PAUL WROTE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PRETRIB RAPTURE TEACHERS

[Keraz]

Great news for the Jews. After they repent God restores them.

This is never Prophesied to happen. Have you a reason for posting false ideas?

Cleanse Your Holy Land and give strength to Your People:

Psalms 68:1-35 Let the Lord arise, let His enemies be scattered. Let those who hate Him be gone! Let the Lord’s enemies perish in His fiery judgement 1, like wax before a fire and as smoke is dispersed.
Lord: summon Your strength, use it now as You did for Your people long ago. Rebuke those wild beasts, those proud and arrogant sinners; all those who love violence and war 2. All power and strength belongs to the Lord, enthroned on high. Cleanse now Your holy Land and give strength to Your people, we pray.

The Lord says: I shall bring My enemies together into the place of slaughter, from wherever they are. I will smite them there, their blood will flow out so that you can bathe your feet in it and your dogs will lick it up. Psalms 63, Micah 4:11-12

When the Lord speaks out in mighty thunder 1, kings and their armies will flee in terror. When the Almighty scatters those evil peoples and clears the holy Land, snow will fall on Mt Zalman 3.

We sing the praises of our Saviour and Redeemer. He who rides on the clouds, He is our Father and the defender of His righteous people, but those who refuse to acknowledge Him will remain in the desert 4.

When the Lord saves His people, there will be thousands of vehicles for them 5, as He leads them to safety through the barren desert. The earth will tremble and rain will pour down to replenish the holy Land 6. There Your people will settle, for in Your goodness Lord, You provide for the poor and needy.

The procession of all Israel comes into view; into the Holy city. First the singers, then the musicians. The little tribe of Benjamin will lead, with Judah, Zebulon and Naphtali following, marching on their way the Zion’s holy mountain: on to the Temple in Jerusalem. Kings will bring gifts and envoys will come from far off nations to honour and praise Israel’s God. His Majesty and blessing is over the holy Land , the Lord enthroned in heaven will give strength to His people 7.
Praise be to God!
Ref: REB, CJB. Psalm 68 in a chronological order.

1/The Lord’s judgement by fire; an earth directed CME explosion of the sun: Isaiah 30:25-28, Malachi 4:1, Isaiah 66:15-16, Revelation 6:12-17, 2 Peter 3:10

2/ The Islamic peoples who love war and death: Ezekiel 35:5-6, Proverbs 1:16

3/ Mt Zalman – near Shechem. [Nablus] This detail informs us that the Day of the Lord’s wrath will happen during a Northern winter. Judges 9:48, Matthew 24:20

4/ Then all of the Lord’s people are gathered, all of the faithful Christian peoples from every tribe of Israel from every race, nation and language, are then ‘passed under the rod of judgement’. Ezekiel 20:35-38…’those who revolt and rebel will not enter the Land’. Deuteronomy 32:36, Isaiah 35:1-10

5/ The Lord will provide transport! Isaiah 66:20, Psalms 107:1-32, Isaiah 60:1-9

6/ All of the holy Land will be regenerated and become fertile: Ezekiel 36:8-11, Isaiah 35:1-2, Isaiah 66:12, Joel 2:21-26, Amos 9:13-15

7/ Strength and comfort to His faithful, righteous people: Isaiah 40:29-31, Jer. 31:21-26, Zech. 10:12

Note: that the Lord remains ‘enthroned in heaven’. The glorious Return comes later. The Lord's true Christian people, from every tribe, [of Israel] every nation, [of the world] every language, [ethnic group] will gather in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9.

WE Christians will build the Temple, Zechariah 6:15.

WE will elect our own leaders, Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11.

WE will greet Jesus after all that is prophesied takes place, with the shout: Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord!

 

[dad]

This is never Prophesied to happen. Have you a reason for posting false ideas?

Have you a reason for calling this false??
Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Isaiah 11:11-12

Then it will happen on that day that the Lord
Will again recover the second time with His hand
The remnant of His people, who will remain,
From Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath,
And from the islands of the sea.
And He will lift up a standard for the nations
And assemble the banished ones of Israel,
And will gather the dispersed of Judah
From the four corners of the earth.

