Only 2 Comings by Lord Jesus, Not 3

[101G]

GOD is 3 Persons, God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit. All 3 make up the Godhead. So of course Jesus is God The Son. But it was Jesus that was born in the flesh to die on the cross, with The Father raising Him. And that... is what is written in His Word. The false 'oneness' doctrine of men's traditions that goes against The Godhead being 3 Persons will never admit this difference, EVEN THOUGH IT IS WRITTEN. Thus you're just arguing with yourself.

Davey, Davey, Davey, listen to what you said, "GOD is 3 Persons, God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit. All 3 make up the Godhead. So of course Jesus is God The Son". I have a question for you, "Is Jesus the (me) in Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:" ..... Yes, or NO?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Wrangler]

Zechariah 9:9-10 prophesied only TWO. You need to read and also 'heed'... your Bible, and not man.

Sir, one way you know you are wrong is the Jewish people do not prophecy 2 comings of the Messiah. On top of that, if you are relying on Zechariah 9:9-10 as prophesying 2 Comings, I do not see it any predication of a 2nd Coming. (I thought you were relying on NT verses).

9 Cry out with joy, O daughter of Zion!
Shout jubilantly, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Look—your King is coming;
He is righteous and able to save.
He comes seated humbly on a donkey,
on a colt, a foal of a donkey.
10 I will dismantle Ephraim’s chariots,
retire the warhorses from Jerusalem,
send home the archers to their families in peace.
He will make peace with the nations;
His sovereignty will extend from coast to coast,
from the Euphrates River to the limits of the earth.
Zechariah 9:9-10 (Voice)

 

[Timtofly]

GINOLJC, to all
first thanks for the reply, second, Paradise been open, but we haven't got there yet, not as a whole, (body). the first fruit is not the harvest, which will come afterward, or latter, just as the bible states. and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 prove this, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" the body is not split, some here other there ... no.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Paul in the first century claims shall. 1991 years after the Cross, we can say have been.

We as living can in no way prevent this ongoing phenomenon.

 

[101G]

Paul in the first century claims shall. 1991 years after the Cross, we can say have been.

We as living can in no way prevent this ongoing phenomenon.

Christ the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. nuff said,

my only suggestion to anyone, is this....... be about your father business, for the Holy Ghost said it best by his prophet Amos 5:18 "Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light."
Amos 5:19 "As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him."
Amos 5:20 "Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?"

so why the rush? ... for me... TAKE YOUR TIME LORD. Amen.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Timtofly]

Christ the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. nuff said,

my only suggestion to anyone, is this....... be about your father business, for the Holy Ghost said it best by his prophet Amos 5:18 "Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light."
Amos 5:19 "As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him."
Amos 5:20 "Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?"

so why the rush? ... for me... TAKE YOUR TIME LORD. Amen.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The Cross was a dark day. I doubt one should reject the Cross, do you?

It was the stumbling block that caused the downfall of Israel just as Amos claimed.

I am not sure why you hold to that view of the Cross. It was the Atonement for sin. It was not very great for the house of Jacob as Amos mentions.

Because of the Cross we have hope of a bright future, when the Second Coming brings an end to sin and the death sin brings.

 

[101G]

The Cross was a dark day. I doubt one should reject the Cross, do you?

I reject the cross....... let that settle in.... (SMILE), but I rejoice in accepting the saviour who hanged on the cross, and here's why I reject the cross, because he's not on it anymore!... hooray, secondly, Galatians 3:13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" NOW IF YOU LOVE THE CROSS SO MUCH, THEN CONTUINE IN SIN, because me I love the after effect... next verse, Galatians 3:14 "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." you see Timtofly, I have no desire for world things anymore. not even my flesh nor the Lord Jesus natural flesh of this world, scripture, 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." BINGO, see just like the CROSS, is no more for me... maybe you, because you might like a curse every now or then, not me... YIKES!.

It was the stumbling block that caused the downfall of Israel just as Amos claimed.

