw that three men stood near him. When he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself to the earth, and said, “My lord, if now I have found favor in your sight, please don’t go away from your servant.

Here it is clear that Yahweh actually Visited Abraham and Sarah. in verse 2 Yahweh is identified together with the 2 others who were with Him, as "men", the Hebrew "אישׁ", a masculine noun, which is used for "persons", as opposed to "things". No doubt when Abraham saw Yahweh, He would have "looked" like the 2 who He was with. Yahweh had His feet washed and ate and drank with Abraham and Sarah, and was accompanied by Abraham. All of which shows that Yahweh was not some "spiritual" being here, nor was this a "dream or vision".

John 1:1 shows that Jesus Christ and God the Father, Who He is eternally WITH, is also God. Both coequal

Yes, that's what I was trying to say, that the infinite God has the capacity, as almighty God, to reduce Himself to a finite level which enables us to encounter Him as God, albeit in a lesser form. God could indeed become a Man, when He was made into a Man.

In this way it remains true that no man can see God in His infinite existence. But we can also meet Him "face to face" when He appears as Himself on our level, whether that be the Man Christ, a theophany, in the form of an angel, or simply as a revealed word to us.

We can indeed experience the infinite God by God enabling it to be so. We don't have to see Him as the infinite God in order to meet Him "face to face" or to experience Him. We can "know Him" simply when He chooses to reveal Himself to us on a level we can understand and experience.

Indeed, the whole idea of the Incarnation presents this fact to us, that God can become a finite Man and still be the infinite God. He came to us so that we can know God in eternal life through him.

Indeed the whole idea of redemption requires that we be enabled to experience Christ's gift of righteousness. Otherwise, we would not be able to produce the fruits of his own goodness.
 
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quietthinker

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God No One Has Seen At Any Time

“Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο” (John 1:18)

“God no one hath ever seen; the Unique God, who is always close to the Father; He has revealed”

This verse is used by some as “proof”, that Jesus Christ cannot be “God”. It is argued, that John is clear here, that no one has ever seen God. Is this correct?

Reading this verse shows this to be wrong. Here we have in the oldest and best textual evidence, dating from the early 2nd century, even in the Gospel of John used by the early heretics. There is no doubt that the Apostle John wrote, “Θεὸν...μονογενὴς Θεὸς”. It should also be noted, that in both places, the noun, “Θεὸς”, is used without the definite Greek article “τὸν Θεόν...Θεὸς”, as John does in 1:1, “καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος” (and the Word was God). Do we translate John 1:18 as, “god no one has ever seen...the Unique god”? No!

It is very clear from John 1:18, that John is here speaking of the Father, who has never been seen, as “Θεὸν”, is here “τοῦ Πατρὸς” (the Father), Whom Jesus is always close to. In John 6:46, Jesus makes this very clear: “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God. He has seen the Father”. Jesus here speaks of His eternal existence with God the Father, as we see the same Greek “ὢν”, as in 1:18, which is in the present, continuous tense. Also Jesus says that He is “from God” the Father, which is the preposition, “παρα”, that is, “besides, along side”.

In Exodus chapter 33, we read, “and Yahweh said to Moses...You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live” (verses 17, 20). Yet, in verse 11 it says, “So Yahweh spoke to Moses Face to face, as a man speaks to his friend”. “pānîm ’el-pānîm”, can also mean, “Person to person”. It is clear that Yahweh here is Speaking directly to Moses, as do friends with each other. The detailed description shows that it is not a dream or vision. In verse 9 we read, “the pillar of cloud descended and stood at the door of the tabernacle”, and 10, “All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and worshipped, each man in his tent door”. Yahweh was in this Pillar of cloud, Whom Moses saw. In Deuteronomy 34:10, we read, “No prophet has arisen again in Israel like Moses, whom Yahweh knew Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm)”. It is clear from Exodus 33, that there are TWO Persons Who are Yahweh. The One Who meets Moses “Face to face”, as do humans when they meet each other; and the Other, Who says that no one can ever see His Face and live! The One is Jesus Christ, and the Other, The Father. There is no other explanation for this passage.

In Genesis 32, we read, “Jacob was left alone, and a Man wrestled with him until daybreak” (verse 24). This “Man” Who Jacob wrestled with, was actually “physically” with him. In verse 30, Jacob says, “Jacob then named the place Peniel, For I have seen God Face to face (’ĕlōhîm pānîm ’el-pānîm), he said, and I have been delivered”. Jacob is clear that the “Man”, Whom he wrestled with, is none other than Almighty God.

