One reason why the rapture can not be post-trib

[ewq1938]

satan has been rendered powerless and ineffective and impotent when it comes to deceiving the Nations.

A look at the world will reveal that is completely false. It will happen eventually but currently deception is stronger in the nations than it has been in a long time and it will get progressively worse as the world approaches the great trib.

 

[marks]

satan has been rendered powerless and ineffective and impotent when it comes to deceiving the Nations.

Ephesians 2:1-3 KJV
1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

I don't think so.

And looking around at the world . . .

I guess your view is what they used to say that Satan is bound . . . but he's on a really long chain.

Much love!

 

[jeffweeder]

A look at the world will reveal that is completely false.

A look at the world now shows the Church fulfilling its ministry of reconciliation in bringing into the fold the Gentile sheep that Jesus spoke of in Jn 10 before the second coming. --

16 I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring those also, and they will listen to My voice and pay attention to My call, and they will become one flock with one Shepherd.




Then comes ssatans little season according to 2thess 2.--,

9 The coming of the [Antichrist, the lawless] one is through the activity of Satan, [attended] with great power [all kinds of counterfeit miracles] and [deceptive] signs and false wonders [all of them lies], 10 and by unlimited seduction to evil and with all the deception of wickedness for those who are perishing, because they did not welcome the love of the truth [of the gospel] so as to be saved [they were spiritually blind, and rejected the truth that would have saved them]. 11 Because of this God will send upon them a misleading influence, [an activity of error and deception] so they will believe the lie, 12 in order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe the truth [about their sin, and the need for salvation through Christ], but instead took pleasure in unrighteousness.

So even though the devil roars around like a lion hoping to devour, the Church rules and fulfills its ministry of reconciliation.


Pre=mill nonsense has the glorified saints and the visible glorified Lord Jesus dwelling among the mortal, without satan interfering, and experiencing a totally embarrassing bust, where numbers like the sand of the seashore of uncommitted mortals are destroyed by fire, once satan is released after your future millennial reign.


So clearly the succerssful reign of the saints happens prior to your appallingly unsuccessful future millennial reign where billions remain outside the camp of the repentant saints...glorified saints mind you.

Totally the most ridiculous concept ever.

Get to work today saints. do not put off till tomorrow what you must do today.

 

[ewq1938]

Pre=mill nonsense has the glorified saints and the visible glorified Lord Jesus dwelling among the mortal, without satan interfering, and experiencing a totally embarrassing bust, where numbers like the sand of the seashore of uncommitted mortals are destroyed by fire, once satan is released after your future millennial reign.

Yet that also happens in Amill so this is nothing but complete hypocrisy.

 

[jeffweeder]

Yet that also happens in Amill so this is nothing but complete hypocrisy.

You do not like to explain yourself do you ewq?
Would you mind adding a little salt and pepper to your responses. It brings out the flavor of what you are trying to cook up here...

 

[n2thelight]

Putting arguments about the pre-trib rapture aside, there is one big reason why the rapture can not be post-trib.

The rapture can not be post trib because if all the believers were raptured at the time of the second coming, there would be no one left in mortal bodies to live into the 1,000 year reign and re-populate the earth.

As put by Marks: If all the righteous were raptured - translated to the incorruptible - and all the wicked are sent to punishment when the Lord comes, no one would remain in natural flesh having babies, continuing generations as prophesied in the Bible past the second coming.
Thoughts?

NOBODY will be in flesh bodies after the return of Christ, the difference is in the state of the soul , it will be either mortal or immortal , which depends on where you stand with Christ at that return..

Those in Christ when changed will not have to worry about the 2nd death while those who are not will.

Nobody will be born during the millennium as the age of flesh will be over

 

[teamventure]

NOBODY will be in flesh bodies after the return of Christ, the difference is in the state of the soul , it will be either mortal or immortal , which depends on where you stand with Christ at that return..

Those in Christ when changed will not have to worry about the 2nd death while those who are not will.

Nobody will be born during the millennium as the age of flesh will be over

Then how will their numbers be as the sands of the seahshore at the end of the millenium?

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
Revelation 20:7‭-‬8 NIV

 

[ewq1938]

Then how will their numbers be as the sands of the seahshore at the end of the millenium?

Could be the same amount that entered the Millennium.

 

[ewq1938]

You do not like to explain yourself do you ewq?

I did. The same thing happens after the Amill thousand years. It is hypocrisy to suggest the rebellion only happens in Premill. It's ordained by God and is not a failure of God, Jesus, the saints or the Millennium. It's a ridiculous thing to bring up.

 

[Timtofly]

Could be the same amount that entered the Millennium.

Can't be. There was only a remnant. Every one else was removed from Adam's dead flesh. The point made was wrong. No mortals can exist in the Millennium. All enemies of the state, mortals, that is death, will be removed from life.

The theory would be out of 8 billion, only a few million are left. Then at the end those few million will rebel, and no one left. The point of the Millennial Kingdom is to subdue the earth. That command was given in Genesis 1:26-27. That means to fill and replenish the earth.

Those in heaven or Paradise do not procreate. Those on earth do procreate without sin and death. So claiming mortals exist in the Millennium is an oxymoron. The term mortal literally means death. All those in the Millennium will have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. All will be equal, no one better than any one else. If an abnormal human is born who rebels, they are instantly removed from life and placed in permanent death. Isaiah 65 declares there will be children and offspring.