ERROR, not the Lord Jesus, but their own IGNORANCE, just as today, you have the IGNORANCE masses, just following blindly these so-called leaders of today as then. mass hysteria of a half TRUTH, which is better known as a full lie. that's the stumblock ... us, yes, we ourselves. we don't read with the Holy Ghost, just believe what some man say. and as history has proved out... even kill for that false belife. now you do the math.

I am not sure why you hold to that view of the Cross. It was the Atonement for sin. It was not very great for the house of Jacob as Amos mentions.

see above

Because of the Cross we have hope of a bright future, when the Second Coming brings an end to sin and the death sin brings.

see above.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Davy]

Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. this same word can be translated as "rudiments" as in Colossians 2:8. and the reason why I say this, FOR HERE IN PETER, is it's in the plural
G4747 στοιχεῖον stoicheion (stoi-chei'-on) n.
1. something orderly in arrangement.
2. (by implication) an initial element of a fundamental series.
3. (literally) fundamental principle.
4. (figuratively, plural) the elements.
[neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of G4748]
KJV: element, principle, rudiment

NATURAL THINGS OF THE EARTH AND HEAVENS.
and the second reason why I go with the natural elements is because here in 2nd. Peter "element" is a noun, whereas, as you say is in reference to "order" like a world time, well the root from where this word originates is a verb, but here in 2 Peter it's used as a noun in the plural, so I would have to go with the translation of "rudiment" as in the understanding of element. because this word can be translated as rudiment, see above.

The actual subject of 2 Peter 3 also defines how "elements" is applied. What's Peter subject? He's speaking of 3 separate world earth ages, the world that then was was the first one, the heavens and the earth which are now is the second, today's world, and the new heavens and a new earth is a third one, and is still yet to come. So use your common sense, did God literally destroy the whole earth between the 1st and this present 2nd world? No. Nor will He with the destruction of this present one, but only a similar cleansing of the earth's surface of man's works like He did before, which is what Peter is talking about, and even reminding... the brethren about. So tunnel vision on the word "elements" leaves that simple matter Peter is covering on a much larger scale.

this is the destruction of Judah, and not the whole world. Jeremiah 4:20 "Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment."Jeremiah 4:21 "How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?"Jeremiah 4:22 "For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."Jeremiah 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."Jeremiah 4:24 "I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."Jeremiah 4:25 "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."Jeremiah 4:26 "I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger."Jeremiah 4:27 "For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."Jeremiah 4:28 "For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it."Jeremiah 4:29 "The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

No, the Jeremiah 4:23-28 is not about the destruction of Judah because of their rebellion against God. It is a 'reminder' to Judah of what God did once before to the earth, like a warning. And that is the meaning of the Hebrews 12:25-29 Scripture also, a reminder of how He before destroyed man off the earth, and how this next time He has promised to do it with fire, His consuming fire.

 

[Davy]

ERROR, God have three titles, and he's not three persons, (Iaiah 44:8). only the Holy Ghost is the ONLY Person in the Godhead, who is Jesus by name. (John 5:43) also, JESUS is not born, the body that Jesus came in was born, (Isaiah 9:6). and it was JESUS, who is the Father that raised his body from the dead, (see John 2:18-21). now what was written is that JESUS who is the ONLY God raised his own body/temple up.
nope, it's not me arguing with myself, no, it's you arguing from ignorance.

Davey, I have given scripture to every statement you posed, now if I'm in ERROR, please post scripture, not only opinion, if.. but with scripture.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Hebrews 1 says Jesus is the express image of His Person (God The Father). Even Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:23-28 reveals Jesus as a Person in The Godhead separate from The Father for Christ's future time of reign over His enemies. And when that is done, Paul says He (Jesus) will be subject to The Father, and then God will be all in all.

1 Cor 15:23-28
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Davey, Davey, Davey, listen to what you said, "GOD is 3 Persons, God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit. All 3 make up the Godhead. So of course Jesus is God The Son". I have a question for you, "Is Jesus the (me) in Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:" ..... Yes, or NO?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Let's face it, in this life you will never... understand how The Godhead is 3 Persons.

The Jews had a difficult time with this, and still do, which is why they crucified Jesus because He said He was God. In their thinking, no man born in the flesh through woman's womb could ever be GOD.


