Our Heavenly fathers official warning! Now we're cooking!

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Giuliano

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Now, Jesus clearly said that we must become as little children to enter into the kingdom of God, so is it really a matter of finding that "innocent child" in yourself? Can we, as Nicodemus asked, enter again into our mother's womb to be born again?
Jesus answered that question in that same conversation with Nicodemus:
You know nothing about that conversation with Nicodemus. You follow a tradition of men. Can you explain for us where "born again" is in the Old Testament? Jesus said Nicodemus should know about it. That means it's in the Old Testament. Can you explain for us how those born from above can move like the wind?

You launched into a sermon while ignoring my main point which was objecting to your assertion that "enmity with God is our natural state at birth." That is libeling God, accusing Him of creating us in a state of enmity with him. Enmity with God is not "natural." That is unnatural. If we are separated from God, if we have enmity with God, we are the guilty parties, we did it -- He didn't. So don't lie about how mankind gets into his messes. Let God be true and every man a liar. Sinners all once knew the truth and rejected it.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


There is no excuse for sinning. It is simply wrong to try to justify sinning by saying we were born that way, that the "natural" state of man was enmity with God.

You have not yet returned to the natural state God created you in. If you had, you couldn't think the way you do. You would know the natural state we are created in was that of the child who loves others and who wants to be loved. Seeking God out of fear, wishing to escape punishment, may be a first step; but you need to go a little further and repent of your sins and stop blaming God for creating you "bad." You also need to start looking at children the way God looks at them. One more step remains for you: Become like "one of the little ones."

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
 
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quietthinker

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Speaking of Noah, do you think God wanted evil men to build their own arks so they could survive the flood and continue being wicked after? Evil men may want to escape the "wrath to come" as John the Baptist put it; but only those who repent and want to become good will be saved.
You know the story. Why would you ask such a question?
 

Giuliano

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You know the story. Why would you ask such a question?
If evil men, motivated by fear, had believed Noah, they could have built their own arks and not drowned. I don't know: What was Noah preaching all the time he was building his ark? Was he telling people what the ark was for, or was he telling people to repent? The only clue I have is that Peter said he preached righteousness. I don't know if he was also preaching fear. I don't know.

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

God saves the righteous, not the sinful who are trying to escape punishment.

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
 

Giuliano

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What a pitiful blathering of "fear-mongering" throughout this whole thread.
You know what? I wouldn't mind it so much if it didn't make Christians look like delusional wackos to non-Christians.
 
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Bobby Jo

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We are all commanded to spread out the gospel and build each other up, who's to say I'm not living out my faith? Are you with me 24/7?

... only to the point of:

#1 There's no magical Tribulation-era "rapture". We're told in ENDURE in Rev. 13 & 14, and so we must.
#2. Jesus will not "be there to meet our needs". Lke 22:35-36 instructs us to use our own PURSE, BAG, & SWORD.
#3. We're not ~approaching~ the Tribulation, -- we're already half way through the 42 months (Rev. 13:5).
#4. Per #3, there is NO 7-year-Tribulation. That's a FALSE rendering taken from Dan. 9, which has NOTHING to do with the Tribulation except that the "destroyer" "SHALL COME" after the seventieth "week".​

And if I were to add a #5, it would advise us to NOT TRUST THE HIRELING. He's most likely in the business for his own benefit. We REALLY must establish our own PERSONAL relationship with GOD (1 Cor. 14:26).


And WELCOME!
Bobby Jo
 

quietthinker

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If evil men, motivated by fear, had believed Noah, they could have built their own arks and not drowned. I don't know: What was Noah preaching all the time he was building his ark? Was he telling people what the ark was for, or was he telling people to repent? The only clue I have is that Peter said he preached righteousness. I don't know if he was also preaching fear. I don't know.

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

God saves the righteous, not the sinful who are trying to escape punishment.

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
Noah preached both. His words weren't hollow. The construction of the Ark was evidence of the impending flood he was warning about. It is little different today. Just as there was a message of climate change resulting in cataclysmic events so the message today except this time Peter tells us the planet is reserved for destruction by fire. Any bible student worth his salt would know this...it has not been kept secret.
 

Giuliano

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Noah preached both. His words weren't hollow. The construction of the Ark was evidence of the impending flood he was warning about. It is little different today. Just as there was a message of climate change resulting in cataclysmic events so the message today except this time Peter tells us the planet is reserved for destruction by fire. Any bible student worth his salt would know this...it has not been kept secret.
You know more than I do. So far as I know, the Bible states he preached righteousness.
 

Bobby Jo

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... The construction of the Ark ... there was a message of climate change resulting in cataclysmic events ...

If an "ice asteroid belt" passing through our solar system is "climate change", then I guess "global thermonuclear war" is ALSO "climate change".


And if a vehicle catches on fire and consumes the driver, then we can blame it on "climate change"! ;)
Bobby Jo
 

michaelvpardo

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You know nothing about that conversation with Nicodemus. You follow a tradition of men. Can you explain for us where "born again" is in the Old Testament? Jesus said Nicodemus should know about it. That means it's in the Old Testament. Can you explain for us how those born from above can move like the wind?