Source: 23 Bible verses about Land Permanently Restored To Israel

Cleanse Your Holy Land and give strength to Your People:

Psalms 68:1-35 Let the Lord arise, let His enemies be scattered. Let those who hate Him be gone! Let the Lord’s enemies perish in His fiery judgement 1, like wax before a fire and as smoke is dispersed.
Lord: summon Your strength, use it now as You did for Your people long ago. Rebuke those wild beasts, those proud and arrogant sinners; all those who love violence and war 2. All power and strength belongs to the Lord, enthroned on high. Cleanse now Your holy Land and give strength to Your people, we pray.

The Lord says: I shall bring My enemies together into the place of slaughter, from wherever they are. I will smite them there, their blood will flow out so that you can bathe your feet in it and your dogs will lick it up. Psalms 63, Micah 4:11-12

When the Lord speaks out in mighty thunder 1, kings and their armies will flee in terror. When the Almighty scatters those evil peoples and clears the holy Land, snow will fall on Mt Zalman 3.

We sing the praises of our Saviour and Redeemer. He who rides on the clouds, He is our Father and the defender of His righteous people, but those who refuse to acknowledge Him will remain in the desert 4.

When the Lord saves His people, there will be thousands of vehicles for them 5, as He leads them to safety through the barren desert. The earth will tremble and rain will pour down to replenish the holy Land 6. There Your people will settle, for in Your goodness Lord, You provide for the poor and needy.

The procession of all Israel comes into view; into the Holy city. First the singers, then the musicians. The little tribe of Benjamin will lead, with Judah, Zebulon and Naphtali following, marching on their way the Zion’s holy mountain: on to the Temple in Jerusalem. Kings will bring gifts and envoys will come from far off nations to honour and praise Israel’s God. His Majesty and blessing is over the holy Land , the Lord enthroned in heaven will give strength to His people 7.
Praise be to God!
Ref: REB, CJB. Psalm 68 in a chronological order.

1/The Lord’s judgement by fire; an earth directed CME explosion of the sun: Isaiah 30:25-28, Malachi 4:1, Isaiah 66:15-16, Revelation 6:12-17, 2 Peter 3:10

2/ The Islamic peoples who love war and death: Ezekiel 35:5-6, Proverbs 1:16

3/ Mt Zalman – near Shechem. [Nablus] This detail informs us that the Day of the Lord’s wrath will happen during a Northern winter. Judges 9:48, Matthew 24:20

4/ Then all of the Lord’s people are gathered, all of the faithful Christian peoples from every tribe of Israel from every race, nation and language, are then ‘passed under the rod of judgement’. Ezekiel 20:35-38…’those who revolt and rebel will not enter the Land’. Deuteronomy 32:36, Isaiah 35:1-10

5/ The Lord will provide transport! Isaiah 66:20, Psalms 107:1-32, Isaiah 60:1-9

6/ All of the holy Land will be regenerated and become fertile: Ezekiel 36:8-11, Isaiah 35:1-2, Isaiah 66:12, Joel 2:21-26, Amos 9:13-15

7/ Strength and comfort to His faithful, righteous people: Isaiah 40:29-31, Jer. 31:21-26, Zech. 10:12

Note: that the Lord remains ‘enthroned in heaven’. The glorious Return comes later. The Lord's true Christian people, from every tribe, [of Israel] every nation, [of the world] every language, [ethnic group] will gather in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9.

WE Christians will build the Temple, Zechariah 6:15.

WE will elect our own leaders, Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11.

WE will greet Jesus after all that is prophesied takes place, with the shout: Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord!

Was there a point in posting these verses? Not sure what you think you see here that relates to the topic or issues discussed.

 

[Keraz]

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

So; have the Jews accepted their Deliverer? We are plainly told they will never accept Jesus, other than a small remnant. Isaiah 6:11-13, & 22:14, Matthew 8:12, Romans 9:27
Individual faithful Christians ARE the Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16, The Overcomers for Him, as in each of the Seven Churchs of Revelation.

Was there a point in posting these verses? Not sure what you think you see here that relates to the topic or issues discussed.

What I posted is the truth of what God has planned for His faithful people. It is not and can never be a removal from the earth.
I realize that to people who believe in other scenarios, these truths make no sense, as God has made it very difficult to change beliefs. Your reply perfectly shows the inability to understand Prophecy of those who have chosen false teachings and fables.
But at least you have read what is actually Prophesied and when it happens, you will know it is all just as the Lord has planned it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you did I guess it wasn't very memorable, but thanks I guess.