John 17:20-22
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
22 And the glory which Thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are one:
KJV

John 10:30
30 I and My Father are one.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Sir, one way you know you are wrong is the Jewish people do not prophecy 2 comings of the Messiah. On top of that, if you are relying on Zechariah 9:9-10 as prophesying 2 Comings, I do not see it any predication of a 2nd Coming. (I thought you were relying on NT verses).

9 Cry out with joy, O daughter of Zion!
Shout jubilantly, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Look—your King is coming;
He is righteous and able to save.
He comes seated humbly on a donkey,
on a colt, a foal of a donkey.
10 I will dismantle Ephraim’s chariots,
retire the warhorses from Jerusalem,
send home the archers to their families in peace.
He will make peace with the nations;
His sovereignty will extend from coast to coast,
from the Euphrates River to the limits of the earth.
Zechariah 9:9-10 (Voice)

Many don't understand how the Zech.9:10 verse applies to Christ's 2nd coming, mainly because of lack of study in Bible prophecy.

Zech 9:9-10
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV

Those 3 sets of phrases all point to the future after Christ's return, for only then will the battle bow be cut off from Jerusalem, or don't you know Bible prophecy for what is to occur at Jerusalem on the day of Christ's return on "day of the Lord"?

The phrase in green is showing the future time of Christ's reign over 'all' nations with the "rod of iron" of Psalms 2. That rod was promised to Christ's elect also who reign with Him per Revelation.

The phrases in purple one cannot miss how that's about Christ's future reign over the 'whole earth'. And for those familiar with God's River of Genesis 2 that flowed out of His Garden of Eden on earth, that's "the river" being referred to there, as it is prophesied to return per Ezekiel 47 and Revelation.

So how... could the serious Bible student miss all this???

 

[Taken]

Only 2 Comings by Lord Jesus, Not 3
OP^

Where is the POST of Anyone claiming 3?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Many don't understand how the Zech.9:10 verse applies to Christ's 2nd coming, mainly because of lack of study in Bible prophecy.

Zech 9:9-10
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV

Those 3 sets of phrases all point to the future after Christ's return, for only then will the battle bow be cut off from Jerusalem, or don't you know Bible prophecy for what is to occur at Jerusalem on the day of Christ's return on "day of the Lord"?

The phrase in green is showing the future time of Christ's reign over 'all' nations with the "rod of iron" of Psalms 2. That rod was promised to Christ's elect also who reign with Him per Revelation.

The phrases in purple one cannot miss how that's about Christ's future reign over the 'whole earth'. And for those familiar with God's River of Genesis 2 that flowed out of His Garden of Eden on earth, that's "the river" being referred to there, as it is prophesied to return per Ezekiel 47 and Revelation.

So how... could the serious Bible student miss all this???

Be fair. Zechariah 9:9-10 might refer to the second coming of Christ, but this text isn't specific enough, on it's own, to support that view. You say these verses point to the Second coming of Christ. Maybe they do and maybe they don't. The connection you see may be valid or maybe not. The point is, these two verses alone aren't definitive. Given this to be the case, is it fair to question the integrity of those who disagree with you?

I don't see the second coming of Christ in those verses. I see a coming of Christ, yes. But the Jewish people, including the disciples of Jesus, didn't know anything about a Second Coming from the Hebrew Scriptures. Zechariah 9:9-10 reads like a first coming. We only know about a Second Coming in hindsight, based on the fact that Jesus fulfilled verse 9 during his earthy ministry AND he died on a cross, which was a mystery. The idea that the messiah would die on a cross, which sequentially takes place between verse 9 and 10, was unknown to the Hebrews. How could one man fulfill both verses but also die before verse 10?

This is why Paul calls the cross of Christ "a mystery". Until the events surrounding the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Christ took place, no one could have understood a second coming from the Hebrew Scriptures. Only in hindsight can anyone understand Zech 9:10 to be a prediction of the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Pre-tribulationalism wrongly teaches there are 3 comings by Christ. The 1st was His coming to die on the cross. The 2nd time, which they try to be sneaky and say it really isn't a 2nd time, is alleged to be prior to the "great tribulation" to gather the Church, originally what John Darby in 1830's Great Britain said was a "secret" coming. And then they teach the 2nd coming is after the tribulation returning with Jesus to do battle, which that actually is a 3rd one in their false teaching.

