Our hope for the Future

[Trekson]

In what NT book, chapter, and verse does Jesus promise a time of restoration for the nation of Israel?

There are way too many to list. Pick a prophet and read the last chapter. The odds are it will be there.

 

[Trekson]

In what NT book, chapter, and verse does Jesus promise a time of restoration for the nation of Israel?

Already answered.

 

[Trekson]

The issue is the difference between the physical and the spirit. Not the spiritual, the spirit. Paul is not claiming a spiritual body that is not physical. Paul is saying the difference between two physical bodies are like night and day. They are literally the difference between death and life.

The physical body from Adam is dead/temporal corruptible flesh. The physical body from God is permanent incorruptible flesh. Jesus and Scripture points out, Adam's body goes back to dust. The physical body currently in Paradise is forever, and cannot be touched by the second death. Going with John 3 the first death is physical, and we live it every day. The second death is spiritual and eternal in the LOF.

2 Peter 3 is not about the end of the millennium. There will be a destructive change to heaven and earth at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. This is the coming of the Day of the Lord. It is not the tail end of the Day of the Lord. When the 7th Trumpet stops sounding, it will be the end of Adam's 6,000 years of punishment of sin and death. It will be the end of Daniel's 70 weeks. There will be a new heaven and earth for the last Millennium. But it is not the new reality of the NHNE per Revelation 21. It is the new heaven and earth of Isaiah 65. Yes all the works of earth will be burned up, at the 6th Seal, the Second Coming. 2 Peter 3 will happen, and those on earth will still wait for the NHNE, according to 1 Corinthians 15:25-28.

"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Should it take 1,000 years? No, because time is not the point. The 1,000 years were witnessed by John and he wrote down there would be 1,000 years.

But we see terms in light of the church and the Gospel of Grace. Salvation by faith irregardless of nationality. That will change in the Millennium. There will be no sin, nor sinners. Disobedience results in instant death. Death is removal from the Lamb's book of life. All will have a permanent incorruptible physical body. No one will be living in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. That is what the final harvest is for after the 6th Seal. The sheep of Israel, and the wheat from all nations hand picked by Jesus as King personally. The final harvest will be the firstfruits, the first generation of humans to populate the earth.

The church will put on the spirit, a robe of white, and remain in Paradise until Paradise comes down as the New Jerusalem in the NHNE. Jesus hands back a perfect creation, not one burned to a crisp. The transition between current reality and the next reality will be seemless. The fleeing away part is this transition, and we will go from one to the next both in Paradise and on earth as if nothing happened.

I agree that the 6th seal begins the day of the Lord, but it lasts for over a thousand yrs. and has multiple aspects to it. It's just not a one and done thing. Regarding death and the millennium, that is "not" what the bible teaches. Eventually man's will, will egin to get the best of him and when satan is loosed again, it will become a time of human rebellion again. Death was destroyed at the cross and is defeated by every believer who dies and their souls go to heaven. The "first" of anything is never the "final" and the firstfruits began w/ Christ and Rev. 21 and 22 are the same as Is. 65.

 

[rwb]

You are correct but Israel does have a place in God's heart and a millennial destiny whereas the church has a heavenly destiny. The Israel of the millennium will be all born again literal Israeli believers in Christ and the law will never return despite what many dispensationalists like to claim. There were eternal land promises made to them and God keeps his promises.

Do you believe that Christ will not come again until His Kingdom is complete?

 

[rwb]

Rev 7 declares otherwise and they both will combine, the bloodline of Israel and faith in Christ.

You don't see Rev 7 making a distinction between Jews of old (144,000 remnant) and the innumerable multitude who have come out of great tribulation and washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb?

 

[rwb]

True, but the vast majority of the bible was written for Israel, not the church. We are still the add-ons and as of now there is no difference between a Jewish christian or a gentile one, but that will change in the millennium but this fact remains and will never change and that is that Jesus was a Jew. Those gentiles back in the day had to change who they were to be accepted into Israel. They had to proclaim belief in their God and become a Jew spiritually, and if male, they had to get circumcised and leave their gentile beliefs behind them. The bible makes it perfectly clear that human Israel will have an earthly destiny while the church has a heavenly one. The ultimate goal of God, imo, is to combine the two into one and that is what the NJ describes.

Is not the nation of Israel the church in the wilderness before the advent of Christ? Would you agree the Bible was written for the Church since Israel of old was the representation of the Church on earth before the advent of Christ?

Acts 7:38 (KJV) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

 

[rwb]

Perhaps one should concentrate on the many OT prophecies that declare otherwise. That Messiah will reign upon the earth over a stubborn humanity is pretty much prophecy 101.

Can you please show passage or verse that says Christ will reign UPON the earth?

 

[rwb]

In what NT book, chapter, and verse does Jesus promise a time of restoration for the nation of Israel?

