OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

[amadeus]

You already know what I am going to say here.

I can see clearly they DO lose their sonship..they do lose their " Good and faithful servant" But God clearly shows a level in heaven just as there already are ..Archangels, angels, cherubim's, seraphim's etc etc

There will also be a clear order in heaven.
THAT is what we are in Jeopardy of losing...

As David said in Roman's 4:6 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works.."

But you know that- 'from me' don't you.

I know, Helen, but I also continue to see the final reward of Saul and the unnamed prophet sent out of Judah to northern kingdom. I see many other things which are the vision I have received. I must look to that vision until God gives me another while you must look to what God has given you. Each of is walking the pathway set before us as the part we are, or are to be, in the Body of Christ. We cannot follow another person's vision. We can only see with our own eyes.

 

[Helen]

I know, Helen, but I also continue to see the final reward of Saul and the unnamed prophet sent out of Judah to northern kingdom. I see many other things which are the vision I have received. I must look to that vision until God gives me another while you must look to what God has given you. Each of is walking the pathway set before us as the part we are, or are to be, in the Body of Christ. We cannot follow another person's vision. We can only see with our own eyes.

Agree John.
Marymong would say..."How come the Holy Spirit doesn't say the same thing to everyone." Haha!! You and I could say the same here

One day we will know all things...but at the moment we must stand where we stand, until or unless God speaks something different , or opens our eyes and tells us that we got it wrong.

Bless you... Helen

 

[amadeus]

Agree John.
Marymong would say..."How come the Holy Spirit doesn't say the same thing to everyone." Haha!! You and I could say the same here

One day we will know all things...but at the moment we must stand where we stand, until or unless God speaks something different , or opens our eyes and tells us that we got it wrong.

Bless you... Helen

I believe that God made things this way on purpose to see how well we could treat one another when we really we see seemingly different things from the same scriptures. God is not expecting us to find precisely the same explanations, but He does include in His plan as a primary thing, love or charity toward each other as well as toward Him. If we were to bicker and come to hateful thoughts and name calling as we have seen, perhaps we would both very much displease God and suffer the consequences.

 

[Helen]

I believe that God made things this way on purpose to see how well we could treat one another when we really we see seemingly different things from the same scriptures. God is not expecting us to find precisely the same explanations, but He does include in His plan as a primary thing, love or charity toward each other as well as toward Him. If we were to bicker and come to hateful thoughts and name calling as we have seen, perhaps we would both very much displease God and suffer the consequences.

...

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus said, "it is finished" man agree with satan and say. "no it is not".

You deliberately fail to qualify what 'it is finished' means because it suits you to make it mean whatever your imagination conjures up to support your point of view yet you will not put it in writing because you know you will be held accountable for what you print.

Either way, credibility hinges on your answer or your non answer.

 

[Taken]

By this logic, I have never one met a (what you would call) truly converted Christian, not in all the churches I've visited. I have met some wonderful people, who truly strive to be like Christ, whom have burning testimonies of Him, and truly have been transformed by Him. But none that do not ever commit sins against their fellow man and God. Each one at some point each lies, gets prideful, or otherwise falls short.

So, IF Converted Bill lies to Converted Jane...

Converted Bill is Committing a Sin?

Who Forgives Converted Bill of this "sin"?

God Bless,
Merry Christmas
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

understand your dialect?

sorry, i'm sure my last response to this made no sense to you lol--i assumed i would be shortly following it up--and that was maybe a better reflection of what might have happened 30 years ago, maybe not so much now, dunno. i see you're in good company here anyway

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Even so...!
Yet our goal is or should be to overcome as Jesus overcame so that the Tree of Life will open to us. People do make it, but not because they say they repented in full that first time at the altar. They make it because they had the attitude of David instead of the attitude of Saul. God has made available to people today more than was available to people in the time of David so the limitation or lack thereof of Luke 12:48 apply.

People want to say I have crossed the line and I cannot step back behind it again. The truth is that while we may have crossed the line, we do not have to step back behind it again, but we certainly can. Someone should not want to step back behind that line even as Adam and Eve should not wanted to disobey God. They did and so can we even when we have been consistently on His side. What an terrible choice to make, but they did it and we are not better than them. God is no respecter of persons. The opportunity to fail He gave them He has also given to us. If you never choose wrong, there is nothing to worry about... no matter what you believe about the line.

Fantastic post!!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So, IF Converted Bill lies to Converted Jane...

Converted Bill is Committing a Sin?

Yes. He is in need of repentance and turning back to the Lord. Same with any person lying to any other person-- ain't nothing special about one person or another.