It's not memorable to you only because you make no effort to remember what people believe. The only thing you make any attempt to remember is that some people believe we will be caught up in the air and then immediately come back down to the earth. You are clueless about anything else that others believe.

No one knows when the Rapture will be and that starts the day of the Lord.

What did Peter describe as happening when the day of the Lord arrives? The burning up of the heavens and the earth, right?

In that day, specifically after the 1000 year rule of Jesus in that day, the earth is burned and recreated along with the heavens.

LOL. What? You are butchering the passage. Twisting it to fit your view. It does not indicate that the earth is burned a thousand years after the day of the Lord arrives. Not at all. It says it will come as a thief in the night. Do you have any idea what that means? It means that the fiery destruction accompanying the day of the Lord will come down suddenly and unexpectedly on Christ's enemies. Just like Paul wrote about in 1 Thess 5:2-3. How can that be the case if it doesn't actually come down until 1,000+ years later?

Exactly, in the appointed time after the 1000 years. It is on the itinerary.

If the fiery destruction described there in 2 Peter 3:10-12 doesn't happen until 1,000 years after Christ returns then why did Peter tell his readers this: "Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming". In your view, what Peter said here couldn't apply to anyone until 1,000+ years after Christ's return. Is that the impression that Peter is giving there, that he's only talking to people who will be alive 1,000+ years after Christ returns? No. So, you are just taking this passage completely out of context.

We sure are. But of course first we start off on this earth with Him ruling totally for 1000 years.
All very simple.

You don't read scripture carefully. That is obvious. You just skim over it and lazily draw conclusions. Read this again:

2 Peter 3:13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

What promise is Peter talking about here which results in "a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells"?

This one that was referenced earlier:

2 Peter 3:3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”

So, when you understand what promise Peter was talking about then you should see that what he was saying in verse 13 is that we are looking forward to the fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming which will result in the new heavens and new earth. That means the new heavens and new earth will appear at His second coming which will fulfill the promise of His second coming. Peter didn't say we are looking forward to some imaginary earthly thousand year kingdom in keeping with the promise of Christ's second coming, he said we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth in keeping with the promise of His second coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Have you a reason for calling this false??
Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Paul was referencing Isaiah 59:20-21 there. Has the Deliverer not already come to turn away ungodliness from Jacob? Yes, He has!

Acts 3:24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

Also, you have the wrong Israel in mind here. Paul talked about 2 different Israels.

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

The words I highlighted here describe the Israel of which all are and continue to be saved. And that is not the nation of Israel because Paul very specifically said "it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children", which means that one's nationality has no bearing on being part of the spiritual Israel of God.

Isaiah 11:11-12

Then it will happen on that day that the Lord
Will again recover the second time with His hand
The remnant of His people, who will remain,
From Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath,
And from the islands of the sea.
And He will lift up a standard for the nations
And assemble the banished ones of Israel,
And will gather the dispersed of Judah
From the four corners of the earth.

Source: 23 Bible verses about Land Permanently Restored To Israel

How do you interpret this verse that comes just before that one and would be part of "that day" referenced there?

Isaiah 11:10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.

Here is how Paul understood that verse:

Romans 15:7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. 8 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed 9 and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written: “Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing the praises of your name.” 10 Again, it says, “Rejoice, you Gentiles, with his people.” 11 And again, “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him.”
12 And again, Isaiah says, “The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; in him the Gentiles will hope.”.

Paul relates the fulfillment of that verse directly with the salvation of the Gentiles through faith in Christ. So, Isaiah 11:10-12 should be understood accordingly.

 

[dad]

So; have the Jews accepted their Deliverer?

Did you see the "shall be"? That does not mean 'already have been'
They will in the end.

We are plainly told they will never accept Jesus, other than a small remnant. Isaiah 6:11-13, & 22:14,

Both in the time of the captivity which the first verse you cite seems to refer to as well as in the tribulation in the end, only a remnant will be saved. The tenth part in not applicable to the tribulation probably. WE are told about how many willl perish at that time.