Again, be fair in your critique brother. If someone claims that the rapture isn't a "coming" of Christ, is it fair to put words in their mouth?

What is a coming of Christ?

When the Bible talks about a Second Coming of Christ, it speaks of his entry into Jerusalem as king. Zechariah 9:9 speaks about such an entry, but unlike the Roman Generals who entered Rome riding on a horse, Jesus came into Jerusalem riding on a donkey.

Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your king is coming to you;
He is just and endowed with salvation,
Humble, and mounted on a donkey,
Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

But the rapture is substantially different. Jesus will arrive, but when he does, he will remain up in air, in the clouds.

17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

We see from the verse above, taken from 1Thessalonians chapter 4, that Jesus doesn't come to the saints; the saints go up to meet Jesus in the air. This is not a time when Jesus comes to Jerusalem as King, riding on a horse or even a donkey. The verse above is not describing a "coming" of Christ in that sense. One might argue that it describes an "arrival" of Christ; but a coming of Christ is when Jesus physically enters Jerusalem in a ceremony whereby the public acknowledges his rightful sovereignty over Israel (and ultimately the entire world).

 

[Randy Kluth]

Davey, Davey, Davey, listen to what you said, "GOD is 3 Persons, God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit. All 3 make up the Godhead. So of course Jesus is God The Son". I have a question for you, "Is Jesus the (me) in Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:" ..... Yes, or NO?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

When God is speaking as the "Godhead," you will not get a distinction of the Persons of the Trinity. The Trinity implies that one God is expressed in 3 distinct persons. The Godhead implies a single God. So when the "Godhead" is speaking, it will always be expressed as a single Deity. But when an individual Person of the Deity is speaking, it will be speaking of one of the 3 Persons of the Trinity.

In the OT, prior to the Incarnation, you get God speaking largely as the Godhead, identifying Himself as a single God. At Jesus' Baptism, after the Incarnation of God, you have the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all being represented as distinct Persons in the Trinity. The Father is speaking of His Son, and the Spirit lights upon the head of Jesus. They are there being represented as 3 distinct Persons in the Trinity, and yet expressing a single Deity.

 

[101G]

The actual subject of 2 Peter 3 also defines how "elements" is applied. What's Peter subject? He's speaking of 3 separate world earth ages, the world that then was was the first one, the heavens and the earth which are now is the second, today's world, and the new heavens and a new earth is a third one, and is still yet to come. So use your common sense, did God literally destroy the whole earth between the 1st and this present 2nd world? No. Nor will He with the destruction of this present one, but only a similar cleansing of the earth's surface of man's works like He did before, which is what Peter is talking about, and even reminding... the brethren about. So tunnel vision on the word "elements" leaves that simple matter Peter is covering on a much larger scale.




No, the Jeremiah 4:23-28 is not about the destruction of Judah because of their rebellion against God. It is a 'reminder' to Judah of what God did once before to the earth, like a warning. And that is the meaning of the Hebrews 12:25-29 Scripture also, a reminder of how He before destroyed man off the earth, and how this next time He has promised to do it with fire, His consuming fire.

ALL IN ERRORS.

 

[101G]

Hebrews 1 says Jesus is the express image of His Person (God The Father).

just put on your thinking cap just for a second. if Jesus is his, his, his, express image, then who is it? his IMAGE, ... think, your car is yours correct, possessive. now think for another second.... if I take YOUR PICTURE, who IMAGE is it? daffy ducks? ... no, bugs bunny? how about Jeffrey Dahmer? ... a littler closer... no, the IMAGE is YOU if I take you picture, the IMAGE is you. now are we still with out thinking cap on?... listen, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
the TERM "express image" is the Greek word,
G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image

notice definition #3. "character”, do you know what it means metaphorically, or in the spiritual domain? listen, G5207, huios metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. see it now? this is why we're called sons of God because we act like or have the same characteristics od God. to do right. that why Cain was called the son of the devil, because he did or acted just like satan the devil. hence the title the son of the devil, or the son of satan. because he acted just like their daddy.

