One taken to heaven and the other left to face the Tribulation...

[Timtofly]

Can't be as the 7th trump ,is the 2nd coming.ie, the last trump
satan comes at 666 Christ comes at 777

Sorry, but Christ is coming for the harvest first. Your numerology denies the final harvest.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No, that is not what I said. The church is not glorified until the Second Coming.

A soul harvested by an angel is not "being martyred". It is going from being alive, one second, and being resurrected before judgment thrones in Revelation 20:4, the next second.

The eternal life of a sheep. The goats go to eternal damnation in Death, and later into the lake of fire.

I don't have a clue what you're trying to say. Maybe you can organize your statements a little better for me? I'm very confused about what you believe on this matter.

 

[Truther]

I believe the historical records, yes. Again, universal expressions are not necessarily without exception. Are you denying the history of a 2nd Jewish rebellion against the Romans in 132-135 AD?

I believe Jesus, yes. I just don't believe *your version* of what he meant.

You kinda believe Jesus then.

How were they dispersed from Jerusalem and the city trodden down of the Gentiles per Jesus' words until the times of the gentiles would be fulfilled, and the Jews still be in power?

The only reality is a pack of them tried to stand up to their Roman captors and they got smashed.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You kinda believe Jesus then.

How were they dispersed from Jerusalem and the city trodden down of the Gentiles per Jesus' words until the times of the gentiles would be fulfilled, and the Jews still be in power?

The only reality is a pack of them tried to stand up to their Roman captors and they got smashed.

What kind of baloney is this? I don't *kind of* believe Jesus! I believe *all* of what Jesus said. I think you are trying to manipulate me into accepting *your version* of what Jesus meant.

Again, don't you believe there was a 2nd Jewish Rebellion in 132-135 AD? Funny how you can attack me on an issue, but won't even answer the essential question: did Jesus indeed *lie* when he said the Jews would be defeated in 70 AD? Did he *lie* by leaving some Jews alive after the Romans marched into Jerusalem and massacred them?

 

[n2thelight]

"Those who did take the "mark of the beast", their souls will not, I repeat, will not have an eternal spiritual body until they are tested after the millennium."


Wrong

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The wrath is the tribulation of God

Question , what's the purpose of the millennium ?

 

[n2thelight]

Sorry, but Christ is coming for the harvest first. Your numerology denies the final harvest.

So you saying Christ will return twice more ?

There's only two dispensations of Christ in all of scripture!!!

Oh!, the harvest is at the end of the world ,ie the 7th trump .

Matthew 13:39 "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."
So you're saying there are two ends, yet scripture doesn't

 

[n2thelight]

The end is AKA, the reign of Christ.

The end begins at to onset of the Millennial and ends at Rev 20:14.


Also, satan takes nobody anywhere.

Okay, so how does a rapture happen before that time?(before the end)?

Yes satan doesn't take anyone anywhere ,simply meant taken from the truth, the fallen away ,virgin to a whore

 

[n2thelight]

Taking a stand is getting your head chopped off.

Sooo what's wrong with getting your head chopped off?

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

How many people have died horrible deaths because of the Word ? I'm thinking most of His Apostles ,and those in the early Church, not to mention those now, today, as I'm typing this in communist country's

Are you worried about getting your head chopped off ?

 

[Truther]

What kind of baloney is this? I don't *kind of* believe Jesus! I believe *all* of what Jesus said. I think you are trying to manipulate me into accepting *your version* of what Jesus meant.

Again, don't you believe there was a 2nd Jewish Rebellion in 132-135 AD? Funny how you can attack me on an issue, but won't even answer the essential question: did Jesus indeed *lie* when he said the Jews would be defeated in 70 AD? Did he *lie* by leaving some Jews alive after the Romans marched into Jerusalem and massacred them?

Face it..you believe ancient fake history over Jesus' words.

Jesus said they ..... "shall be led away captive into all nations".

You have them back in power a generation later.

Jesus said....." and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

You think the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled before 130Ad.

Either Jesus was wrong or a small pack of Jews unsuccessfully tried to revolt.

 

[Truther]

The wrath is the tribulation of God

Question , what's the purpose of the millennium ?

In a nutshell?...To give God the last word to satan.

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel...

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

[Truther]

Okay, so how does a rapture happen before that time?(before the end)?

Yes satan doesn't take anyone anywhere ,simply meant taken from the truth, the fallen away ,virgin to a whore

Those that are part of the first resurrection are needed to reign with Christ on earth as the judicial system for the Millennial.