Good question!

 

[covenantee]

The covenant being spoken of here is the "law"! Period!

Thanks for the guffaw.

Quote the Scripture which states "The covenant being spoken of here is the "law"! Period!"

Then provide just one name, date, source, and verbatim quote of any recognized defender of the true faith between the first and 18th centuries who asserted that "The covenant being spoken of here is the "law"! Period!"

Just one name, date, source, and verbatim quote.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Not just the law.

All the promises.

Unto the glory of God by us who believe it!!

 

[covenantee]

There are way too many to list. Pick a prophet and read the last chapter. The odds are it will be there.

Translation: Not one.

Because, you see, God is not a racist, notwithstanding those who incessantly and desperately attempt to make Him one.

Acts 10
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

 

[jeffweeder]

The sheep and the goats represent living humanity to see if they are worthy to enter alive into the millennial age.

Not so.
Jesus tells you what judgment is passed onto the sheep and goats.

Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

 

[Keraz]

You don't see Rev 7 making a distinction between Jews of old (144,000 remnant) and the innumerable multitude who have come out of great tribulation and washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb?

The 144k are selected out of the vast multitude. We Christians will each be assigned to one of the twelve tribes, all as described in Ezekiel 40 to 48
Proved by Isaiah 66:18b-21

 

[Trekson]

You don't see Rev 7 making a distinction between Jews of old (144,000 remnant) and the innumerable multitude who have come out of great tribulation and washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb?

The innumerable multitude is the raptured/resurrected church arriving in heaven, the 144,000 born again Israeli believers will stay on earth. Their destiny is different but just as wonderful.

 

[Trekson]

Is not the nation of Israel the church in the wilderness before the advent of Christ? Would you agree the Bible was written for the Church since Israel of old was the representation of the Church on earth before the advent of Christ?

Acts 7:38 (KJV) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Many read too much into that. The NT translates the word into church, but in the OT it was called a synagogue. The meaning is the same, "a meeting place for the called out ones" But of course, I agree that the church is the fruit of the seeds planted from the religion of the Jews, but they are not the exact same.

 

[Trekson]

Can you please show passage or verse that says Christ will reign UPON the earth?

I have over 6 full pages but I'll just post the ones from Zechariah.

Zech. 2:4 - “And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:”

Zech. 2:10-12 - “ Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord. 11 And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee. 12 And the Lord shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.”

Zech. 3:8 - “Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.”

Zech. 6:12-13 - “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord: 13 Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.”

Zech. 8:3-23 -

Zech. 14:9-11 - “And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. 10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

 

[Trekson]

Thanks for the guffaw.

Quote the Scripture which states "The covenant being spoken of here is the "law"! Period!"

Then provide just one name, date, source, and verbatim quote of any recognized defender of the true faith between the first and 18th centuries who asserted that "The covenant being spoken of here is the "law"! Period!"

Just one name, date, source, and verbatim quote.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Not just the law.

All the promises.

Unto the glory of God by us who believe it!!

Try reading Heb. 8 and recognize that the NC is not yet complete and won't be until Israel is abiding in the millennium, vss. 11-12. There are several covenants in the OT. Covenants and promises are two different things, see this article: Difference Between Covenant and Promise | Compare the Difference Between Similar Terms.

 

[Trekson]

Translation: Not one.

Because, you see, God is not a racist, notwithstanding those who incessantly and desperately attempt to make Him one.

Acts 10
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Read my response to rwb I have over six full pages of scripture, I gave him just a few.

 

[Trekson]

Not so.
Jesus tells you what judgment is passed onto the sheep and goats.

Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Exactly, the "nations" are on the earth and the majority of the sheep will be Israelis and vss. 35-46 show us upon what acts they are being rewarded for. There is no scripture which speaks of the "nations" in heaven. The "foundation of the world" also speaks of the earth, not the eternal spiritual kingdom.

 

[covenantee]

Try reading Heb. 8 and recognize that the NC is not yet complete and won't be until Israel is abiding in the millennium, vss. 11-12. There are several covenants in the OT. Covenants and promises are two different things, see this article: Difference Between Covenant and Promise | Compare the Difference Between Similar Terms.

Matthew 26
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Nothing incomplete there.
Jesus extended a complete New Covenant to His disciples.

2 Corinthians 3
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Nothing incomplete there.
God has made us able ministers of a complete New Covenant.

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

Nothing incomplete there.
An everlasting Covenant is a complete Covenant.

Waiting for just one name, date, source, and verbatim quote from recognized orthodox Christianity between the 1st and 18th centuries which supports your claim of an incomplete New Covenant.

 

[covenantee]

Covenants and promises are two different things

Clearly rebutted.

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The Covenant was established upon the Promises.

They are inseparable.