One reason why the rapture can not be post-trib

[David in NJ]

Still no verse as to pre-trib rapture..........................................as suspected

 

[rebuilder 454]

Not correct.

A sound hermeneutic "must" be tied to the anchor that Scripture is the ultimate authority, it cannot be gainsaid or resisted, it requires surrender, and "it interprets itself." For God is both the author and finisher of our faith, and truth is discerned by the Spirit in us moving us to compare spiritual things with spiritual. Interpreting Scripture by the mind of Christ that we as regenerated souls have. The unassailable hermeneutic which the natural man cannot receive (2nd Timothy 3:7) because he is at enmity with the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10) nd authority of Scripture. It is by this Spirit that we not only receive the knowledge of truth in the word, but instruction through the mind of Christ unto wisdom. Knowing God's word, through God's word, truth revealed through His Spirit. As it is written:

1st Corinthians 2:11-16

• "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
• Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
• Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
• But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
• For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Who has known and who hath instructed (Isaiah 40:13-14). The messengers of God whose word cannot be gainsaid nor resisted. At least, not in a righteous way. This principle guides and governs a sound hermeneutic or system of interpretive theology. Each one of us should have this very strong system determined as our ground before our beliefs are systematized. However, in our day and age, methodologies in practice often reveal the reverse is true. Our hermeneutic is often learned from teachers or authors and not gleaned from Scripture.



This is based on flawed premillennial doctrine. The 1,000-year-old millennial kingdom will not happen in the future, but rather through the church after the Cross where wheat (Elect) and tares (professed Christians) grow together in New Testament congregation until Christ's Second Coming. That is when the harvest will take place on the Last Day. There won't be a time for 1,000 literal kingdoms (or even so-called 7-year tribulation) in the future. Sorry.

Nope
Satan is bound during the mil.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Still no verse as to pre-trib rapture..........................................as suspected

Still pretending the pretrib rapture verses don't exist.
Carry on

 

[TribulationSigns]

Nope
Satan is bound during the mil.

Satan was bound during the millennial kingdom of God, the church. You just deny it because you will say how it is possible if there is evil going on in the world if Satan is bound. You misunderstood the purpose of blinding of strong man, Satan. Look up in Matthew 12 and compare it with Revelation 20.

 

[David in NJ]

Still pretending the pretrib rapture verses don't exist.
Carry on

What's the matter you?
Still cannot find a single 'pre-trib' declaration?

Do not fret my friend, none exist in the Holy Scriptures for "no lie is of the Truth".

 

[No Pre-TB]

BUMP!
I'm also waiting for Pre-Tb rapture verses.

 

[David in NJ]

BUMP!
I'm also waiting for Pre-Tb rapture verses.

BUMP x100

 

[GRACE ambassador]

BUMP x100

Bump to googal if you wish = no sharing with those who are on 'ignore', eh? ♫ ↑

 

[David in NJ]

Bump to googal if you wish = no sharing with those who are on 'ignore', eh? ♫ ↑

That's OK -

What you should be concerned about is that God has pre-trib rapture on ignore.

 

[No Pre-TB]

that God has pre-trib rapture on ignore.

HAHA!
That is the funniest thing I've ever heard in a long time.

 

[David in NJ]

Bump to googal if you wish = no sharing with those who are on 'ignore', eh? ♫ ↑

FYI - Isaiah chapters 25 and 26

 

[David in NJ]

Putting arguments about the pre-trib rapture aside, there is one big reason why the rapture can not be post-trib.

The rapture can not be post trib because if all the believers were raptured at the time of the second coming, there would be no one left in mortal bodies to live into the 1,000 year reign and re-populate the earth.

As put by Marks: If all the righteous were raptured - translated to the incorruptible - and all the wicked are sent to punishment when the Lord comes, no one would remain in natural flesh having babies, continuing generations as prophesied in the Bible past the second coming.
Thoughts?

This has been debunked by the Prophets Zechariah, Isaiah and Revelation

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

BUMP!
I'm also waiting for Pre-Tb rapture verses.

You'll be waiting for a long time since they don't exist.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This has been debunked by the Prophets Zechariah, Isaiah and Revelation

And I thought John wrote the book of Revelation. Instead, it was written by someone named "Revelation". Huh. ;)

 

[No Pre-TB]

I know the Pre-TB verses. They were taught to me and others.