so son here in reference to the Lord Jesus is as said a title, of "character” not in a son, biological, no, but a son spiritually. this is what many a christian argure from ignorance on, the devil had a baby with mother Eve. ignorant argument. but that image of God in Flesh is God himself... scripture, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." and he was in his, his, his, own person...... "HIS"... BINGO.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

When God is speaking as the "Godhead," you will not get a distinction of the Persons of the Trinity. The Trinity implies that one God is expressed in 3 distinct persons. The Godhead implies a single God. So when the "Godhead" is speaking, it will always be expressed as a single Deity. But when an individual Person of the Deity is speaking, it will be speaking of one of the 3 Persons of the Trinity.

we must disagree with that assertion. and here's why, it's in distinction, listen,
Isaiah 52:5 "Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed."
Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."
now one more scripture,
Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

God, the "LORD" all caps is speaking, and he said that his, his, his, people will know his name, and his people will know that it is he, who in that day SPEAK.
lets fast forward to that DAY, John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."

"I AM HE". Isaiah 52:6a "Therefore my people shall know my name". ok, what is the NAME? JESUS, and what is the Father's name? JESUS, the same PERSON, only Diversified. because he came in his, his, his, ....possessive .. Father's name name. so there is no "DISTINCTION", the Father is the Son, the same one God, no Distinction. if it is then, .... one has two "LORD'S", which would contradict Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" bwcause it was the LORD who was speaking in Isaiah, but it was the "Lord" who declared it that DAY.

and here's the catcher, because, if you have two LORDS then you're in violation of Deuteronomy 6:4. and if as one poster said, the "LORD", all caps, and the "Lord", are interchangable, if so, then the DISTINCTION argumen goes right out the door. see how people just lie to try in fit their man made doctrine into God word for harmonization. it want work, what do light have with darkness? nothing. see when one say the three are distinct, well Isaiah, Deuteronomy, and John say nope, no Distinction, the same one person.

sorry Randy Kluth, only one person, and one person alone was speaking and it was JESUS, the one PERSON. it's so easy to expose the lies of men, and their false man made doctrine.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Randy Kluth]

we must disagree with that assertion. and here's why, it's in distinction, listen,
Isaiah 52:5 "Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed."
Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."
now one more scripture,
Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

God, the "LORD" all caps is speaking, and he said that his, his, his, people will know his name, and his people will know that it is he, who in that day SPEAK.
lets fast forward to that DAY, John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."

"I AM HE". Isaiah 52:6a "Therefore my people shall know my name". ok, what is the NAME? JESUS, and what is the Father's name? JESUS, the same PERSON, only Diversified. because he came in his, his, his, ....possessive .. Father's name name. so there is no "DISTINCTION", the Father is the Son, the same one God, no Distinction. if it is then, .... one has two "LORD'S", which would contradict Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" bwcause it was the LORD who was speaking in Isaiah, but it was the "Lord" who declared it that DAY.

and here's the catcher, because, if you have two LORDS then you're in violation of Deuteronomy 6:4. and if as one poster said, the "LORD", all caps, and the "Lord", are interchangable, if so, then the DISTINCTION argumen goes right out the door. see how people just lie to try in fit their man made doctrine into God word for harmonization. it want work, what do light have with darkness? nothing. see when one say the three are distinct, well Isaiah, Deuteronomy, and John say nope, no Distinction, the same one person.

sorry Randy Kluth, only one person, and one person alone was speaking and it was JESUS, the one PERSON. it's so easy to expose the lies of men, and their false man made doctrine.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Unfortunately, you are in a very small minority within Christianity. Most of Christian history has taken as its doctrine the creeds of the Early Church. Oneness doctrine has always been rejected as heterodox and in error. I understand the logic behind God is one, therefore He is one Person.

But the problem is, God doesn't fit into the categories of man that you would impose upon Him. He can reveal Himself in an unlimited number of persons that appear in finite form, because as an infinite Being He can reveal His personhood in any number of finite revelations, as we see them.