There is no excuse for sinning. It is simply wrong to try to justify sinning by saying we were born that way, that the "natural" state of man was enmity with God.
Well hello again junior. It's not my assertion that the natural state of man is enmity with God, but it is the scriptures' assertion. You should try reading them, perhaps you'll learn a little. The Old testament doesn't use the words "born again" to describe the experience of receiving new life in Christ, but the new covenant was described in terms of receiving a new heart "of flesh", and that would be in the book of Ezekiel in chapter 11 and again in chapter 36. Keep reading, keep studying, and always ask the Lord to show you the meaning of scripture. No one is too dense to learn.
By the way, it isn't the born again believer who "moves like the wind" but the Spirit of God who goes where He wills, giving new life to whom He chooses. The phrasing of the passage in John chapter 3 is a bit archaic, but the only way to understand the meaning is to be born again and then to renew the mind in sanctification through the word.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 1 Corinthians 2:13-15​
 
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Bobby Jo

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If an "ice asteroid belt" passing through our solar system is "climate change", then I guess "global thermonuclear war" is ALSO "climate change".

And if a vehicle catches on fire and consumes the driver, then we can also blame it on "climate change"! ;)
Bobby Jo

To All,

Just to clarify, -- Iridium is an element which is not a naturally occurring on earth. The ONLY source is extra-terrestrial. And SURPRISINGLY Noah's "Flood" sediment layer INCLUDES SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF IRIDIUM. -- In fact, this is where Iridium is typically mined from, and this layer can also be seen in European Castle & Church quarried walls.

And also SURPRISINGLY, this same "ice asteroid belt" created the "canals" on Mars, and COMPLETELY RESURFACED VENUS.


But how many "religious" people go any further than the regurgitation from the pulpit?!?
Bobby Jo
 

Giuliano

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Well hello again junior. It's not my assertion that the natural state of man is enmity with God, but it is the scriptures' assertion. You should try reading them, perhaps you'll learn a little.
Why not quote that passage?
The Old testament doesn't use the words "born again" to describe the experience of receiving new life in Christ, but the new covenant was described in terms of receiving a new heart "of flesh", and that would be in the book of Ezekiel in chapter 11 and again in chapter 36. Keep reading, keep studying, and always ask the Lord to show you the meaning of scripture. No one is too dense to learn.
Getting a new heart would not be getting an entire new body in a new birth.
By the way, it isn't the born again believer who "moves like the wind" but the Spirit of God who goes where He wills, giving new life to whom He chooses. The phrasing of the passage in John chapter 3 is a bit archaic, but the only way to understand the meaning is to be born again and then to renew the mind in sanctification through the word.
The language isn't that hard to grasp.

John 6:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That's talking about two separate bodies -- not getting a new heart in an old body.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Again that's not hard to understand. The person born of the Spirit can move like the wind. Of course, the Spirit moves like the wind and so can those born of the Spirit. Yes, like Ezekiel could move -- and he was also called "Son of Man."

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 1 Corinthians 2:13-15
I write to you as someone who has had experiences of my own. I have talked with angels and demons. I have moved like the wind outside of my body. So please don't play the superiority act with me as if you're so spiritual and I'm so carnal.

I watched some of your videos. You were right to want to test the spirits, but you allowed yourself to be duped. When God wants to reveal Himself to someone in order to have him act as a prophet, the first time He does it is done in one of two ways. The person hears a voice in a dream, or he has a vision.

Numbers 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

The first time God reveals something to a prophet happens in a calm moment, not when someone feels anxious or agitated. Some of the things you've heard could indeed be true; but you could also be putting the wrong spin on them. You would not be agitate if you had everything right; and you would not be acting so superior with me, as if you are someone special.

To be sure, there are some souls born in a state of enmity with God; but do not assume that all are.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

I also tell you that Jesus' disciples were not born in a state of enmity with God. They were God's sheep. When they heard the Voice of Jesus, his sheep came at his call. They were not goats who suddenly became sheep. They were already sheep. And some sheep wander off and get lost. Have you not read where Jesus spoke about the one lost sheep? Have you not read where the prophet speaks of God's people as being lost sheep? Surely too you have read these passages:

Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

Isaiah 49:5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


Paul, Isaiah, and Jeremiah say they had a relationship with God before they were born. They did. Esau was born without that relationship -- yes, others like him are born in a state of enmity. The task of God's elect is often to bring the non-elect to repentance. God's Will is that all eventually be saved. To do that, the elect must be called and corrected in the things they may have allowed themselves to be corrupted by in this world.

Perhaps you were meant to be a prophet. I cannot say, I cannot judge; but if you were, you need find the initial relationship you had with God before you were born into this world and affected by it -- getting lost like a sheep gone astray as even the elect can. And if God does want to use you as a prophet, He will start doing when you are peaceful and things are still. It will be either speaking in a dream or by something appearing in a vision that lets you know for certain you're on the right track.