Individual faithful Christians ARE the Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16,

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Israel in the end time is not IN Jesus at all. The Jews who are in Christ are the Israel of God for sure. But not ALL the Israel that ever will be of God! There are promises specifically for Israel about the land and restoring them to it etc etc. All will be fulfilled. All Israel will be saved. They then will receive the promises. Christians were no promises land from the Euphrates to Egypt or wherever! We are promised the world and heaven! Why would I begrudge Jewish people in the end who have suffered beyond anything ever known in the world the promised land once they finally get saved in the end??

The Overcomers for Him, as in each of the Seven Churchs of Revelation.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Receiving Jesus and being born again is what overcomes. The faith He then gives us.

What I posted is the truth of what God has planned for His faithful people. It is not and can never be a removal from the earth.

We go to be where He is actually and there He prepared a place for us. We are strangers here with no continuing city and our heavenly home is new Jerusalem.

God will no more break His promises to the Jews than He will break them to believers in Christ. Our salvation is only because of the price Jesus paid, not of works. Enduring for the tribulation saints will also be for the same reason! Our overcoming is also by this faith and gift of God. In fact the faith He gives us is the victory that overcomes the world. Period.

 

[dad]

What did Peter describe as happening when the day of the Lord arrives? The burning up of the heavens and the earth, right?

Lots of things happen in that time. The stuff that happens at the end of the 1000 years included. None of that means it all happens over afternoon tea the hour Jesus steps down on earth.

LOL. What? You are butchering the passage. Twisting it to fit your view. It does not indicate that the earth is burned a thousand years after the day of the Lord arrives.

I did not post or refer to one passage, but to an event in that day of the Lord. So obviously I did not do anything to 'that passage'.

Not at all. It says it will come as a thief in the night.

As He does at the Rapture but certainly not in the return to earth which is scheduled precisely.

Do you have any idea what that means? It means that the fiery destruction accompanying the day of the Lord will come down suddenly and unexpectedly on Christ's enemies.

That depends on what "that" is? What verse are you trying to cite? If the day of the Lord starts when we are gathered together in the air, that is a sudden start if ever there was one! What is not sudden is the burning of the planet to a crisp! There is still the whole tribulation to go. Then the return of Jesus in vengeance which will involve fiery destruction of the wicked folks. Then there is the time after the thousand years when God sends fire and burns the earth and makes a new earth and heaven. You seem to conflate all this into one fast event one day.

Just like Paul wrote about in 1 Thess 5:2-3. How can that be the case if it doesn't actually come down until 1,000+ years later?

That verse says the day of the Lord comes unexpectedly. That tells us it is not the return of Jesus to the earth. The day He returns will not be unexpected at all. The people alive will know the day. Perfectly scheduled like a train. So, it must refer to something else. The only other coming we are told about of Jesus is when He comes in the air to gather His bride. That event has no schedule! That event is coming like a thief in the night. (except to believers who have an idea that the times are close) But the day and hour noone knows despite them knowing it is close.

The day is known once people are in the last seven years and see the abomination set up in the middle of that time.

If the fiery destruction described there in 2 Peter 3:10-12 doesn't happen until 1,000 years after Christ returns then why did Peter tell his readers this: "Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming".

Well, since we know that this earth is temporary and not our home, and it even will be all burned and made new one day, we should act like it! We are citizens of heaven. Simple.

In your view, what Peter said here couldn't apply to anyone until 1,000+ years after Christ's return.

Sure it could. Because we know the future of the world we should act and live like it. As opposed to living like there is nothing else etc etc

Is that the impression that Peter is giving there, that he's only talking to people who will be alive 1,000+ years after Christ returns? No. So, you are just taking this passage completely out of context.

Why would you think that was only for believers at the end of the millennium? It has been a reminder and inspiration for centuries that we are just pilgrims here passing through and this world is not our home.

2 Peter 3:13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Of course we do. That does not mean the New Jerusalem and new earth will come any faster than prophesy says they will. It means we look up. We look forward to heaven and the future and the new earth etc.

What promise is Peter talking about here which results in "a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells"?

There is only on slated. That is after the 1000 years. Peter never suggested it was coming any faster! He just reminds us to be heavenly minded and look forward to it.

This one that was referenced earlier:

2 Peter 3:3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”

That is about the end time. People will not believe that we are about the enter the tribulation and judgments and Rapture etc. They say things like ' oh they have been saying Jesus was coming for centuries' That tells us that when we see that widespread attitude as we do today, we are close to the end! It is another signpost on that railway track to the end marking where we are so to speak.

