I asked you to consider
Hebrews 6:4-6, thinking that you will come to realize one thing and its obvious necessary strong implication. That the truth and situation for the truly and already saved Christian, is that it is impossible for them to be restored to repentance unto Christ again.
Stop -- words written in Greek, must be read in Greek. It's not "impossible" --- it is
"adunatos, unable/powerless/impotent. What is the
cause of the powerlessness-to-restore-them-to-repentance? Willful sin. That'ts why NASB footnote says "impossible/unable to restore them to repentance
WHILE they crucify Christ to themselves anew (by repetitive sin).
It is. While you are right in pointing out the Greek word “adunatos” as to mean powerless, a great majority of the translations, if not all, got the message right. For what
<<<What is the
cause of the powerlessness-to-restore-them-to-repentance? Willful sin.>>>
I think this is one where misunderstanding of the passage comes from. Firstly, the question you posed is as if the powerlessness is not on the person, but on another. If that were what the passage is saying, who then is powerless to restore/renew them to repentance? But what the passage says is that it is impossible for the person to come to repentance, that is, to change his mind yet again, back to believe in Christ Jesus. He does not have the power to do that.
You say that the cause as to why he cannot be restored them again to repentance, is willful sin. In other words you are pointing to one’s will or one’s power, as the power behind that causes him to be powerless to restored again to repentance? That by itself sounds absurd. Even if that we take that to make some sense, such power would fall in what Paul said in Romans 8:38-39, which is as follows “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”.
Besides, as to why it is impossible for him to be restored back is expressed in Hebrews 6:6 as follows “since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God,”.
Now, obviously this impossible thing only arises IF they fall away
Again, the Greek does
NOT say "IF they fall away" --- it is aorist active participle,
their falling away is a fact.
Does not take away the fact, that a situation where one falls away, renders the one as forever lost because as it is impossible for one to be renewed back to repentance, for the reason given in the end part of verse 6. And this, if at all, it could happen, renders Jesus Christ to have not fulfilled the will of the Father concerning those whom He had given to the Son to raise up in the last day unto eternal life.
It’s an absolute thing. There is no exception given that goes with this. One cannot say that they can be restored as long as they do this or that.
Doesn't matter what one says or you say or I say, the writer clearly said it was their willful sinfulness that's the problem. The context is 5:11-14 and 6:1-6 --- those who ARE FALLING, are the same ones as described in ch5 as "babes". They walk in sin and unrepentance.
Of course, what matters is what scriptures say. And we both are here trying to tell each other what, in out understanding is what scriptures say. Sadly we differ. And so we reason.
<<<the writer clearly said it was their willful sinfulness that's the problem.>>>
Nope. But yes, that is what you say.
To explain further, take for example, for the sake of illustration, that a truly saved Christian fall away into unbelief, rejecting the gospel and Jesus. When that happens, he could not be restored again to repentance, no matter what.
Not what it says.
Perhaps not to you, but it is to me.
There is nothing that he could do to be saved again. That is what
Hebrews 6:4-6 is saying.
Well fine; let's just take a heavy black ink marker and mark out James5:19-20, and many others...
Why would you want to do that?
Now, what is the obvious necessary strong implication of that? It is that no truly saved Christian will fall away and be lost.
Sigh.
I understand why. Allow me to give an unsolicited advise. Just try your best to defend what it is you think scriptures is telling you and not step over the work of the Holy Spirit. Leave the work of conviction to Him.
Now why are there who are said to have fallen away into unbelief, rejecting the gospel and Jesus? Who are they if the truly saved ones can not fall away? Who else, but are the ones who are not of the truly saved ones.
You really think "enlightened", "tasted good word of God and powers of age to come" (exactly the same as "Jesus
geuomai-tasted death Heb2:9), "PARTNERS in the Holy Spirit", are "never-truly/actually-saved"?
The writer labors extensively to expose them as WERE saved. The warning of 6:4-6 is the same as 10:26-29 --- if we continue sinning willfully after having (been saved), Jesus' sacrifice no longer covers us! Golly, Tong -- why doesn't Heb6:7-8 and 11-12 convince you? We can produce EITHER good fruit and be blessed, OR thorns and be burned;
we need diligence to imitate those who by faith and patience inherit the promises.
No offense -- what would it have to say to be clearer?
<<<You really think "enlightened", "tasted good word of God and powers of age to come" (exactly the same as "Jesus
geuomai-tasted death Heb2:9), "PARTNERS in the Holy Spirit", are "never-truly/actually-saved"?>>>
Look at Israel. Were they not enlightened when God have shown to them who He is? Have they not shared tasted the good word of God? Of course they did. However, are they all true believers?
<<<The writer labors extensively to expose them as WERE saved.>>>
Does the writer know their heart? The writer believes (by presumption) they all are. However, that does not mean that they all actually are.
The very reason, as I gather, why he writes and speak to them in such manner, is exactly because he sees not in them what is expected of a true believer in God and in Jesus Christ, in the gospel that had been preached to them by the apostles. For if that were not so, he would find no reason to write to them these things.
Tong
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