He can appear as an angel, or as a Theophany. Unless He can do so, He cannot appear in the form of Jesus Christ. And if He did not appear in the form of Jesus Christ, in accordance with your doctrine, you do not hold to conventional Christian beliefs.

The Spirit Himself assumes a finite revelation, in some sense, because we can see His activity. And any activity that can be seen is a finite revelation.

And yet, both Spirit and Christ, though they are finite revelations, are originating from the one true and infinite God. How this can be is impossible for us to know, because as finite beings we can conceive of the possibilities and also of the logic. But not being infinite ourselves we can never understand what that is. We can only understand the logic of it, and even the likelihood of its existence.

I suggest you just accept it and join the multitudes of those who believe the orthodox truth, that Father, Son, and Spirit express both a relationship of Persons and a unity of Deity. One infinite substance revealed in different finite revelations.

God's word can assume any shape that God wants, assuming it is in character with who God is. And He can even assume a personhood that expresses who He is.

That's what He did in Christ. Christ revealed the Father, but he was still distinct from his Father as a human person. He had to be distinct from the Father since he was representative of a finite revelation, or man, and God in His infinite stature is much greater than a mere finite human being.

The human person, in the case of Christ, expressed, by the word of God, God's own Person. He expressed, in a very real sense, 2 persons, the person of Jesus and the person of God. Two persons and one God. Two persons and one divine Person, or Deity.

 

[101G]

Unfortunately, you are in a very small minority within Christianity.

that's ok, for as one of my brothers here has already posted, Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
only a "FEW" good men and women find it... so being in a very small minority... "THANKS". great confirmation.

Most of Christian history has taken as its doctrine the creeds of the Early Church. Oneness doctrine has always been rejected as heterodox and in error.

according to WHO? ... (smile), see above. .................NOT GOD.

I understand the logic behind God is one, therefore He is one Person.

that's good to hear, B U T? .... here it comes,

But the problem is, God doesn't fit into the categories of man that you would impose upon Him.

well I never impose it, but he did ... lets check the record, Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
God said, this man who is HIS, HIS, HIS, fellow. God said this, listen to what FELLOW means,
H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.

do you see A. how the definition states this fellow is a kindred man. and we all know that this man is the Lord JESUS. now lets see this "kindred man". scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
here the word "offspring" is,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

there is that kindred man of Zechariah 13:7, the offspring, or KIN as in "KINSman REDEEMER.... BINGO. GOD himself in flesh as, as, as, a MAN.

and B. in H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') above, this FELLOW, this kindred man who is God's FELLOW, is the ANOTHER of God in flesh, just as how the KJV can translate this word. Oh my God, how clear can one Gets. and this aANOTHER of God in Flesh is called the "OFFSPRING", which is another word for ..... yes, "Diversity". meaning, "DIVERSIFIED ONENESS" see Randy, I'm a ONENESS, but not like the UPC teaches, and some others. I'm a "DIVERSIFIED ONENESS".
big difference.

so we suggest you re-read this post again, for full edification.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[amigo de christo]

Lets make it real simple . JESUS already came once . He fullfilled the law , and he took on the sins
He paid the price . so that all who do BELIEVE in HIM would be saved . But those who believe not
will be damned . AND HE Will come again the SECOND TIME .
If one misses that , ITS OVER and DONE . YA UNDER THE WRATH OF GOD .
Noah a preacher of righteous built an ark . Only eight got on .
THERE was no second ark to come for those who might have come later .
LOTT got out of sodom , and the wrath came pouring down ..............there was not other little group
that would later repent .
NO . WHEN JESUS COMES for the church , YA BETTER had been watching and walking as we outta walk .
Lest that day be a day of wrath .
COME ye one and come ye all to JESUS CHRIST , the biblical one , and enter into the ARK , the body of Christ
lest ye find yourselves under the wrath of GOD . Or lest ye die tonight and get told I never knew you .
TIME to sound out the glorious gosple of truth and all sound biblical doctrine .
AND ITS HIGH TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD .