Only 2 Comings by Lord Jesus, Not 3

[amigo de christo]

The first coming of JESUS has long ago already occured .
His second coming will be swift and fast as He comes for the Church
and to destroy all who rejected the truth and believed a lie . To destroy the beast and His kingdom ..

 

[amigo de christo]

MOUNT UP and ALL ARMOUR ON . We are about to face the largest tribulation persecution against the lambs
that the world has ever known . Prepare for persecution . Prepare to be massively hated .
And have no fear of men peroid .

 

[Timtofly]

The first coming of JESUS has long ago already occured .
His second coming will be swift and fast as He comes for the Church
and to destroy all who rejected the truth and believed a lie . To destroy the beast and His kingdom ..

How can the Covenant be confirmed for one week, or is that swift and fast?

 

[101G]

John did not taste death, until he saw all that was prophesied. That is how we have the book of Revelation. The kingdom is not now. That does not mean a coming kingdom will not happen.

I just saw this reply, don't know if you was replying in general or to my post, but correct, John Peter, and many other did not tast death until the KOG came.

but I have one question for you, you said, "The kingdom is not now. That does not mean a coming kingdom will not happen"
Matthew 6:10 "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."

What does death taste like? No one in Christ after the Cross has tasted death. But if your definition of taste is based on western science...

Should Jesus had just literally said no one will die? But then again, what is death to one in Christ? Is this corruptible dead body, any more or any less dead, after the soul leaves? David had to walk through a valley of death that lasted almost 1000 years. Those in Jesus' hearing, who followed Jesus Christ in death, that valley is so short, none of the senses would register the movement of the soul into the permanent incorruptible body in Paradise.

I would question that the bones left behind is even you any more, as the dead you was never you either, especially if one cannot taste death?

First thanks for the reply, second, ...... sure anyone can reply, and yes, some there, STANDING, (Alive), did see the KOG in their time as well with us today, for the KOG is within us, (the Holy Spirit). so the KOG came on Pentecost. now my question is, as Earburner stated, or pointed out, that "the KOG is in Jesus", which is correct, and the KOG is in the Holy Spirit, supportive scripture, Romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost." ok, good so far. now if the Lord Jesus is the son, and a suppose separate and distinct person from the Holy Ghost, then one have two separate and distinct KOG, other wordd thant means it's two KOG, or else as I asked, the only other soulition is that the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost is the same one person, or you have two KOG. are you understanding the dilemma that is presented here? remember it was HIS, the Lord Jesus Spirit that was poured out on Pentecost.

so which dilemma you prefer?

Now let clear up something on the Lord Jesus return. there are only TWO "APPERANCES" that he made on EARTH. one in a flesh and blood body, and the other is yet to come, supportive scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

now, the Holy Ghost did not "appear", but .... "Manifested". and the Lord Jesus himself said that he would "manifest" himself, himself, himself, to those standing, having not taste death. listen to Jesus, the Lord. John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."BINGO, question did not the Holy Spirit "manifested" on the day of Pentecost? yes. for it was the manifestation of the spiritual gifts. BINGO.

so either the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit, or one have two KOG. and that's anti bible.

so again, that eliminates any three persons in the Godhead.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Davy]

How can the Covenant be confirmed for one week, or is that swift and fast?

The idea in Daniel 9:27 about the confirming of the covenant must be understood in conjunction with the Daniel 11 Scripture about the "vile person".

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

Dan 11:23
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
KJV

Dan 11:28
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
KJV

Mention of the "holy covenant" existing there after that "league" made shows what the confirming of the covenant means in Dan.9:27. It means a re-establishing of the old covenant and sacrifices in Jerusalem again after its destruction by the Romans, and with the final Antichrist being that "vile person" at the end of this world.


Dan 11:30
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
KJV

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV

That "vile person" (final Antichrist) shall end the daily sacrifices in Jerusalem for the end, and instead place an abomination idol in the rebuilt temple (the event of the "image of the beast" at the end of Revelation 13). This is what Apostle Paul pointed to in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 for the end of this world.


Dan 11:32-36
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
KJV

 

[Phoneman777]

God's Word teaches that Lord Jesus comes 2 times to this earth. It was first written of in the Old Testament prophets...

Christ's 1st coming to die on the cross:
Zech 9:9
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

That was declared at Jesus' 1st coming per Matthew 21:1-9.


Christ's 2nd coming with Power to Rule over all:
Zech 9:10
10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV

The events to pay attention to in this 10th verse are, the cutting off of the chariot and horse from Jerusalem which represents battle. And the battle bow being cut off, meaning the end of all that strife in the world. And His dominion rule from sea to sea, etc., which is put for Christ's future reign over all nations with "a rod of iron" (Revelation 12:5; Psalms 2).