So, when you understand what promise Peter was talking about then you should see that what he was saying in verse 13 is that we are looking forward to the fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming which will result in the new heavens and new earth.

Of course we are. That does not mean we are looking forward to some absolute end and burning of this world before the time at the end of the 1000 years. It means we know it will come one day. We look forward also to the gathering together in the air with Jesus. That does not mean we claim it is coming today by 2 o'clock. We look forward to meeting Jesus. That does not mean we rented him our guest suite today.

That means the new heavens and new earth will appear at His second coming which will fulfill the promise of His second coming.

No. It doesn't say or suggest that. Nor does a new heaven and earth happen when He steps on the mount of Olives. There is a clear sequence of events.

Peter didn't say we are looking forward to some imaginary earthly thousand year kingdom in keeping with the promise of Christ's second coming, he said we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth in keeping with the promise of His second coming.

There is nothing imaginary about the 1000 year rule of Jesus. Or His coming in the air to get us or His return to earth etc etc. You just cannot hyper conflate all events into afternoon tea. That would be to not understand what you read.

 

[dad]

Paul was referencing Isaiah 59:20-21 there. Has the Deliverer not already come to turn away ungodliness from Jacob? Yes, He has!

No. Israel and the Jewish people are ungodly today. Notice?
Jesus came the first time and made a way. They have not yet taken it and accepted Him yet though so are still ungodly as the day is long.
His return to earth is the time when all Israel gets saved.

Acts 3:24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

The Jews of the time were heirs as are believing ones today.

Also, you have the wrong Israel in mind here. Paul talked about 2 different Israels.

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Right, which is why Israel today is not saved. Yet all Israel one day will be saved. That same people, Abraham's children. Once all Israel gets saved in the end they will be the children of promise. It is not that there suddenly was two Israels but that some who accepted their messiah, Jesus, were the true Israel already. The nation and people as a whole would not be saved until after the time of Jacob's trouble.

The words I highlighted here describe the Israel of which all are and continue to be saved. And that is not the nation of Israel because Paul very specifically said "it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children", which means that one's nationality has no bearing on being part of the spiritual Israel of God.

Of course it is not YET the nation of Israel. They will be saved in the end and be true Israel though!

How do you interpret this verse that comes just before that one and would be part of "that day" referenced there?

Isaiah 11:10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.

The ultimate fulfillment of that sounds like after Jesus returns.

Here is how Paul understood that verse:

Romans 15:7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. 8 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed 9 and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written: “Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing the praises of your name.” 10 Again, it says, “Rejoice, you Gentiles, with his people.” 11 And again, “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him.”
12 And again, Isaiah says, “The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; in him the Gentiles will hope.”.

Paul relates the fulfillment of that verse directly with the salvation of the Gentiles through faith in Christ. So, Isaiah 11:10-12 should be understood accordingly.

To an extent we who believe already have Christ as a banner we show to others. However, it seems to me that not all the nations rally to Jesus today!
If you look at the context of the verse in Isa you posted we see right away it is future!


Isaiah 11:8
And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isaiah 11:9
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord , as the waters cover the sea.
Isaiah 11:10

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

You do realize we are not and the people in Acts were not yet in that day?

 

[Timtofly]

That is a mouthful. Maybe it is best to stick to the confused little blob at the end where you compress major events into the same micro second event. Trying to deal with all the vents in a major prophesy chapter would be pointless as long as you are the compress and conflate binge.

Well you have not yet figured out what I even post or believe.

 

[Timtofly]

What is it you think needs ironing with that seal exactly?

You keep saying everything is over at the 6th Seal. You are wrong.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Lots of things happen in that time. The stuff that happens at the end of the 1000 years included. None of that means it all happens over afternoon tea the hour Jesus steps down on earth.

How exactly can the day of the Lord come like a thief in the night if the events related to it take over 1,000 years to occur? That makes no sense. It should be clear that the destruction that accompanies the day of the Lord comes down immediately upon the arrival of the day of the Lord. That's why Paul, in 1 Thess 5:2-3 indicates that it will be sudden and unexpected and that "they will not escape" it.

Turning the day of the Lord into a 1,000+ year event does not line up with the fact that it will come suddenly and will come unexpectedly like a thief in the night.