EVERY person on this planet sins EVERY day. EVERY person is in desperate need of Him EVERY day. EVERY person should strive to come closer to Him EVERY day. We should never advert are eyes off of Him. To draw lines in the sand or to otherwise advert our eyes from Him by labeling people or pretending you don't continue to sin & need Him still --- those are all egotistical follies.

 

[Taken]

Yes. He is in need of repentance and turning back to the Lord.

I don't get that rational.
My scenario was about a lie "between men."

How did "that" become either "turning away from the Lord" ?

Same with any person lying to any other person-- ain't nothing special about one person or another.

EVERY person on this planet sins EVERY day. EVERY person is in desperate need of Him EVERY day. EVERY person should strive to come closer to Him EVERY day. We should never advert are eyes off of Him. To draw lines in the sand or to otherwise advert our eyes from Him by labeling people or pretending you don't continue to sin & need Him still --- those are all egotistical follies.

In the scenario between TWO men...

How does the "forgiveness" work?
Does one ask the other for "forgiveness of such sin" ?

And does one have the power to "forgive the sin"?

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Yes. He is in need of repentance and turning back to the Lord.
I don't get that rational.
My scenario was about a lie "between men."

How did "that" become either "turning away from the Lord" ?

Because this man has turn away from the Lord to sin and violated the Lord's commandment. He has sinned against the Lord AND his fellow man.

In the scenario between TWO men...

How does the "forgiveness" work?
Does one ask the other for "forgiveness of such sin" ?

And does one have the power to "forgive the sin"?

He gets down on his knees as asks the Lord for His forgiveness, as well as acknowledging/apologizing to the man he lied too.

 

[Taken]

Because this man has turn away from the Lord to sin and violated the Lord's commandment. He has sinned against the Lord AND his fellow man.

No. One man lied to another man.
Nothing was said about eithe turning away from the Lord.

He gets down on his knees as asks the Lord for His forgiveness,

I specified, both men were Converted.
Isn't a Converted man, Already Forgiven?

as well as acknowledging/apologizing to the man he lied too.

So, those would be ONE man asking another man to Forgive him...OF SIN?

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

No. One man lied to another man.
Nothing was said about eithe turning away from the Lord.

Mark 12:28-34 King James Version (KJV)
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

The liar violated the Lord's 2nd great commandment and has thus sinned against the Lord (as well as his fellow man).

I specified, both men were Converted.

Irrelevant.

Isn't a Converted man, Already Forgiven?

Conversion is not a license to sin. Every lair has need of repentance and forgiveness.

So, those would be ONE man asking another man to Forgive him...OF SIN?

No. The lair gets on his knees and asks for God's forgiveness. He also goes to the man he wronged, acknowledges he lied, and apologies for it.

 

[Taken]

Mark 12:28-34 King James Version (KJV)
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

The liar violated the Lord's 2nd great commandment and has thus sinned against the Lord (as well as his fellow man).

Could you please quote me a scripture that says One man lying to another man IS a Sin Against God?

Conversion is not a license to sin.

Did ANYONE bring that up? Make such a comment? If not, (which I did not)... WHY say such a thing to me, AS IF THAT has any baring whatsoever on our conversation?

Every lair has need of repentance and forgiveness.

Why? Did the Lords Forgiveness, fail?
Why? Does a Converted man CONTINUE to COMMIT SIN?

The lair gets on his knees and asks for God's forgiveness.

I do not agree with that.

Because....? The man SINNED AGAINST GOD, by lying to another man?

Please provide this Scriptural reference, because I can not find such a reference.

Also could you provide the Consequence?

He also goes to the man he wronged, acknowledges he lied, and apologies for it.

I agree with this, but Not because of a Committed sin, as a reason of what transpired between the two.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Could you please quote me a scripture that says One man lying to another man IS a Sin Against God?

Mark 12:28-34
Anything less than loving your neighbor is a direct violation of the second Great Commandment and a sin, yes even a sin against God because they are His commandments.

Did ANYONE bring that up? Make such a comment? If not, (which I did not)... WHY say such a thing to me, AS IF THAT has any baring whatsoever on our conversation?

Because you are acting like you believe conversion is a license to sin.
It is not.
When a converted man sins then he sins. He is in need of repentance and forgiveness.

Why? Does a Converted man CONTINUE to COMMIT SIN?

Yes. Again, being converted is not a license to sin.

 

[Taken]

Mark 12:28-34
Anything less than loving your neighbor is a direct violation of the second Great Commandment and a sin, yes even a sin against God because they are His commandments.

Uh....wait a minute, now you are talking about Love. Where did this come from?

Are you trying to say, People can not, do not lie to people they love?

Because I totally disagree with that, that love has ANYTHING to do with lying to another person.

Because you are acting like you believe conversion is a license to sin.