That is also what The New Testament prophecies show about our Lord Jesus' 2 times of coming. His 1st coming was to be meek as the Lamb slain to offer us forgiveness of sins. And His 2nd coming, which is still future, will be to take over all the kingdoms of this world on the 7th Trumpet (Revelation 11:15).


If you'll notice, there is no 3rd coming written of. Only 2:

Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
KJV

Pre-tribulationalism wrongly teaches there are 3 comings by Christ. The 1st was His coming to die on the cross. The 2nd time, which they try to be sneaky and say it really isn't a 2nd time, is alleged to be prior to the "great tribulation" to gather the Church, originally what John Darby in 1830's Great Britain said was a "secret" coming. And then they teach the 2nd coming is after the tribulation returning with Jesus to do battle, which that actually is a 3rd one in their false teaching.

1st coming - Christ died on the cross for the remission of sins for those who believe.
2nd coming - to gather His Church and do battle, beginning His reign over all.

That's all that is written of in God's Word, just 2 times, just like the above Hebrews 9:28 says "the second time". The Pre-trib Rapture school can't even get that verse right, as they slice that verse up and only say, "unto them that look for Him", and leave off that "second time". Why would they do that?

They do it because they are preaching a false doctrine from men that is leaven 'added' to God's Word. Their pre-trib rapture idea simply is not written. So chop and slice Scripture is the order of their day.

Direct Scripture is available directly from our Lord Jesus as to the timing of His return to gather His Church. It is written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 where He shows His return and gathering of the saints is AFTER... the tribulation. One cannot get any more straightforward than that.

God allows men's leaven false doctrines to deceive IF... the believer allows theirself to be deceived. It's no big mystery, as God allowed false ones to creep in among Israel to try His people with. He does this to test YOU, to see if you will listen to Him in His Word, or to men's doctrines.

You are correct, there are only two Advents: the first 2,000 years ago, and the 2nd when He comes to collect the dead and living saints to meet Him in the air. But, technically, there is a "third" coming - after the 1,000 years when He returns with the saints in New Jerusalem to raise the wicked for judgment, after which He will make the Earth new and will be the new "capital of the Universe".

 

[Davy]

You are correct, there are only two Advents: the first 2,000 years ago, and the 2nd when He comes to collect the dead and living saints to meet Him in the air. But, technically, there is a "third" coming - after the 1,000 years when He returns with the saints in New Jerusalem to raise the wicked for judgment, after which He will make the Earth new and will be the new "capital of the Universe".

No, technically there is no 3rd coming. Revelation 20 doesn't say what you're suggesting. The "camp of the saints" in Rev.20 is shown established on the earth... 'during'... the "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect. It is only at the end of that thousand years when Satan is loosed from his pit prison one final time to go deceive the unsaved nations to go up against that "camp of the saints" on earth. That is when he will be destroyed. Then the Great White Throne Judgment will happen, to see if any of the dead's names are found in the book of life. Then hell and death and the unsaved go into the "lake of fire", and God then... brings His new heavens and a new earth. So Lord Jesus is coming here on earth when He gathers His saints on the last day of this world. To Jerusalem is where He is returning with them, as written in Zechariah 14.

 

[101G]

addressing the Last two replies. I agree not a third advent in Flesh and bone, but consider this. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

here the term "YOU" is audience relevance to his disciples who heard his words as he spoke them. now I ask anyone to reconcile when the Lord Jesus came to his disciples?. (and this is when they are still alive).

these types of questions are needed to be asked, and the bible do answer them.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Davy]

addressing the Last two replies. I agree not a third advent in Flesh and bone, but consider this. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

here the term "YOU" is audience relevance to his disciples who heard his words as he spoke them. now I ask anyone to reconcile when the Lord Jesus came to his disciples?. (and this is when they are still alive).

these types of questions are needed to be asked, and the bible do answer them.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

God's Word does not support man's theory of Full Preterism, which wrongly believes Jesus' 2nd coming happened in His Apostle's days. That is what you are suggesting when you try to replace Christ's future 'literal' physical 2nd coming with His sending believers The Holy Spirit Comforter instead. God's Word even tells 'how' Jesus is going to return to this earth per Acts 1 and Zechariah 14, and this...

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
KJV

For the wild idea you're suggesting to be true, it would have to mean that the unbelieving Jews should have seen and believed on Jesus when The Comforter was sent.

 

[101G]

God's Word does not support man's theory of Full Preterism, which wrongly believes Jesus' 2nd coming happened in His Apostle's days. That is what you are suggesting when you try to replace Christ's future 'literal' physical 2nd coming with His sending believers The Holy Spirit Comforter instead. God's Word even tells 'how' Jesus is going to return to this earth per Acts 1 and Zechariah 14, and this...

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
KJV

For the wild idea you're suggesting to be true, it would have to mean that the unbelieving Jews should have seen and believed on Jesus when The Comforter was sent.

did I say that, please don't try to put words in my mouth, that I did not say.... please refraim from that...... thank you.

apparently you didn't fully read what I said.

I said that the Lord Jesus did return on the day of Pentecost and he dwells in us..... or a least some of us..... (smile). understand that OUR Lord Jesus have a two fold return. what do I mean by "TWO-FOLD" return...... A. the first return is in Spirit, "MANIFESTATION", (where every eye did not see him). and his second return, or coming is in "APPERANCE" (where every eye will see him), supportive scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."
and that return where every eye will see him is the Revelation 1:7 verse that you stated correctly.

so Davy, do you know the difference between a "MANIFESTATION", and a "APPERANCE?" do you? I guess not.

understand the Lord Jesus returned in "Spirit", by manifesting in the Spiritual Gifts. listen, we're still in John 14. scripture, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."(DID YOU SEE THAT DAVY? "MANIFEST" HIMSELF, NOT APPEAR)...... BINGO.
John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?" (BY MANIFESTING, .... THE WORLD, OR EVERY EYE WILL NOT/DID NOT SEE THE MANIFESTATION), but when he "appear" according to Revelation 1:7, the second time as Hebrew 9:28 states, then "EVERY" eye will see him). BINGO.
John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

we, we, we, we, we, how MANY is WE?. that will manifest to you/us? answer, ONE, and here isthe verse that prove it.... listen, 1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us." WELL WHO GAVE US HIS, HIS, HIS, SPIRIT? LETS SEE, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" who gave us HIS Spirit? the Father? well lets see, who sent/gave the Spiit that dwells in us...... John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
John 14:26 states the Father will send his Spirit, now this, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

WHO is "sending" I, I, I, ...... is anyone up to calling our Lord a Lie?, (God forebid), because, Acts 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."
he, he, he, hath shed forth? he sent, or gave his, his, Spirit? yes, it is his Spirit Given unto him by the Spirit/Father, why, and How? answer, John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
SAY WHAT? "GLORFY ME WITH, THINE "OWN-SELF?" what is God own-self? answer Spirit.... per John 4:24a BINGO. so it was the ONE SPIRIT who is the SAME ONE SPIRIT WHO IS THE "WE", THE FATHER AND THE SON... the same one Spirit, supportive scripture, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.". Davy, how many Spirit is the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ?, it's the same one Spirit, only G243 allos, or "Diversified".

THERE IS THE WE IN JOHN 14:23, (THE ONE TRUE SPIRIT), THE GLORIFIED SON IN THE FATHER, "THE SPIRIT OF GOD" AND "THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST". THAT'S THE ONE SPIRIT THAT 1 JOHN 3:24 STATES THAT ABIDE, OR DWELLS IN US. John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." BINGO,

see Davy, "abode" here means "dwell". for the Holy Spirit, Jesus Dwells in us, scripture, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." and he, he, he, Did, on the day of Pentecost. for he is the FULNESS of the ONE TRUE GOD in body form.... BINGO.

Davey, this is how I know that he, Jesus, as the Holy Spirit returned on the day of Pentecost in "MANIFESTATION", and NOT in "APPERANCE".

see how easy it is to dispell false theories and false beliefs... just read your bible with the Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus, who only Face we will see.

get the Holy Spirit for your teacher and drop all these xero. yes, Zero with an "x", yes x, cross them out, those false teachers. get it cross? .... (smile).

I hope you understand now, that the Lord Jesus has a two fold return, 1. in manifestation of the Spirit, and the next one, which is yet to happen, in "Apperance", for rvery eye to see.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Davy]

did I say that, please don't try to put words in my mouth, that I did not say.... please refraim from that...... thank you.

apparently you didn't fully read what I said.

I said that the Lord Jesus did return on the day of Pentecost and he dwells in us..... or a least some of us..... (smile). understand that OUR Lord Jesus have a two fold return. what do I mean by "TWO-FOLD" return...... A. the first return is in Spirit, "MANIFESTATION", (where every eye did not see him). and his second return, or coming is in "APPERANCE" (where every eye will see him), supportive scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."
and that return where every eye will see him is the Revelation 1:7 verse that you stated correctly.

so Davy, do you know the difference between a "MANIFESTATION", and a "APPERANCE?" do you? I guess not.
....

Still not correct. Though The Godhead is 3 Persons as One, that still does not mean Jesus returned as The Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Only The Holy Spirit was given on Pentecost. So that was still not a 'spiritual' return of Jesus. Nor did I put words in your mouth, this false idea of Jesus returning as The Holy Spirit is yours, not mine.