In Numbers 14:14, “They will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that You, Lord, are among these people, how You, Yahweh, are seen Face to face (‘ayin bə‘ayin, Eye to eye), how Your cloud stands over them, and how You go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night”

Deuteronomy 5:4, “Yahweh spoke to you Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm) from the fire on the mountain”

All these Encounters are without doubt, directly with Almighty God Himself. Who is Yahweh. As this cannot be the Father, it can only be the pre-Incarnational Appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ, know as Theophanies, or Christophanies.

We also have the actual Visit from Yahweh to Abraham, in Genesis chapters 17-19, were we read of Yahweh having his “feet washed”, “eating food”, and “walking with Abraham”; all of which shows that this was not a “dream or vision”, but Yahweh actually with Abraham and Sarah.

In the 6th chapter in the Book of Judges, where we have “The Angel of Yahweh (Mal'âk Ye hôvâh)”, Visit Gideon. In verse 12 we read, “Then the Angel of Yahweh Appeared to him and said: “Yahweh is with you, mighty warrior”. Here “The Angel of Yahweh”, Speaks of Another Who is “Yahweh”. In verse 14 it says, “Yahweh looked (pânâh, to face) upon him and said”, showing “physical” contact. Gideon addresses “The Angel”, “Please, Lord (, the Name used for God), how can I deliver Israel?” (verse 15). Note that “Lord” here is, “’Aḏōnāy”, and not, “’ăḏōnê”. Clearly Gideon knows who this Mal'âk Ye hôvâh is. In the next verse, the Angel replies, “But I will be with you, the Lord said to him”. Here “LORD” is “Ye hôvâh”, Who is The Angel of Ye hôvâh! “I will be”, is in the Hebrew, “hâyâh”, which is the same in Exodus 3:14, “I AM”. Here we have The Angel of Yahweh, Who is also Yahweh, who says to Gideon, “I Am with you”. Language that is impossible for any created being to use! In verse 22 Gideon says, “When Gideon realized that He was the Angel of the Lord, he said, Oh no, Lord God (literally, ’Aḏōnāy Ye hôvâh) I have seen the Angel of the Lord Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm)”. Gideon is assured by Yahweh Himself, “But Yahweh said to him, Peace to you. Don’t be afraid, for you will not die” (verse 23). If this Angel of Yahweh, were a created angel, then Yahweh would not have told Gideon, “Don’t be afraid, for you will not die”, as only those who see God Face to face, will die! Nothing can be clearer from this passage in Judges, that The Angel of Yahweh, Who is clearly distinct from Yahweh, and Himself Yahweh, is The Lord Jesus Christ.

In Malachi 3:1, there is a Prophecy of the First Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

“See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the Way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His temple, the Messenger of the Covenant you desire—see, He is Coming,” says Yahweh of Hosts”

This is a very interesting verse. The Speaker here is “Yahweh of Hosts”. The first “messenger” is to clear the Way for Him, “he will clear the Way before Me”. We then have “hā 'Adônây” (The Lord, not, “Adôn”, Who is here “Mal'âk be rı̂yth” (The Messenger of the Covenant). This “Messenger” is also Coming.

In the Gospels (Matthew 11:10, etc), Jesus Christ quotes from the verse, but makes a change to the personal pronoun. Instead of “Me (μου)”, we have “You (σου). By doing so, Jesus here makes Himself the Speaker in Malachi 3:1, Who is “Yahweh of Hosts”, and He says that John the Baptist, went before Him, to prepare His Way, and that Her is “The Messenger of the Covenant”. This is one of the strongest Testimonies by Jesus Christ, to His own Absolute Deity, as “Yahweh of Hosts”. Nothing else can account for the change of the pronoun by Jesus! Matthew 3:3, etc, with Isaiah 40:3, confirms the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Coming of Yahweh/Elohim.

Jesus Christ clearly identifies Himself as “The Messenger of Yahweh”, in the Old Testament, Who is Himself also Yahweh. Those who still argue that there is only One Person in the Bible, Who is Yahweh, and that this is the Father, are proven to be wrong from the Bible! There is no escaping the facts as taught in the Bible, that BOTH Jesus Christ, and the Father are Yahweh, but not the same Person. The Person Who Spoke with Moses FACE TO FACE, and Who is the “Man” Who Appeared to Gideon, is Yahweh. Yet we are also told that no human can see God and live. We have seen that this refers ONLY to God the Father.
Good reason to listen to him?.....ie, the only one who has seen the Father!

