OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

[Taken]

I disagree with your conclusion, but what is in your heart is what matters, I believe, for you and God. I would guess that your situation, if true, might come as per these verses:

"Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Rom 14:22-23

I cannot see it for me that way. I have faith for another way, which I believe is right with God. Is it possible that God will accept both of us without change? What do I know of these things? If you really have faith for the way you say, who am I to say nay. That is between you and God.


And Merry Christmas to you my friend. I am sorry I could not respond to every sentence and thought, but I was unable to concentrate on it all and keep it together in my brain to remain meaningful. Hopefully what I have answered will help you understand where I am even if you cannot be in precisely the same place.

Give God the glory!

If a man has become saved, the "change(s) God accomplishes within that man IS what is acceptable to God, for that man to be with Him forever.

Rom 1:12

1. [1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Should that man, a Forgiven, Saved, and Born Again man, DO WORKS THAT GLORIFY Gods Name ON earth....Then he shall be rewarded....not punished.

Matt 6:20
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Hi Jane,


Wow...I openly "scorn" you. Where did I do that? I have been blunt with you and you take it as scorning. However when your blunt with me it is____________ (fill in the blank)

scorn defined:

1. open contempt or disdain for a person or thing; derision
2. an object of contempt or derision
3. archaic an act or expression signifying contempt
4. to treat with contempt or derision
5. (tr) to reject with contempt

If your mad at me for speaking my mind and holding my ground on my beliefs, practices and doctrines and you believe by me doing this causes a disconnect or division then you must REALLY be mad at Jesus (Luke 12:51) and the Apostles (Romans 16:17-18, 1 Corinthians 1:10-13).

At least I am not trying to avoid you like scripture says I should.

Mary

Mary, Christ and His teachers loved other people. You do not. I am pointing that out and trying to urge you to follow the Savior's example. Until you do that, then your foundation is very different than Christ's.

 

[Taken]

This topic is one that is based in time, Once Saved Always Saved. Yet this perspective speaks nothing of God's eternal view. Let me pose a few simple questions to stimulate thought.

1. When is salvation for the believer enacted?

When the believer calls on the Lord with a heartfelt Confession of Repentance for Not Believing, and Confession of Belief, in God, in Christ the Lord Jesus.

2. Will God be surprised by who is saved or not saved?

No.

3. For an eternal being (God) does he experience time in the same manner as us finite creatures?

I would not say "experience", but rather, "observes" His creations and making, per the timeframe He created for them....while He Himself is outside of a timeframe.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

1. When is salvation for the believer enacted?

When the person accepts the Lord as their Savior and choose to follow Him. This isn't something you put a singular date to, but a lifelong+ process.

2. Will God be surprised by who is saved or not saved?

God isn't surprised by anything. That doesn't mean things are pre-destined, just that God has perfect knowledge.

3. For an eternal being (God) does he experience time in the same manner as us finite creatures?

An parent's big-picture view is always different than the toddler's "I want it NOW!" view. So much more so for the perfect parent (God).

 

[amadeus]

Knowing who is a brother in Christ, is the basic. Individually growing in understanding, IS "individual". That does not "affect" Brothers "IN Christ", that that may be corrupted.

I don't do some things at all. Some things I would only due when given no other real choice. I have 4 natural brothers. Three of them send me cards every year for my birthday and Christmas. Only one of those three calls me once in a great while to talk. The 4th one, the only one close to me in physical distance [60 miles] simply severed all contacts with me even though I really I tried to for a long time to retain, regain or establish a connection. When the effort is only one sided, what could I or should I expect?

If we are brothers in the Lord, how could we be disconnected? One or both us could simply sever any communications. Sometimes I may back away from a person when I realize nothing edifying is occurring or is likely to occur. But... it really becomes difficult as the old shell of flesh weakens continuing on its downward spiral toward the end.
Having said all of that negative stuff, let us now accentuate the positive and give God the glory.

Didn't repost all your text...but will try to hit on your points.

Man can DO NOTHING, without God.
The very most basic thing a man CAN do, is choose to Hear Gods Word, that God provided from the beginning, and has servants spreading His Word across the this World.