 

[101G]

Still not correct. Though The Godhead is 3 Persons as One, that still does not mean Jesus returned as The Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Only The Holy Spirit was given on Pentecost. So that was still not a 'spiritual' return of Jesus. Nor did I put words in your mouth, this false idea of Jesus returning as The Holy Spirit is yours, not mine.

ok one question who sent ... "HIS" Spirit... NAME or Title please? ...... YIKES!.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Phoneman777]

No, technically there is no 3rd coming. Revelation 20 doesn't say what you're suggesting. The "camp of the saints" in Rev.20 is shown established on the earth... 'during'... the "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect. It is only at the end of that thousand years when Satan is loosed from his pit prison one final time to go deceive the unsaved nations to go up against that "camp of the saints" on earth. That is when he will be destroyed. Then the Great White Throne Judgment will happen, to see if any of the dead's names are found in the book of life. Then hell and death and the unsaved go into the "lake of fire", and God then... brings His new heavens and a new earth. So Lord Jesus is coming here on earth when He gathers His saints on the last day of this world. To Jerusalem is where He is returning with them, as written in Zechariah 14.

Sorry, for the delay but 2020 has been crazy and 2021 is turning out to be a close second LOL.

Your idea is very similiar to Jesuit Futurism in that Jesuit Futurism does not account for some extremely important prophecies by John, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jesus, Peter, etc:

Did you not read in the Scriptures where the Earth is predicted to undergo a near-future period where it's described as an upside down, wasted, earthquake/aftershock ravaged, destroyed, dissolved, empty, desolate, pitch black, devoid of all human/animal life, where "all the cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord and by His fierce anger"?

2 Peter 3:10 KJV says the day Jesus comes "as a thief in the night", is when the atmosphere and the elements of the Earth burn and the wicked will drop dead where they stand as they are destroyed "by the brightness of His coming" -- which means He comes "as a thief in the night" at the Second Coming, not 7 years prior to it, and when He comes there won't be seven more minutes of anything, much less "seven more years of tribulation".

So, this destroyed Earth will lie desolate and inhabitable for 1,000 years while Jesus takes His bride back to His Father's house, just as He said He would do in John 14, right or wrong?

 

[Phoneman777]

did I say that, please don't try to put words in my mouth, that I did not say.... please refraim from that...... thank you.

apparently you didn't fully read what I said.

I said that the Lord Jesus did return on the day of Pentecost and he dwells in us..... or a least some of us..... (smile). understand that OUR Lord Jesus have a two fold return. what do I mean by "TWO-FOLD" return...... A. the first return is in Spirit, "MANIFESTATION", (where every eye did not see him). and his second return, or coming is in "APPERANCE" (where every eye will see him), supportive scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."
and that return where every eye will see him is the Revelation 1:7 verse that you stated correctly.

so Davy, do you know the difference between a "MANIFESTATION", and a "APPERANCE?" do you? I guess not.

understand the Lord Jesus returned in "Spirit", by manifesting in the Spiritual Gifts. listen, we're still in John 14. scripture, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."(DID YOU SEE THAT DAVY? "MANIFEST" HIMSELF, NOT APPEAR)...... BINGO.
John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?" (BY MANIFESTING, .... THE WORLD, OR EVERY EYE WILL NOT/DID NOT SEE THE MANIFESTATION), but when he "appear" according to Revelation 1:7, the second time as Hebrew 9:28 states, then "EVERY" eye will see him). BINGO.
John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

we, we, we, we, we, how MANY is WE?. that will manifest to you/us? answer, ONE, and here isthe verse that prove it.... listen, 1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us." WELL WHO GAVE US HIS, HIS, HIS, SPIRIT? LETS SEE, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" who gave us HIS Spirit? the Father? well lets see, who sent/gave the Spiit that dwells in us...... John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
John 14:26 states the Father will send his Spirit, now this, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

WHO is "sending" I, I, I, ...... is anyone up to calling our Lord a Lie?, (God forebid), because, Acts 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."
he, he, he, hath shed forth? he sent, or gave his, his, Spirit? yes, it is his Spirit Given unto him by the Spirit/Father, why, and How? answer, John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
SAY WHAT? "GLORFY ME WITH, THINE "OWN-SELF?" what is God own-self? answer Spirit.... per John 4:24a BINGO. so it was the ONE SPIRIT who is the SAME ONE SPIRIT WHO IS THE "WE", THE FATHER AND THE SON... the same one Spirit, supportive scripture, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.". Davy, how many Spirit is the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ?, it's the same one Spirit, only G243 allos, or "Diversified".

THERE IS THE WE IN JOHN 14:23, (THE ONE TRUE SPIRIT), THE GLORIFIED SON IN THE FATHER, "THE SPIRIT OF GOD" AND "THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST". THAT'S THE ONE SPIRIT THAT 1 JOHN 3:24 STATES THAT ABIDE, OR DWELLS IN US. John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." BINGO,

see Davy, "abode" here means "dwell". for the Holy Spirit, Jesus Dwells in us, scripture, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." and he, he, he, Did, on the day of Pentecost. for he is the FULNESS of the ONE TRUE GOD in body form.... BINGO.