1. Rev 3:10 the rapture verse that proves we escape the wrath. Oh wait, except there is no wrath in it, it's a trial and the rapture isnt in it either. Oopsie!!

2. Then we have the Ekklesia being absent after Ch 3. Therefore, the Elders are the church except the Elders cannot be the church because the word Ekklesia isnt in Ch 4 or 5. Oopsie!!

3. And we cant forget, we have the coming in the sky that isnt a coming and yet he comes for us and departs from heaven to see us and a third coming, they call the second coming when his feet touch the ground. But the truth is, there is only 1 second coming(not a third Pre-TB, not 5 comings The Light), Christ the firstfruits and we at his coming. Oopsie!! And we can throw in there Acts 3:21, Job 14:12, 2 Tim 4:1, Isa 25, John 6...well I guess thats enough for now.

4. There must be a Pre-TB rapture verse! I know, let's take the word apostasy which has been understood for over 2k years and change it to mean a physical departure off world even though everyone has been taught it means a defection, a spiritual forsaking etc from God/Christ. And then we can all agree that our gathering together unto Christ will not happen till our gathering together unto Christ happens first....Oopsie!!

5. We must be taken to heaven before the wrath. Tribulation is wrath. Therefore, we are outta here off world before the 1st seal. Do I need to explain this fallacy?

6. Oh wait, remember this one? God doesnt want his bride to be beaten. How could we go through the tribulation? Have you not looked at the past 2k years? Over 1 million Christians dead, murdered, beaten, slain, burned, crucified, eaten by animals, tore apart, had tar poured on them, thrown over cliffs, dragged through the streets. Oopsie!! But its the GREAT T, thats not for us! Its for the Jews! Oh, because they havent suffered enough. They must suffer more so they will believe? If that were true, they would have believed at the Holocaust. Let's not forget Revelation was written for the Church. not the Jews. Let's not forget, 6 of 7 church types have problems. We are not all the Philadelphia church.

7. Billions of Christians will vanish and airplanes will crash and people will wonder what is going on. Really? Where does that come from? Tim LaHaye Left behind garbage! When the 2 witnesses die and resurrect, then rise to the clouds, their enemies beheld them. Oopsie!!

8. At the resurrection, we will meet the Lord in the air in the twinkling of an eye. Wrong! The change to immortality happens in the twinkling of an eye. Let's get it right. Oopsie!!

9. The resurrection and the rapture happen at the same time. Nope, the resurrection precedes the rapture. Oopsie!! They happen at separate times.

 

[teamventure]

Please stick to the topic in the OP.
This thread is about why or why not there can be a post-trib rapture.
If you want to discuss the pre-trib rapture, there are already plenty of threads for that.

 

[teamventure]

This has been debunked by the Prophets Zechariah, Isaiah and Revelation

Pleaee post scriptures and explain. Thanks.

 

[David in NJ]

Pleaee post scriptures and explain. Thanks.

 

[David in NJ]

Zechariah ch14 states that the LORD will not destroy everyone.

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;

Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Isaiah ch2 states the same:
For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
He shall judge between the nations,
And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.


Revelation chapter 20 states the same:
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him,
so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

[ScottA]

Putting arguments about the pre-trib rapture aside, there is one big reason why the rapture can not be post-trib.

The rapture can not be post trib because if all the believers were raptured at the time of the second coming, there would be no one left in mortal bodies to live into the 1,000 year reign and re-populate the earth.

Team,

Most of that thinking comes from "destructive doctrines" introduced in the church by "false teachers" as foretold by Peter, which is from the anti-Christ spirit that was "already at work" during those days. Which was then confirmed by Paul who foretold the believing of a "lie" that would cause "strong delusion." Even Jesus foretold this to be the reality of these days, regarding the same "lie", saying "Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."

What the "lie" contradicts was also given however, and we need not be deceived. But most have believed the "lie" and it is now the most common belief in all of Christendom. It was Paul who also clarified what the actual truth of the rapture [experience] is, saying, "but each one in his own order." Meaning, the "lie" was a put off of the rapture by those who did not believe what Jesus actually said about coming "soon" and that it would occur individually when He "knocked" on each door--which He said had begun already at the time of Revelation saying "Behold, I stand [present tense] at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me", to instead be a mass event in the distant future.

Which then is complete when the body of flesh dies, just as it was for Jesus, of whom we likewise follow ("but each one in his own order.")

Alternatively, we die...and only then find out the lie and the actual truth.