That is false. And offensive. I have said NOR INDICATED such STUPID nonsense.

If you had READ what I did say....what Scripture says....is that a Converted man "CAN NOT COMMIT SIN".

How do you remotely translate that to mean,

"Conversion is a license to sin"

?

When a converted man sins then he sins. He is in need of repentance and forgiveness.

If you can not reveal in Scripture what you are claiming, please just say so.

Again, being converted is not a license to sin.

It is nauseating for you to repeatedly interject
Off topic nonsense. It should be more than obvious, NO ONE has claimed that....so why keep trying to make a point against something NO ONE has said they believe?

Not trying to be difficult. Just asking you to state your belief, and the Scripture that supports your belief.

Not asking what "you don't believe"....or what "you think" I believe.

So far, it appears as if, you believe:

Men sin Against men, and must ask God to forgive them. IF, that is so, Please quote the supporting Scripture?

That Converted men CONTINUE to SIN.
IF, that is so, Please quote the supporting Scripture?

God Bless,
Merry Christmas
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Uh....wait a minute, now you are talking about Love. Where did this come from?

Are you trying to say, People can not, do not lie to people they love?

Because I totally disagree with that, that love has ANYTHING to do with lying to another person.

Lying is specifically included in the 2nd Great Commandment, which is a summarization of the 10 commandments dealing with men.

That is false. And offensive. I have said NOR INDICATED such STUPID nonsense.

If you had READ what I did say....what Scripture says....is that a Converted man "CAN NOT COMMIT SIN".

I'm trying not to be offensive here. Trying really hard.
But saying that it's impossible for a a converted men to sin is the same thing as saying he has the license to sin.

Rather, a man who is converted can and does sin, after which he needs to repent and turn back to God-- re-committing himself to Christ (all done with Christ's power, of course). Continual relationship with Christ, continual washing.

Men sin Against men, and must ask God to forgive them. IF, that is so, Please quote the supporting Scripture?

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." -Jesus Christ, John 14:15.
A man that have violated the commandments of God has violated his love of Christ.

 

[Taken]

Lying is specifically included in the 2nd Great Commandment, which is a summarization of the 10 commandments dealing with men.

Scripture? Book, Chapter, Verse?

I'm trying not to be offensive here. Trying really hard.
But saying that it's impossible for a a converted men to sin is the same thing as saying he has the license to sin.

Personally, I believe part of a mans Conversion, is in regard to a man receiving the Seed of God, and being born again.

J John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Do you believe, 1 John 3:9 is teaching, a man born of Gods Seed.....is being given a "license TO SIN" ? Because what it says is He CAN NOT SIN, and WHY.

Rather, a man who is converted can and does sin, after which he needs to repent and turn back to God-- re-committing himself to Christ (all done with Christ's power, of course). Continual relationship with Christ, continual washing.

There in lies our difference....I do not believe we have the same "understanding" of WHAT, Sin means, regarding WHOM, and WHEN, and WHY....it is or is not SIN.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." -Jesus Christ, John 14:15.
A man that have violated the commandments of God has violated his love of Christ.

That is hocus pocus. There is nothing in Scripture about "violating Gods love".

Gods Love belongs to God, and He gives it freely to the World, whether or not the world accepts it.

An individual can accept Gods Love or reject Gods Love, but can not violate Gods Love.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Scripture? Book, Chapter, Verse?

Exodus 20:16

Personally, I believe part of a mans Conversion, is in regard to a man receiving the Seed of God, and being born again.

J John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Do you believe, 1 John 3:9 is teaching, a man born of Gods Seed.....is being given a "license TO SIN" ? Because what it says is He CAN NOT SIN, and WHY.

When a man sins (which all man can and do), he is no longer of God, but a servant of the devil doing the devil's ways (see the earlier verses in the same chapter). He needs to repent and come back to God. Yes, this happens time and time again.


Defintion of sin: To commit sin is to willfully disobey God’s commandments or to fail to act righteously despite a knowledge of the truth (see James 4:17).

That is hocus pocus. There is nothing in Scripture about "violating Gods love".

Gods Love belongs to God, and He gives it freely to the World, whether or not the world accepts it.

An individual can accept Gods Love or reject Gods Love, but can not violate Gods Love.

My previous statement was not very clear. My apologies for that. My meaning clarified--

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." -Jesus Christ, John 14:15.
The man that have violated the commandments of God has violated his (the man's) love of Christ. A man whom truly loves Christ strives to keep his commandments.

 

[Heb 13:8]

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." -Jesus Christ, John 14:15.
The man that have violated the commandments of God has violated his (the man's) love of Christ. A man whom truly loves Christ strives to keep his commandments.

and God's agape love for man can be found in Rom 8:35, 38-39.