Davey, this is how I know that he, Jesus, as the Holy Spirit returned on the day of Pentecost in "MANIFESTATION", and NOT in "APPERANCE".

see how easy it is to dispell false theories and false beliefs... just read your bible with the Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus, who only Face we will see.

get the Holy Spirit for your teacher and drop all these xero. yes, Zero with an "x", yes x, cross them out, those false teachers. get it cross? .... (smile).

I hope you understand now, that the Lord Jesus has a two fold return, 1. in manifestation of the Spirit, and the next one, which is yet to happen, in "Apperance", for rvery eye to see.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Preterism claims all prophecies have been fulfilled...it there any evidence to show that at some point in the past Jesus shook the Earth and set everything on fire and destroyed the wicked at the brightness of His coming and resurrected millions of faithful dead saints and levitated them and the saints which "remain" skyward to meet Him in the air at His appearance?

 

[101G]

Preterism claims all prophecies have been fulfilled...it there any evidence to show that at some point in the past Jesus shook the Earth and set everything on fire and destroyed the wicked at the brightness of His coming and resurrected millions of faithful dead saints and levitated them and the saints which "remain" skyward to meet Him in the air at His appearance?

first thanks for the reply, second, a good question, but to "all prophecies has been fulfilled?" the answer to that is, no, and to the others, not physically, but in symbolism yes. lets take this one step at a time. I had to pull up my notes on this.

you asked,
A. "it there any evidence to show that at some point in the past Jesus shook the Earth" now in an earthquake, it is consider a shaking of the earth physically. but the symbolism of this would be as recorded in, Acts 17:6 "And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;" what had happen was not physical, but Spiritual, the preaching of christ. see, people worlds can be up ended in a change of religion, as here with Christianty, from Judaism, with all its rules and regulations. so as with a NATURAL earthquake, one's life could, in the spirit world, be turned unside down. (so that's spiritual, and not physical).

B. "and set everything on fire". again, the spiritual aspect could be, Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place." Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting." Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." and the FIRE, which is God a refiner, destroyes the wicked, not the person, (meaning their false doctrine and beliefs). and you know that the human tongue, can be a world of fire, for GOOD, or EVIL. James 3:5 "Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!" James 3:6 "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." and the Gospel in the RIGHT MOUTH, or MOUTH(S), can set the world on fire. again, this is spiritual.

now, the answer to it all,
C. "and destroyed the wicked at the brightness of His coming and resurrected millions of faithful dead saints and levitated them and the saints which "remain" skyward to meet Him in the air at His appearance?" NOW, HERE IS THE KEY, AS TO THIS HAS NOT HAPPEN PHYSICALLY, NOR SPIRITUALLY. a. apperance, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." this is the key verse, as I said in the post you quoted, this has NOT YET HAPPEN. supportive scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." two points. a. every eye has not seen him. b. those whom pierced him has not risen. so that takes care of the, "millions of faithful dead saints and levitated them and the saints which "remain" skyward to meet Him in the air at His appearance?". and if this was some kind of seceret rapture, (as some claim), well the millennium is over expired, and also this would go aganist what God said in Hosea 6:2 "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight." well the two days expires approx in 2033, if as the apostle Peter states, a day is "like", not is, but "like", a thousand years, so he, the Lord Jesus, he left, at age 33 in our time, so add 2 days which would be 2,000 years, and 33 from AD, or our time, well that puts his time of return around about, notice I said around about, not definitly, at 2033, and DON'T hold me to any dates, for no man knows, nor do I, but he said we can tell by the signs, and Hosea 6:2 is a sign. now in that third day, no one's knows, because of this, Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." so far this last event in C. here, as far as I know it has not happen yet, and the Hosea 6:2 still stands.

so in conclusion, A. and B. could be spiritually already occured. but C. not yet. and let me be clear, I DON'T KNOW, NOR WILL I SET ANY TIME, OR DATE FOR THE LORD JESUS RETUREN, I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

Hoped that helped.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Timtofly]

Sorry, for the delay but 2020 has been crazy and 2021 is turning out to be a close second LOL.

Your idea is very similiar to Jesuit Futurism in that Jesuit Futurism does not account for some extremely important prophecies by John, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jesus, Peter, etc:

Did you not read in the Scriptures where the Earth is predicted to undergo a near-future period where it's described as an upside down, wasted, earthquake/aftershock ravaged, destroyed, dissolved, empty, desolate, pitch black, devoid of all human/animal life, where "all the cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord and by His fierce anger"?