There will be no more politics, dictators or elected officials.

The saints shall judge the earth instead.

What will be amazing is this...

“And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:”

So, your watch will not be needed anymore.

Also....

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.


The entire 1000 years is called a "day".

 

[Randy Kluth]

Face it..you believe ancient fake history over Jesus' words.

I don't know anybody but you who doesn't believe there was a 2nd Jewish rebellion in 162-165 AD. If you can't face simple and well-accepted facts, it's not worth it to me to discuss this with you. It's like trying to explain that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah with someone who doesn't believe he even existed. Is the life of Jesus "fake history" too? If we don't know the historians are to be trusted, how are we to even know Jesus existed?

 

[Truther]

I don't know anybody but you who doesn't believe there was a 2nd Jewish rebellion in 162-165 AD. If you can't face simple and well-accepted facts, it's not worth it to me to discuss this with you. It's like trying to explain that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah with someone who doesn't believe he even existed. Is the life of Jesus "fake history" too? If we don't know the historians are to be trusted, how are we to even know Jesus existed?

The Bible. And the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

The Bible is factual history.

Don't quote some feller in history that cannot corroborate what he is saying.

For all we know, the RCC had it "preserved" as if it is all true.

Funny how our Bibles are copies and copies of copies, but the copies and copies of copies in "history" are spoke of as being as accurate as our Bibles are.

Think about it.

Also think about how "scholars" abandon Acts and rather quote the "church fathers" that came after the apostles died for their core beliefs.

Sola Scriptura.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The Bible. And the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

The Bible is factual history.

Don't quote some feller in history that cannot corroborate what he is saying.

For all we know, the RCC had it "preserved" as if it is all true.

Funny how our Bibles are copies and copies of copies, but the copies and copies of copies in "history" are spoke of as being as accurate as our Bibles are.

Think about it.

Also think about how "scholars" abandon Acts and rather quote the "church fathers" that came after the apostles died for their core beliefs.

Sola Scriptura.

While it's true that many pagan scholars have an agenda to disprove the Scriptures, along with their miracles and dogma, it is equally true that most intelligent people rely on historians to construct in their minds a picture of history. Even viewing the Scriptures as history requires us to rely on historians and on records to know that they are true. We cannot know if the oldest copies really come from a certain source without relying on "pagan" scientists who have developed dating methods.

While I don't put 100% reliance on pagan experts, I do know that they are capable of both good and evil. And we simply have to rely on some of them, hopefully corroborating what they have to say with any available believers in their time. But to deny reliable information like the 2nd Jewish rebellion in 162-165 AD shows me that you rely only on the Scriptures. If so, you are relying on a whole lot of people between the time they were written and the time that you read them.

If you want to pick and choose like that, then that's up to you. You quite frankly shouldn't even be here arguing anything. But I always like to leave a place open for those engaged in bibliolatry. I agree that the Holy Spirit is important too. But the Holy Spirit certainly never confined Himself to speaking in King James English, nor did He refuse to say anything without quoting Scriptures.

 

[Timtofly]

Sooo what's wrong with getting your head chopped off?

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

How many people have died horrible deaths because of the Word ? I'm thinking most of His Apostles ,and those in the early Church, not to mention those now, today, as I'm typing this in communist country's

Are you worried about getting your head chopped off ?

Nothing. The only way to leave Satan's 42 months.

Christ is returning to gather the harvest Himself. At the 7th Trumpet if the field is not fully reaped, then Satan gets his 42 months in the field. Christ is not on earth for those 42 months but returns at Armageddon and kills any left alive. If you are killed at Armageddon, it is Death for you. Then the lake of fire.

The only way to escape the lake of fire, is to get your head chopped off.

 

[n2thelight]

Nothing. The only way to leave Satan's 42 months.

Christ is returning to gather the harvest Himself. At the 7th Trumpet if the field is not fully reaped, then Satan gets his 42 months in the field. Christ is not on earth for those 42 months but returns at Armageddon and kills any left alive. If you are killed at Armageddon, it is Death for you. Then the lake of fire.

The only way to escape the lake of fire, is to get your head chopped off.

Scripture proves you wrong ,please read Matt 24 and Mark 13 , where Christ gives us all , everything that must and will happen b4 His return, the rapture ain't one of them.