The moment a man Hears the Word of God....the mans Choices begins..
1) continue hearing...or close their ears, and get out of ear-shot.
2) men are curious...and most will listen to some things....and there some men will be intrigued and continue...others will quickly form an opinion, and reject,
3) it is always the eager to hear, that advance more quickly...
4) it is always the ones who Continue...where God intervenes...
5) Hear...God begins "giving" Faith, to the mans "NATURAL" spirit, in his "NATURAL" heart.
6) to (13

Nothing by man without God... or is it perhaps nothing that is good? We are not really that far apart, you and I, we just seem to have a different idea of what it means to believe and what it means to be saved. But again, God knows our hearts.

You speak again of what is offered. The answer as I see it the ability to choose for ourselves and Adam and Eve did. But the choice is much more than saying, yes. If we say, yes, and fail to follow through as God requires, we have lied even to Him. Fortunately for us, He is very merciful. Even though we have said, yes, if we do not overcome the world our 'yes' effectively really meant 'no'.

(You could enter a Contest, say for a new car. They would notify you, you have won, it's yours, to come claim (by such and such a date)...say you missed the deadline date. Even though the car was yours to Claim, you missed the date, you forfeit the car. You lost the prize.)

( Perhaps a poor analogy....however, Salvation is similar. Every person naturally born, has "won the prize"...Salvation. It is theirs to claim and take. The deadline, IS Before the BODY, naturally dies. If a man misses the deadline, and does not take and claim his Salvation...he forfeits his Salvation. He has lost his Salvation.)

I believe that the taking of the prize requires a proper use of what God has given us. If we fail to do this, then again, we have taken up the means of doing His will, but failed to go ahead and do it.

14) Scripture is full of knowledge...to:
Hear, Learn, Find out what the Lord is offering you, Find out how to claim what He wants you to have.
15) oh, oh, that is so greedy, so say some.
16) to (22

I believe that unless we use what is given to us work toward the perfection, toward the overcoming Life, we have nothing coming at all at the end... simply the death that was ours already when we met Him.

Eternal, forever saved?
1) men are wishy-washy.
2) God is not.
3) Scripture notifies a man step, by step, (if a man bothers to study Gods Order).
OF what Exactly, HE SHALL DO, to every single BODY, "willing" to Become "Converted".
4) It always hinges on how much Effort, the man puts forth, TO HEAR His Word, which becomes Equal to How Much, Faith the man receives.
5) to (19

Yes, men are 'wishy washy' when they meet the Master. I believe that meeting him that first time is itself the door to opportunity. To actually walk through requires a loss of the 'wishy washy' attitude. The Tree of Life is on the other side of that Door. God gave men the opportunity to stop being 'wishy washy'... but they need to walk though that guarded closed Door to make it. Many want to start down the road of that opportunity, but few are willing to given up what has to be given up in order to make it. When a person is saved initially, he is saved from that which he really repented. The problem is that more remained that needed to be removed or cleaned up sometimes repeated in order to attain that final salvation. Until the last trial is completed, the final obstacle overcome, the possibility of failure is real. It need never happen when they have the power of God, but the power is in the Spirit. When a person quenches that Holy Spirit, there is not hope.

SIN...after having received Salvation?
1) NOT POSSIBLE.
2) Comprehend the difference of what SIN IS.
3) Jew? Sin is violation of the Law.
4) Jewish Law, is expansive, that includes in brief:
Laws, Statutes, Precepts.
...1) Laws, that allow
...2) Statutes, that prohibit
...3) to (26

After final salvation has been received it will not be lost, but ONLY those who have already overcome every obstacle between them and God have made it to the end of the temptations. Some people may say they have attained it, but for whom is that the truth? I know of none that I have met. we must repeatedly be saved from the adversary until he is finally defeated by us as the adversary was finally defeated by Jesus.

 

[Taken]

~amadeus~

Sorry about your brother issue. That is a natural brother issue. Ya'll may be IN Christ, but you are not communing IN Christ. Reasons, distance, aging, etc., matters neither here or there. It sounds more like the brotherhood, family, that you are missing and have some longing for.