2 Peter 3:10 KJV says the day Jesus comes "as a thief in the night", is when the atmosphere and the elements of the Earth burn and the wicked will drop dead where they stand as they are destroyed "by the brightness of His coming" -- which means He comes "as a thief in the night" at the Second Coming, not 7 years prior to it, and when He comes there won't be seven more minutes of anything, much less "seven more years of tribulation".

So, this destroyed Earth will lie desolate and inhabitable for 1,000 years while Jesus takes His bride back to His Father's house, just as He said He would do in John 14, right or wrong?

This is post millennium eschatology. Which means the NHNE have to wait 1000 years. It is not based on the Second Coming at all, but the GWT being after 1000 years of desolation. This is not found in Scripture any where, with less support than Christ reigning on earth for 1000 years after the Second Coming. This view is basically amil, but allows a desolation of 1000 years.

The 42 months of Satan in control will be starkly desolate. Even if Satan obtains Utopia, it will not be a Utopia of grace.

 

[Phoneman777]

first thanks for the reply, second, a good question, but to "all prophecies has been fulfilled?" the answer to that is, no, and to the others, not physically, but in symbolism yes. lets take this one step at a time. I had to pull up my notes on this.

you asked,
A. "it there any evidence to show that at some point in the past Jesus shook the Earth" now in an earthquake, it is consider a shaking of the earth physically. but the symbolism of this would be as recorded in, Acts 17:6 "And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;" what had happen was not physical, but Spiritual, the preaching of christ. see, people worlds can be up ended in a change of religion, as here with Christianty, from Judaism, with all its rules and regulations. so as with a NATURAL earthquake, one's life could, in the spirit world, be turned unside down. (so that's spiritual, and not physical).

B. "and set everything on fire". again, the spiritual aspect could be, Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place." Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting." Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." and the FIRE, which is God a refiner, destroyes the wicked, not the person, (meaning their false doctrine and beliefs). and you know that the human tongue, can be a world of fire, for GOOD, or EVIL. James 3:5 "Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!" James 3:6 "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." and the Gospel in the RIGHT MOUTH, or MOUTH(S), can set the world on fire. again, this is spiritual.

now, the answer to it all,
C. "and destroyed the wicked at the brightness of His coming and resurrected millions of faithful dead saints and levitated them and the saints which "remain" skyward to meet Him in the air at His appearance?" NOW, HERE IS THE KEY, AS TO THIS HAS NOT HAPPEN PHYSICALLY, NOR SPIRITUALLY. a. apperance, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." this is the key verse, as I said in the post you quoted, this has NOT YET HAPPEN. supportive scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." two points. a. every eye has not seen him. b. those whom pierced him has not risen. so that takes care of the, "millions of faithful dead saints and levitated them and the saints which "remain" skyward to meet Him in the air at His appearance?". and if this was some kind of seceret rapture, (as some claim), well the millennium is over expired, and also this would go aganist what God said in Hosea 6:2 "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight." well the two days expires approx in 2033, if as the apostle Peter states, a day is "like", not is, but "like", a thousand years, so he, the Lord Jesus, he left, at age 33 in our time, so add 2 days which would be 2,000 years, and 33 from AD, or our time, well that puts his time of return around about, notice I said around about, not definitly, at 2033, and DON'T hold me to any dates, for no man knows, nor do I, but he said we can tell by the signs, and Hosea 6:2 is a sign. now in that third day, no one's knows, because of this, Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." so far this last event in C. here, as far as I know it has not happen yet, and the Hosea 6:2 still stands.

so in conclusion, A. and B. could be spiritually already occured. but C. not yet. and let me be clear, I DON'T KNOW, NOR WILL I SET ANY TIME, OR DATE FOR THE LORD JESUS RETUREN, I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

Hoped that helped.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Phoneman777]

This is post millennium eschatology. Which means the NHNE have to wait 1000 years. It is not based on the Second Coming at all, but the GWT being after 1000 years of desolation. This is not found in Scripture any where, with less support than Christ reigning on earth for 1000 years after the Second Coming. This view is basically amil, but allows a desolation of 1000 years.

The 42 months of Satan in control will be starkly desolate. Even if Satan obtains Utopia, it will not be a Utopia of grace.

I can't subscribe to any interpretation of Scripture, ESPECIALLY JESUIT INTERPRETATIONS, which don't account for the period of destruction and uninhabited Earth.

The only one that accounts for it is the one I presented, which is fully substantiated by Scripture and does not require that we pretend all those verses about a desolate Earth don't exist.

 

[Taken]

God's Word teaches that Lord Jesus comes 2 times to this earth. It was first written of in the Old Testament prophets...

Christ's 1st coming to die on the cross:
Zech 9:9
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

That was declared at Jesus' 1st coming per Matthew 21:1-9.