Edit....one second thoughts, maybe AJ? ...after all, she deems herself a Jehovah's Witness!
 
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theefaith

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Is there a difference between righteousness and imputed righteousness?

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

why is imputed left out?
 

dev553344

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The following was written 2,000 years ago, and because of Christ's redemption of man you can now see God if he so chooses:

Matthew 5:8

King James Version


8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
 
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theefaith

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The following was written 2,000 years ago, and because of Christ's redemption of man you can now see God if he so chooses:

Matthew 5:8

King James Version


8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Mary cos of Her being created by God immaculate (Lk 1:49) has always enjoyed the beatific vision of God in heaven, (Matt 5:8) Her intense, pure, and perfect love of God caused Her to make a sacrifice of her entire being and life to God Forever!
Lk 1:46
 
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ChristisGod

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God No One Has Seen At Any Time

“Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο” (John 1:18)

“God no one hath ever seen; the Unique God, who is always close to the Father; He has revealed”

This verse is used by some as “proof”, that Jesus Christ cannot be “God”. It is argued, that John is clear here, that no one has ever seen God. Is this correct?

Reading this verse shows this to be wrong. Here we have in the oldest and best textual evidence, dating from the early 2nd century, even in the Gospel of John used by the early heretics. There is no doubt that the Apostle John wrote, “Θεὸν...μονογενὴς Θεὸς”. It should also be noted, that in both places, the noun, “Θεὸς”, is used without the definite Greek article “τὸν Θεόν...Θεὸς”, as John does in 1:1, “καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος” (and the Word was God). Do we translate John 1:18 as, “god no one has ever seen...the Unique god”? No!

It is very clear from John 1:18, that John is here speaking of the Father, who has never been seen, as “Θεὸν”, is here “τοῦ Πατρὸς” (the Father), Whom Jesus is always close to. In John 6:46, Jesus makes this very clear: “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God. He has seen the Father”. Jesus here speaks of His eternal existence with God the Father, as we see the same Greek “ὢν”, as in 1:18, which is in the present, continuous tense. Also Jesus says that He is “from God” the Father, which is the preposition, “παρα”, that is, “besides, along side”.

In Exodus chapter 33, we read, “and Yahweh said to Moses...You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live” (verses 17, 20). Yet, in verse 11 it says, “So Yahweh spoke to Moses Face to face, as a man speaks to his friend”. “pānîm ’el-pānîm”, can also mean, “Person to person”. It is clear that Yahweh here is Speaking directly to Moses, as do friends with each other. The detailed description shows that it is not a dream or vision. In verse 9 we read, “the pillar of cloud descended and stood at the door of the tabernacle”, and 10, “All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and worshipped, each man in his tent door”. Yahweh was in this Pillar of cloud, Whom Moses saw. In Deuteronomy 34:10, we read, “No prophet has arisen again in Israel like Moses, whom Yahweh knew Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm)”. It is clear from Exodus 33, that there are TWO Persons Who are Yahweh. The One Who meets Moses “Face to face”, as do humans when they meet each other; and the Other, Who says that no one can ever see His Face and live! The One is Jesus Christ, and the Other, The Father. There is no other explanation for this passage.

In Genesis 32, we read, “Jacob was left alone, and a Man wrestled with him until daybreak” (verse 24). This “Man” Who Jacob wrestled with, was actually “physically” with him. In verse 30, Jacob says, “Jacob then named the place Peniel, For I have seen God Face to face (’ĕlōhîm pānîm ’el-pānîm), he said, and I have been delivered”. Jacob is clear that the “Man”, Whom he wrestled with, is none other than Almighty God.

In Numbers 14:14, “They will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that You, Lord, are among these people, how You, Yahweh, are seen Face to face (‘ayin bə‘ayin, Eye to eye), how Your cloud stands over them, and how You go before them in a pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night”

Deuteronomy 5:4, “Yahweh spoke to you Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm) from the fire on the mountain”

All these Encounters are without doubt, directly with Almighty God Himself. Who is Yahweh. As this cannot be the Father, it can only be the pre-Incarnational Appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ, know as Theophanies, or Christophanies.