We will likely never agree on Salvation, Sin, Trespasses....and no issue with me. I know why I believe what I do, as well, I am sure you have your own confidence in your beliefs.

Bottom line, I don't feel in the least that affects us either one Being IN Christ and sharing that brotherhood between us, and the love and praise and Glory and Thankfulness we each have for our Great Lord God Almighty.


God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

Amadeus ~ continued

The Point is...SIN.
WHAT is SIN.
WHEN is something a SIN.
And WHEN is SIN applicable to ANY particular man?

When I was naturally BORN...
I was not a Hebrew or a Jew.
I was not SUBJECT TO their Laws or Statutes.
I DID not believe IN God or Christ Jesus, or even KNOW, what that meant.

As God afforded the disciples, and anyone else, opportunity to HEAR His Word, so also are babies, who become children, who become men, given opportunity to HEAR His world.

I chose to hear, read, reread, study, read some more, and keep reading, and continue, and continue.
The Lord prepared me with His gift of Faith, to call on Him, and Confess my heartfelt belief in Him, in Christ Jesus, and the love for Him, and the Regret for having NOT believed.

I know, what my own heart thought.
I know, my confession was true.
I know, WHAT the Lord taught, would Follow AFTER my Confession to Him.
I know, that I was SURE, I was willing to Accept His Gifts, "AND" the consequences "OF those IN the World" would heap upon me.
And NOT for ONE second, DO I believe, His gifts were "not" given me....
Or that His gifts would EVER be "departed or taken away" from me.

I was Forgiven FOR....not obeying Laws and Statutes, given Hebrews? Jews?

Not at all.
I was Forgiven FOR...NOT BELIEVING!
THAT was MY SIN!
And my SIN of disbelief, Corrupted MY SOUL (and that was Restored, to NEVER again be Corrupted, By My Sin, that is Forgiven, and Covered with Gods indwelling Light).

Because I agreed, for Him to MAKE changes within me...and He DID so, there is ZERO possibility for me to EVER again COMMIT SIN....and "NOT Believe"!
...................................


God Bless your and your wife abundantly,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

You are saying, in effect, that you cannot sin after you have made an honest and complete confession to God. I would say that no matter how complete our confession if our heart and ways did not immediately overcome and/or eliminate every sinful way and attraction [such the works resulting from Gal 5:19-21] within the person he is still sinning before God. What is in the heart must eventually manifested by us, and be really like Him before we are finished. God will not take us if we are pressing on and yielding repeatedly to Him... not until it is all overcome. It is when stop working at repeatedly due to our lack of love for truth or our wearing, etc. that time will end for us with job incomplete. I could trace all of this with scriptures, but I won't because it will not convince you that I am right and that you are wrong. I am physically exhausted and must rest soon, but I cannot relax to sleep with this hanging. At times like this I wish I were not such a tired old man but there it is. You have not convinced me and even if I were to try to match each line or argument of your posts, I could convince you. I leave this in God's very capable hands to carry on if He deems it fitting to do so.

Thank for the blessing. May God richly bless you and yours as well as you walk with Him.

 

[amadeus]

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

And Merry Christmas to you as well.

 

[amadeus]

~amadeus~

Sorry about your brother issue. That is a natural brother issue. Ya'll may be IN Christ, but you are not communing IN Christ. Reasons, distance, aging, etc., matters neither here or there. It sounds more like the brotherhood, family, that you are missing and have some longing for.

We will likely never agree on Salvation, Sin, Trespasses....and no issue with me. I know why I believe what I do, as well, I am sure you have your own confidence in your beliefs.

Bottom line, I don't feel in the least that affects us either one Being IN Christ and sharing that brotherhood between us, and the love and praise and Glory and Thankfulness we each have for our Great Lord God Almighty.


God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

I do agree that the relationships that people build through Christ are not as those with our natural families. The flesh of every carnal body is wearing out and dying. The new man within us is to go the other direction... that is to never die.

As to my natural brothers, I don't give them much thought any more except when I complete their birthday and Christmas cards each year. They have chosen their ways and I have chosen mine. None of my brothers to my knowledge is serving God now. They included in my prayers. But a prayer only helps, it does not save. The person still has to choose for himself.