Christ's 2nd coming with Power to Rule over all:
Zech 9:10
10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV

The events to pay attention to in this 10th verse are, the cutting off of the chariot and horse from Jerusalem which represents battle. And the battle bow being cut off, meaning the end of all that strife in the world. And His dominion rule from sea to sea, etc., which is put for Christ's future reign over all nations with "a rod of iron" (Revelation 12:5; Psalms 2).

That is also what The New Testament prophecies show about our Lord Jesus' 2 times of coming. His 1st coming was to be meek as the Lamb slain to offer us forgiveness of sins. And His 2nd coming, which is still future, will be to take over all the kingdoms of this world on the 7th Trumpet (Revelation 11:15).


If you'll notice, there is no 3rd coming written of. Only 2:

Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
KJV

Pre-tribulationalism wrongly teaches there are 3 comings by Christ. The 1st was His coming to die on the cross. The 2nd time, which they try to be sneaky and say it really isn't a 2nd time, is alleged to be prior to the "great tribulation" to gather the Church, originally what John Darby in 1830's Great Britain said was a "secret" coming. And then they teach the 2nd coming is after the tribulation returning with Jesus to do battle, which that actually is a 3rd one in their false teaching.

1st coming - Christ died on the cross for the remission of sins for those who believe.
2nd coming - to gather His Church and do battle, beginning His reign over all.

That's all that is written of in God's Word, just 2 times, just like the above Hebrews 9:28 says "the second time". The Pre-trib Rapture school can't even get that verse right, as they slice that verse up and only say, "unto them that look for Him", and leave off that "second time". Why would they do that?

They do it because they are preaching a false doctrine from men that is leaven 'added' to God's Word. Their pre-trib rapture idea simply is not written. So chop and slice Scripture is the order of their day.

Direct Scripture is available directly from our Lord Jesus as to the timing of His return to gather His Church. It is written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 where He shows His return and gathering of the saints is AFTER... the tribulation. One cannot get any more straightforward than that.

God allows men's leaven false doctrines to deceive IF... the believer allows theirself to be deceived. It's no big mystery, as God allowed false ones to creep in among Israel to try His people with. He does this to test YOU, to see if you will listen to Him in His Word, or to men's doctrines.

IF you "notice"...
A son of man called JESUS, is he who came to Earth.
He was "revealed" as the "son of man".
Scripture "notifies us", this "son of man";
1) could be seen by Earthly men.
2) could be heard by Earthly men.
3) and "would be" (at some point), called "the Son of God"...and he was.

It was also revealed, a Few men were "privately" "Supernaturally notified" this "seen and heard son of man", would be Supernaturally revealed, he "IS" The long awaited promised Christ Messiah.

The Christ is Gods Supernatural POWER, and can NOT Himself be SEEN by a man's Natural EYES.

Human men could SEE, the "son of man".
And "KNOW", he is the Power of God, The Christ, but Not SEE Christ.
Human men could, see the "effects" of Gods Power, but can not See God or His Power.

Scripture teaches...The "son of man, called JESUS, came forth out from God in Heaven TO EARTH...Left Earth...returned to Heaven...and the same son of man IS IN Heaven and Shall return TO Earth, on a day of Gods choosing.

That is TWICE, that son of man, comes to Earth.

I have NOT seen one person, claiming THREE Times the son of man comes to Earth...

It seems a silly topic to argue ... when you reveal NOT one person, you are "implying a dispute", where none exists.

 

[Timtofly]

first thanks for the reply, second, a good question, but to "all prophecies has been fulfilled?" the answer to that is, no, and to the others, not physically, but in symbolism yes. lets take this one step at a time. I had to pull up my notes on this.

you asked,
A. "it there any evidence to show that at some point in the past Jesus shook the Earth" now in an earthquake, it is consider a shaking of the earth physically. but the symbolism of this would be as recorded in, Acts 17:6 "And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;" what had happen was not physical, but Spiritual, the preaching of christ. see, people worlds can be up ended in a change of religion, as here with Christianty, from Judaism, with all its rules and regulations. so as with a NATURAL earthquake, one's life could, in the spirit world, be turned unside down. (so that's spiritual, and not physical).