Psalm 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
 
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michaelvpardo

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Paul, Isaiah, and Jeremiah say they had a relationship with God before they were born. They did. Esau was born without that relationship -- yes, others like him are born in a state of enmity. The task of God's elect is often to bring the non-elect to repentance. God's Will is that all eventually be saved. To do that, the elect must be called and corrected in the things they may have allowed themselves to be corrupted by in this world.
Romans chapter 8 describes among other things, the state of the natural mind and the natural enmity with God that exists in all people before they are born again, but no passage of scripture stands alone, which is why I already quoted Paul describing our natural state as children of wrath. If you are a child of wrath then you are at enmity with God. The fact that scripture describes some of the prophets as known by God and called before their birth is not unique, scripture says that all those that are saved were chosen by Him before the foundation of the world:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. Ephesians 1:3-6
Which is the to say that He knew us all before our birth (because He is omniscient, not that we have been born a second time physically, or were preexistent before our birth.) The fact that we were chosen before hand by God and called according to His purposes does not negate our natural state of enmity with God. All the called were children of wrath before they were made spiritually alive again by receiving His Spirit. Those who are born again don't have new bodies (but will in the resurrection). You've greatly misunderstood these passages and apparently are not following a sound biblical hermeneutic in your studies, comparing scripture to scripture. The bible is more than a collection of books, but shares inspiration from God through His Spirit and God never contradicts Himself. If he did, He wouldn't be the God of scripture. Jesus expressed this one idea about spiritual understanding to his disciples after addressing the crowds with parables and telling them that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood:
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. John 6:61-63
To be born again is to be made alive in the Spirit, a subject to which the apostle Paul devoted a lot of material, not to receive a whole new body, but Paul describes our existence after the new birth as one of struggle with the old man (that resides in our mind) and the new man that resides in our spirit. The carnal mind is the fleshly mind, that which we were born with, but those with the Spirit of God, received by faith, have the ability to follow the Spirit of God and in that to be free from condemnation. That enmity between all men and God was put to death by the cross:
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Ephesians 2:14-15
In context Paul was writing to a gentile church and comparing them to the Israelites under the covenant of the law, but its important to understand that Jesus came to save both and the peace spoken of here is not the end of enmity between "Jew and Greek", but the enmity between man and God. God has given both those under the covenant of law and those "outside" access to Him through Jesus Christ. Prior to the resurrection of our Lord, the only access the Jews had to God (outside of those He met with and called according to His purposes) was through the high priest. Even the high priest only had limited access to God (through his approach to the mercy seat) once a year and only after atonement had been made for him through blood sacrifice. That separation represents the enmity between a Holy and Just God who must punish sin, and sinful man. Isaiah was called by God, but what was Isaiah's confession of his own nature?
5 So I said:

“Woe is me, for I am undone!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King,
The Lord of hosts.” Isaiah 6:5

What is the apostle paul's testimony of his own nature?
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 1 Timothy 15-16

All the saints were sinners who God chose to use. His presence with them and in them is what made them Holy, sanctified to God.
The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines the word enmity as : positive, active, and typically mutual hatred or ill will. In the context of scripture and an informed theology, if you have God defined as love, then His hatred of sin and "the wicked" has to be understood as His Holy and just response to sin. The hatred between man and God should be understood as man's hatred of God through the expression of our sin, and God's Holy response to sin in judgment. Those called by God were never free of sin, that expression of enmity, because "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". The notion that those who are born again live pure and sinless lives is contradicted by scripture itself:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10
In chapter 3 of the same book, John goes on to say that those who are born of the Spirit do not sin:
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:9
Reconciling chapter 3 to chapter 1 would be impossible without considering what the scripture says in other places.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:21-25
We have in the New testament scripture a description of two natures at war with each other in one body. You can argue that Paul wasn't born again of the Spirit of God, but what we observe in life is that those who don't know Christ have no such war going on within them. They simply do what they will in accordance to what they hold to be true, perhaps contrary to conscience, but still according to their own convictions. The scripture seems fairly clear that you either have His Spirit or you don't, but that total redemption doesn't occur until our bodies are raised free from sin (this isn't the moment of being born again, but of being fully redeemed.)
23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. Romans 8:23
It isn't possible to have "the firstfruits of the Spirit" without first having the indwelling of the Spirit and that indwelling is the "new birth", just as Adam received life free of sin by the breath of God.
Biblical language is confusing to some, but sometimes this is because we have writings from the perspective of man who experiences time and we have quotes of the words of God, who sees everthing as it is complete (being outside of time.) God chose all His saints before the foundation of the world, before any of us were ever born. He knows the end from the beginning. To Him we are complete, even before we've acknowledged Him or received the gospel, because He's always known us, who we are, and what we would do. That describes the quality of His omniscience, no more, no less.
I could go on, but either you get it or you don't, either you have Him or not, no more, no less.