 

[Taken]

You are saying, in effect, that you cannot sin after you have made an honest and complete confession to God.

I am saying that, yes.
Scripture is also saying that.
1 John 3:9

I would say that no matter how complete our confession if our heart

Do you realize a Converted man, does not have the same Heart?
A circumcised new heart, is part of the Conversion.

before we are finished.

Don't get me wrong, I said nothing about being "finished".

Conversion includes many things...and my point is Once God Accomplishes those particular things, THAT is what is Done, Once, and forever.

There is much more a man can do, and for doing more, he will receive more. Do less, receive less.

I am physically exhausted and must rest soon, but I cannot relax to sleep with this hanging.

Rest my friend. No worries. Should the Lord call up His Church tonight, I'd be seeing you.

Thank for the blessing. May God richly bless you and yours as well as you walk with Him.

You are welcome, and thank you as well,
God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Marymog]

Mary, Christ and His teachers loved other people. You do not. I am pointing that out and trying to urge you to follow the Savior's example. Until you do that, then your foundation is very different than Christ's.

Sooooo where did I scorn you?

Why do you think you have the ability to determine if my "foundation is very different than Christ's"?

Curious Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Sooooo where did I scorn you?

Why do you think you have the ability to determine if my "foundation is very different than Christ's"?

Curious Mary

Mary, your lack of love to your fellow man is very apparent to everyone.

 

[Marymog]

Mary, your lack of love to your fellow man is very apparent to everyone.

You are the one who said I scorned you. Are you unable to back up your own statement? If so it makes it a false statement.

Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You are the one who said I scorned you. Are you unable to back up your own statement? If so it makes it a false statement.

Mary

Mary, you scorn posters on here regularly (including me). You don't even listen or see other people here, let alone love them. Until you reach that point of love, your message isn't going to go anywhere.

 

[Marymog]

Mary, you scorn posters on here regularly (including me). You don't even listen or see other people here, let alone love them. Until you reach that point of love, your message isn't going to go anywhere.

Got it......you have no evidence. So either you misspoke or you lied......I wonder which one

Curious Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Got it......you have no evidence. So either you misspoke or you lied......I wonder which one

Curious Mary

Mary, this^ post itself is a scorn.

How about instead we speak from a place of love?

 

[Marymog]

Mary, this^ post itself is a scorn.

How about instead we speak from a place of love?

Got it....you have ZERO evidence of your original accusation of me scorning you....

Here is me speaking to you from a place of love: Don't accuse someone of something without evidence. When anyone does that it destroys relationships and people are less likely to take you seriously.

BTW....After all this bickering back and forth I forgot, do you believe in the OSAS theory?

Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Got it....you have ZERO evidence of your original accusation of me scorning you....

Here is me speaking to you from a place of love: Don't accuse someone of something without evidence. When anyone does that it destroys relationships and people are less likely to take you seriously.

BTW....After all this bickering back and forth I forgot, do you believe in the OSAS theory?

Mary

Mary you are REGULARLY scorning me and other non-Catholics posters on here. This post does it, as the one before, the one before that, etc. You even openly declared it sinful to respect and love those that have different beliefs. That is massive scorn. And yes, it makes people write you off as an un-Christ-like jerk.

I am trying to help you here. I know Catholicism. I know the Christ-like love they preach. I want you to hear that message-- that very message your own priests preach. I want to help you be a better Catholic.

 

[Heb 13:8]

1 Cor 16:14

 

[Marymog]

Mary you are REGULARLY scorning me and other non-Catholics posters on here. This post does it, as the one before, the one before that, etc. You even openly declared it sinful to respect and love those that have different beliefs. That is massive scorn. And yes, it makes people write you off as an un-Christ-like jerk.

I am trying to help you here. I know Catholicism. I know the Christ-like love they preach. I want you to hear that message-- that very message your own priests preach. I want to help you be a better Catholic.

Really??? I "openly declared it sinful to respect and love those that have different beliefs"? Which post was that in?

Patient Mary