B. "and set everything on fire". again, the spiritual aspect could be, Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place." Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting." Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." and the FIRE, which is God a refiner, destroyes the wicked, not the person, (meaning their false doctrine and beliefs). and you know that the human tongue, can be a world of fire, for GOOD, or EVIL. James 3:5 "Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!" James 3:6 "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." and the Gospel in the RIGHT MOUTH, or MOUTH(S), can set the world on fire. again, this is spiritual.

now, the answer to it all,
C. "and destroyed the wicked at the brightness of His coming and resurrected millions of faithful dead saints and levitated them and the saints which "remain" skyward to meet Him in the air at His appearance?" NOW, HERE IS THE KEY, AS TO THIS HAS NOT HAPPEN PHYSICALLY, NOR SPIRITUALLY. a. apperance, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." this is the key verse, as I said in the post you quoted, this has NOT YET HAPPEN. supportive scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." two points. a. every eye has not seen him. b. those whom pierced him has not risen. so that takes care of the, "millions of faithful dead saints and levitated them and the saints which "remain" skyward to meet Him in the air at His appearance?". and if this was some kind of seceret rapture, (as some claim), well the millennium is over expired, and also this would go aganist what God said in Hosea 6:2 "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight." well the two days expires approx in 2033, if as the apostle Peter states, a day is "like", not is, but "like", a thousand years, so he, the Lord Jesus, he left, at age 33 in our time, so add 2 days which would be 2,000 years, and 33 from AD, or our time, well that puts his time of return around about, notice I said around about, not definitly, at 2033, and DON'T hold me to any dates, for no man knows, nor do I, but he said we can tell by the signs, and Hosea 6:2 is a sign. now in that third day, no one's knows, because of this, Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." so far this last event in C. here, as far as I know it has not happen yet, and the Hosea 6:2 still stands.

so in conclusion, A. and B. could be spiritually already occured. but C. not yet. and let me be clear, I DON'T KNOW, NOR WILL I SET ANY TIME, OR DATE FOR THE LORD JESUS RETUREN, I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

Hoped that helped.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

After 2 days, comes the 3rd day. The 3rd day is the Sabbath where Israel will be the premier Nation ruled by Jesus Christ physically on earth. The remnant will be resurrected. This would be the resurrection of Revelation 20:4. They will be given incorruptible bodies and cannot be part of the Second death. They reign on earth for 1000 years, and still reign on the new earth in a new reality.

Jesus was born in 4BC, by current calendar standards. It would be 2030, since the Cross, not 2033. The shortened days means the Second Coming will happen closer to 2030, than 10.5 years prior to 2030.


The reason why time cannot go past 2030 is not based on the Second Coming at all. It is based on the fact Adam disobeyed God 5991 years ago. God says in Exodus 20: "6 Days shalt though work". Adam's punishment cannot exceed 6 days, 6000 years. The Cross was 4000 years after the day Adam disobeyed and sin entered the world, and Adam left the Garden of Eden. On Sunday, after the Cross all the OT church returned to the Garden, Jesus called on the Cross, Paradise. The thief, the first NT church member to enter Paradise arrived first. His soul entered Paradise when he died a few hours after the Atonement was physically made.

At the Cross in Matthew 27, the bodies of the OT saints were walking around on earth. Here is the difference between a dead body and the soul entering Paradise and a Resurrection body that is incorruptible. One cannot claim, Jesus Christ was physically resurrected, and then deny those who heard His voice are not physically resurrected in incorruptible bodies. When Jesus Christ yelled out it is finished, the OT church heard His voice all over the earth, and came out of their graves like Lazarus did a few weeks prior. The OT church was the firstfruits of the NT church.

However, the thief on the Cross already proved that the soul at death went to a permanent incorruptible body in Paradise. That was the promise Jesus made that day. Not that the thief would bodily raise in the future. The Cross was the Last Day Resurrection! All those from Abel to John the Baptist were resurrected at the Cross. Lazarus was the premier example of that Last Day Resurrection that happened at the Cross. Their resurection was the physically changed incorruptible body resurrection. They ascended with Jesus after Jesus met Mary, and has not ascended yet. It was an ascension that Sunday, because Jesus Christ came back in a different form that same day. Mark 16:12

12 After that, Yeshua appeared in another form to two of them as they were walking into the country.

At the end of the church, at the Second Coming, there will be some who do not "walk through the valley of the shadow of death"; the point a soul leaves a physical corruptible body that is dead, but they are changed in a type of ascension, we call the rapture. What is lost is the fact, the soul leaves this corruptible body just like the thief on the Cross never to return to that corruptible body. The permanent incorruptible body is already in Paradise.

That point seems lost even to preterist in all their historicity. The OT church did not die again. That is an impossibility after the Cross. If that were the case, then Jesus had to physically die to get to Paradise as well. No where in Scripture can you find that, except maybe, Peter at Pentecost. However Paul says at the Second Coming Christ will being them with bodies with Him as He is physically resurrected.

Peter was not directly stating a doctrine. Peter was using an illustration which was never verified if King David was still in his tomb. At the least his corruptible body was, but his soul and incorruptible body was at that time physically in Paradise. The First Resurrection is not a when. The First Resurrection is a type, it is a physical incorruptible body, that can never die again. It is the body that can be touched by all since after that first ascension with the OT church.

Even the NT church will come with Christ the Lamb at the Second Coming to meet those alive who remain, in the air. The church is one since the Cross, no more separation of the OT from the NT church.