Those in Christ at His return won't get there heads chopped off, so I'm really not understanding what you talking about.

satan comes at the 6th trump by the way

 

[Truther]

While it's true that many pagan scholars have an agenda to disprove the Scriptures, along with their miracles and dogma, it is equally true that most intelligent people rely on historians to construct in their minds a picture of history. Even viewing the Scriptures as history requires us to rely on historians and on records to know that they are true. We cannot know if the oldest copies really come from a certain source without relying on "pagan" scientists who have developed dating methods.

While I don't put 100% reliance on pagan experts, I do know that they are capable of both good and evil. And we simply have to rely on some of them, hopefully corroborating what they have to say with any available believers in their time. But to deny reliable information like the 2nd Jewish rebellion in 162-165 AD shows me that you rely only on the Scriptures. If so, you are relying on a whole lot of people between the time they were written and the time that you read them.

If you want to pick and choose like that, then that's up to you. You quite frankly shouldn't even be here arguing anything. But I always like to leave a place open for those engaged in bibliolatry. I agree that the Holy Spirit is important too. But the Holy Spirit certainly never confined Himself to speaking in King James English, nor did He refuse to say anything without quoting Scriptures.

Are the "most intelligent people" and "historians" biased?

Is only modern news corrupt?

Are ancient writings verified by a consensus of opinion(was anyone there to corroberate)?

Sole Scriptura....don't quote extra Biblical references for doctrine.

 

[Timtofly]

Scripture proves you wrong ,please read Matt 24 and Mark 13 , where Christ gives us all , everything that must and will happen b4 His return, the rapture ain't one of them.

Those in Christ at His return won't get there heads chopped off, so I'm really not understanding what you talking about.

satan comes at the 6th trump by the way

The Second Coming is before any Trumpet. The Trumpets are Christ and God on the earth gathering the final harvest. Only after the harvest does Satan get any authority over the harvest left. Satan does not come first. God comes first. The church is caught up in the Second Coming not after all of the other harvested souls. The church was the last to labor in the vineyard, and taken out first. The house of Jacob labored in the vineyard and will be taken out as the sheep, second. The Nations themselves since Noah have labored in the vineyard, and they are taken out in the Thunders. It is a process, not a 60 second shopping spree at your local gas station for one's weekly groceries.

Then if any fruit is left in the vineyard, Satan gets that fruit. For 42 months, since Revelation tells us several times the only length in Revelation that Satan can have. Revelation 12 and 13. If Satan has not killed all of humanity, Christ will kill them at Armageddon. Then the harvest will be complete, and all of Adam's flesh and blood will be dead.

 

[Keraz]

If Satan has not killed all of humanity, Christ will kill them at Armageddon. Then the harvest will be complete, and all of Adam's flesh and blood will be dead.

This idea is plainly wrong. Even Paul said: We will not all die, although 1 Cor 15:51 is in the context of the GWT Judgment.

All the ungodly and Jesus rejecters will be gone when Jesus Returns, but the faithful people will still be alive, kept in a place of safety or will have survived the rule of the 'beast'. Revelation 13:5-8

satan comes at the 6th trump by the way

Satan is here now, he was here when Jesus was tempted by him and he has had a great time with the likes of Hitler and the founders of all the cults we have today.

But Satan will re-animate the dead body of the world leader and will conquer the holy people. He will have power and great authority for 42 months. Then Jesus will Return and chain him up. Revelation 13:1-8
The Great Tribulation of the Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls, happen during those 42 months, culminating with the 6th and 7th Bowls; Armageddon.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Truther said:
Did you know that the rapture verse Paul was speaking of in 1 Thes 4 was actually a quote of Jesus' words in Matt 24 (one taken the other left)?

No it wasn't. First of all Paul was speaking about the resurrection in 1Thessalonians 4:14-17. Those who don't keep 1Thessalonians 4:14-17 in the context of the resurrection are desperate to prove their rapture belief and they will take 1Thessalonians 4:14-17 out of context of the resurrection to prove it.

At Matthew 24:40,41 Jesus isn't talking about the resurrection at all, he's talking about those who were once enlightened with the truth who didn't watch closely as Jesus said they should watch and they were abandoned to be destroyed with the wicked during Armageddon but those who did watch closely as Jesus said they should watch are taken not only through the great tribulation without dying but also Armageddon, not by a rapture but God is protecting his people through the great tribulation and Armageddon just like he protected Noah and his family when God destroyed that wicked world during Noah's time.