It will be the last few generations after 20 to 30 generations, who will be deceived by Satan. Not the original remnant of millions. Those last generations will have the most offspring born and alive. That is how math works. We can assume that even that first generation will still be producing offspring hundreds of years later. The error is to claim no one is born during the Millennium. And sin and death do not exist in the Millennium either. The only death is the punishment of disobedience. Those who join Satan's union and strike in solidarity by marching on Jerusalem will be consumed by fire before any evil is carried out. Then Satan will be cast into the LOF.

 

[teamventure]

Could be the same amount that entered the Millennium.

That is impossible. There will only be a small amount of people living to go into the kingdom.

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:22 NIV

I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Revelation 6:8 NIV

A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.
Revelation 9:18 NIV

 

[ewq1938]

That is impossible. There will only be a small amount of people living to go into the kingdom.

Actually the opposite is true. A huge unknown amount of people will be alive when the Millennium begins. The Millennium is specifically for the nations to be ruled over without any possibility of satan deceiving them during that time period.

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:22 NIV

That doesn't support your claim since it was cut short so flesh could survive.

I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Revelation 6:8 NIV

lol...how does showing me that 1/4th die prove that the other 3/4 aren't mostly alive at the start of the Millennium?

A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.
Revelation 9:18 NIV

See above.

 

[teamventure]

Actually the opposite is true. A huge unknown amount of people will be alive when the Millennium begins. The Millennium is specifically for the nations to be ruled over without any possibility of satan deceiving them during that time period.

That doesn't support your claim since it was cut short so flesh could survive.

lol...how does showing me that 1/4th die prove that the other 3/4 aren't mostly alive at the start of the Millennium?

So why would 1/2 of todays population be described as the sands of the seashore. Doesn't make sense.

That Matt 24 passage states my claim that it will be a dwindled population.

Actually 1/4 die and 1/3 of what's left over so atleast half of the population, which leads again to my question, why would a dwindled population be refered to as the sands of the seashore?

 

[jeffweeder]

A huge unknown amount of people will be alive when the Millennium begins. The Millennium is specifically for the nations to be ruled over without any possibility of satan deceiving them during that time period.

Why would God except such a shallow and untested commitment to his nature.? The rest of us before the second coming were found worthy through their persistence through many trials and torments., (referring to 2 thess 1.)
God expects nothing less.
A free ride of outwardly committing to the obvious glory of the manifested Lord in a future millennium is never going to cut the mustard...,like full frontal steadfastness in the midst of great persecution through satans unrestrained activity before his second coming. (referring to 2 thess 2.)

 

[ewq1938]

So why would 1/2 of todays population be described as the sands of the seashore. Doesn't make sense.

That figure of speech simply means a lot of people. There will be a lot of people who enter the Millennial age.

That Matt 24 passage states my claim that it will be a dwindled population.

But still billions of people, not a small amount of people as you originally claimed.

Actually 1/4 die and 1/3 of what's left over so atleast half of the population, which leads again to my question, why would a dwindled population be refered to as the sands of the seashore?

See above.

 

[ewq1938]

Why would God except such a shallow and untested commitment to his nature.?

The question is flawed and not based on biblical reality. Rev 2 and 19-20 promise that the nations will survive and be ruled over after the second coming during the thousand years.

 

[teamventure]

That figure of speech simply means a lot of people. There will be a lot of people who enter the Millennial age.

But still billions of people, not a small amount of people as you originally claimed.

See above.

It makes no sense that a dwindled population would be refered to as the sands of the seashore. You have tried to dance around that fact and avoid it but it remains.

 

[ewq1938]

It makes no sense that a dwindled population would be refered to as the sands of the seashore.

It most certainly does because the amount of the dwindled population is still in the BILLIONS. If you cut that down another 50 percent it's still BILLIONS of people, as the sands of the sea (non-literally of course)

 

[teamventure]

It most certainly does because the amount of the dwindled population is still in the BILLIONS. If you cut that down another 50 percent it's still BILLIONS of people, as the sands of the sea (non-literally of course)

That passage about the sands of the seashore describes people who will be devoured by the fire of God not ruled over, and it is described at the end of the 1,000 years.

"In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them."

 

[Timtofly]

The question is flawed and not based on biblical reality. Rev 2 and 19-20 promise that the nations will survive and be ruled over after the second coming during the thousand years.

What verse claims they survive? The only people going into the Millennium are the sheep and wheat harvested directly by Jesus and the angels. It is not by personal choice and survival skills. God is choosing who lives and who dies.

A personal choice is afforded now and since the Cross to, of one's free will, choose life or death. That choice ends at the 5th and 6th Seal. God removes choice, until the 7th Trumpet. At that point there may be an additional 42 months, and then the only choice will be between receiving the mark or chopping off one's head.

One is missing the whole point of a final harvest.

So considering a field of wheat. The wheat that survives the harvest is not what goes out after the harvest. The wheat that survives is all plowed under, for the next season. So we see that even at the point of harvest, even the tares are removed and burned up, not left in the field. The wheat is gathered and stored in the barn. Then there may be a gathering of gleanings, but what is left in the field does not move on, as it is all plowed under and destroyed. What enters the Millennium is the wheat that was harvested, not what survives in the field after the harvest.

That is why those who think they are still around at the end are wrong. They will be plowed under. But you are wrong thinking anything survives to keep on living. The tares were burned up. The wheat was harvested. The wheat harvested enters the Millennium. There is literally nothing left in the field is the point.