I did not post or refer to one passage, but to an event in that day of the Lord. So obviously I did not do anything to 'that passage'.

Your view does not line up with what it says in 2 Peter 3:10-13. It's as simple as that.

As He does at the Rapture but certainly not in the return to earth which is scheduled precisely.

What are you talking about? Do you believe the following is talking about His return?

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

This is clearly talking about His return and it indicates that no one knows the day or hour it will happen and no one will know until it actually happens. So, what is this nonsense about it being "scheduled precisely"?

That depends on what "that" is? What verse are you trying to cite?

I specifically mentioned fiery destruction on the day of the Lord and you don't know what passage I'm talking about? Are you for real? That doesn't make you immediately think of 2 Peter 3:10-13?

If the day of the Lord starts when we are gathered together in the air, that is a sudden start if ever there was one! What is not sudden is the burning of the planet to a crisp!

How do you come to that conclusion in light of what Paul wrote here:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

You are just blatantly contradicting scripture. Do you have no conscience? Paul very clearly indicated that the destruction accompanying the day of the Lord, which we know occurs by way of fire according to Peter, will be sudden. Yet, here you are trying to say that it won't be sudden? Do you have any reverence for scripture at all? Why are you so comfortable with blatantly contradicting it?

There is still the whole tribulation to go. Then the return of Jesus in vengeance which will involve fiery destruction of the wicked folks. Then there is the time after the thousand years when God sends fire and burns the earth and makes a new earth and heaven. You seem to conflate all this into one fast event one day.

Because that is what scripture does, but you ignore that. You say the destruction accompanying the day of the Lord is not sudden despite the fact that Paul very specifically says it will be sudden. You just believe whatever you want to believe instead of accepting what Paul and Peter and Jesus Himself taught about the scope and the suddenness of the destruction that will occur when Jesus returns on the day of the Lord.

That verse says the day of the Lord comes unexpectedly. That tells us it is not the return of Jesus to the earth. The day He returns will not be unexpected at all.

Where are you getting that nonsense from? Again, is the following not talking about His return?

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

The people alive will know the day. Perfectly scheduled like a train. So, it must refer to something else.

That is not taught in scripture anywhere. You are making things up. No one knows the day or hour. Please stop making things up and just accept what scripture actually teaches. I can't take any more of this nonsense right now, so maybe I'll read the rest of your post later.

 

[Timtofly]

Your statement was not supported. It is not an explanation but a dogmatic pronouncement. It has about as much weigh as saying woof woof.

You don't think all will be dead at Armageddon, but crawl off the field to procreate more of Adam's dead flesh?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Paul addressed the Pretribulation Rapture teachers in 2Th 2:1-5. When someone told the Thessalonians the rapture was at hand or could happen at any moment, the Thessalonians became confused about what Paul taught them. The fellow who said this was a Pretribulation Rapture teacher because when he said the rapture could happen at any moment the Antichrist had not yet emerged on the scene. In other words, he was teaching the rapture occurs before the Antichrist rises to power. In order for the Thessalonians to become confused about what Paul taught them they must have esteemed the Pretribulation Rapture teacher as Pastors are esteemed by believers today; otherwise the believers would not have taken him seriously. When Paul heard about this he wrote the letter recorded in 2Th. 2:1-5 and told the Thessalonians not to listen to the Pretribulation Rapture teacher because the rapture or our gathering to the Lord does not occur until after the the falling away and after the Antichrist seats himself in Jerusalem displaying himself as God. The scriptures tell us the Antichrist doesn’t seat himself in Jerusalem until 3 1/2 years after he emerges on the scene.

2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

The Thessalonians were taught that the rapture already happened and they missed it. NOt that it could happen at any time.

And it is not even involved with the rapture but the tribulation. the Day of Christ as John revealed occurs in the opening of the sixth seal.

Paul showed that the Tribulation is a period of wrath (as did Jesus, and John). And in his first letter he told us God will deliver us from that wrath to come.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. Israel and the Jewish people are ungodly today. Notice?
Jesus came the first time and made a way. They have not yet taken it and accepted Him yet though so are still ungodly as the day is long.
His return to earth is the time when all Israel gets saved.

No, He hasn't come yet to turn them away from their ungodliness?! Yes, He most certainly has! You are blatantly contradicting this passage:

Acts 3:24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.