We also have the actual Visit from Yahweh to Abraham, in Genesis chapters 17-19, were we read of Yahweh having his “feet washed”, “eating food”, and “walking with Abraham”; all of which shows that this was not a “dream or vision”, but Yahweh actually with Abraham and Sarah.

In the 6th chapter in the Book of Judges, where we have “The Angel of Yahweh (Mal'âk Ye hôvâh)”, Visit Gideon. In verse 12 we read, “Then the Angel of Yahweh Appeared to him and said: “Yahweh is with you, mighty warrior”. Here “The Angel of Yahweh”, Speaks of Another Who is “Yahweh”. In verse 14 it says, “Yahweh looked (pânâh, to face) upon him and said”, showing “physical” contact. Gideon addresses “The Angel”, “Please, Lord (, the Name used for God), how can I deliver Israel?” (verse 15). Note that “Lord” here is, “’Aḏōnāy”, and not, “’ăḏōnê”. Clearly Gideon knows who this Mal'âk Ye hôvâh is. In the next verse, the Angel replies, “But I will be with you, the Lord said to him”. Here “LORD” is “Ye hôvâh”, Who is The Angel of Ye hôvâh! “I will be”, is in the Hebrew, “hâyâh”, which is the same in Exodus 3:14, “I AM”. Here we have The Angel of Yahweh, Who is also Yahweh, who says to Gideon, “I Am with you”. Language that is impossible for any created being to use! In verse 22 Gideon says, “When Gideon realized that He was the Angel of the Lord, he said, Oh no, Lord God (literally, ’Aḏōnāy Ye hôvâh) I have seen the Angel of the Lord Face to face (pānîm ’el-pānîm)”. Gideon is assured by Yahweh Himself, “But Yahweh said to him, Peace to you. Don’t be afraid, for you will not die” (verse 23). If this Angel of Yahweh, were a created angel, then Yahweh would not have told Gideon, “Don’t be afraid, for you will not die”, as only those who see God Face to face, will die! Nothing can be clearer from this passage in Judges, that The Angel of Yahweh, Who is clearly distinct from Yahweh, and Himself Yahweh, is The Lord Jesus Christ.

In Malachi 3:1, there is a Prophecy of the First Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

“See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the Way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His temple, the Messenger of the Covenant you desire—see, He is Coming,” says Yahweh of Hosts”

This is a very interesting verse. The Speaker here is “Yahweh of Hosts”. The first “messenger” is to clear the Way for Him, “he will clear the Way before Me”. We then have “hā 'Adônây” (The Lord, not, “Adôn”, Who is here “Mal'âk be rı̂yth” (The Messenger of the Covenant). This “Messenger” is also Coming.

In the Gospels (Matthew 11:10, etc), Jesus Christ quotes from the verse, but makes a change to the personal pronoun. Instead of “Me (μου)”, we have “You (σου). By doing so, Jesus here makes Himself the Speaker in Malachi 3:1, Who is “Yahweh of Hosts”, and He says that John the Baptist, went before Him, to prepare His Way, and that Her is “The Messenger of the Covenant”. This is one of the strongest Testimonies by Jesus Christ, to His own Absolute Deity, as “Yahweh of Hosts”. Nothing else can account for the change of the pronoun by Jesus! Matthew 3:3, etc, with Isaiah 40:3, confirms the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Coming of Yahweh/Elohim.

Jesus Christ clearly identifies Himself as “The Messenger of Yahweh”, in the Old Testament, Who is Himself also Yahweh. Those who still argue that there is only One Person in the Bible, Who is Yahweh, and that this is the Father, are proven to be wrong from the Bible! There is no escaping the facts as taught in the Bible, that BOTH Jesus Christ, and the Father are Yahweh, but not the same Person. The Person Who Spoke with Moses FACE TO FACE, and Who is the “Man” Who Appeared to Gideon, is Yahweh. Yet we are also told that no human can see God and live. We have seen that this refers ONLY to God the Father.
Great OP notice my screen name :)
 
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ChristisGod

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John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

John 5:37
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,


John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.


Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.


1 Timothy 1:17
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 6:13-16
I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time — God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

1 John 4:12
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, and invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen

1 Timothy 6:15-16
which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen

Jesus said the following about God the Father !

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God,
but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known

John 5:37
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father
except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

John said this :

1 John 4:2
No one has ever seen God;
but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
 
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