What more does Jesus need to do in order to turn them from their wicked ways than to die for their sins? Nothing! He already came and got the job done. How can you not see that? How they respond does not determine whether or not He did what was prophesied that He would do. He did it long ago already.

Also, you are acting as if no Jews have ever been saved or are saved today, but that is false. There were 3,000 of them saved on the day of Pentecost alone and Jews have been getting saved ever since. You have the false idea that they all have to be saved in order for the prophecy to come true, but that is not the case. The Israel that Paul referenced is not the nation of Israel, but rather is the spiritual Israel he talked about in Romans 9:6-8 which refers to those who are the children of God and has nothing to do with one's nationality. Who are the children of God? Those who believe in Christ. And everyone who believes in Christ is saved and everyone who does in the future will be saved. That is what Paul was talking about.

 

[jamesdalbright]

The Thessalonians were taught that the rapture already happened and they missed it. NOt that it could happen at any time.

And it is not even involved with the rapture but the tribulation. the Day of Christ as John revealed occurs in the opening of the sixth seal.

Paul showed that the Tribulation is a period of wrath (as did Jesus, and John). And in his first letter he told us God will deliver us from that wrath to come.

2th 2:1-2 does not indicate that they thought they missed it, but rather it indicates that the pretriber was saying it could happen at any moment. 2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. The fact Paul was revered and that they knew He was still around confirms that they did not think all of them missed being caught up alive. The pretriber simply caused them to become confused about what Paul had taught them. The idea that the rapture could occur and no one knows that it happened came out of the pretriber camp. The parable of the virgins makes it clear that when the resurrection is about to take place the unsaved will realize they need to be saved and ask the saved to help them get saved, to which the saved will say you have to believe on your own like we did. And while they are trying to get saved the resurrection will take place. It is not going to be like the pretribers say it will be.

 

[dad]

Well you have not yet figured out what I even post or believe.

Do clue us in then

 

[dad]

You keep saying everything is over at the 6th Seal. You are wrong.

I actually never even mentioned that seal except to try and address it because you brought it up. As for me saying everything is over then, please try to be honest.

 

[Timtofly]

What more does Jesus need to do in order to turn them from their wicked ways than to die for their sins? Nothing! He already came and got the job done. How can you not see that? How they respond does not determine whether or not He did what was prophesied that He would do. He did it long ago already.

Change all those in Adam's dead corruptible flesh, out of that death and into life with a permanent incorruptible physical body.

That was put on hold until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

 

[Timtofly]

I actually never even mentioned that seal except to try and address it because you brought it up. As for me saying everything is over then, please try to be honest.

Your words:

I think you said that the return to earth by Jesus (forget the other compresses stuff you tack on to that for now) was at the 6th seal, right? If so then the period of time of that last seven years is over. He returns immediately after that. The time of Jacob's trouble is that period of several years. They all get saved by the end of that and morurn over Him whom they pierced as for an only son and repent. No more trouble! That was all He was waiting for. They will say Blessed is He than comes in the name of the Lord when they see Him.

Trying to figure out why you said that period of 7 years is over at the 6th Seal. You asked a question, then answered saying it was over.

 

[dad]

How exactly can the day of the Lord come like a thief in the night if the events related to it take over 1,000 years to occur?

Easy. It starts I think when we are raised in the air to meet Him. There are many events after this.

That makes no sense. It should be clear that the destruction that accompanies the day of the Lord comes down immediately upon the arrival of the day of the Lord. That's why Paul, in 1 Thess 5:2-3 indicates that it will be sudden and unexpected and that "they will not escape" it.

The start is sudden. The duration is not mentioned. When people are stuck in that last period there is no escaping. Only getting saved of course.

Turning the day of the Lord into a 1,000+ year event does not line up with the fact that it will come suddenly and will come unexpectedly like a thief in the night.

How or how fast it comes does not address how long it lasts.

Your view does not line up with what it says in 2 Peter 3:10-13. It's as simple as that.

Wrong. Nip and tuck fit.

What are you talking about? Do you believe the following is talking about His return?

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

That is after the 1000 years.

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

The Rapture coming

38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

That maybe could be either but seems to refer to the return to earth of Christ.

This is clearly talking about His return and it indicates that no one knows the day or hour it will happen and no one will know until it actually happens. So, what is this nonsense about it being "scheduled precisely"?

No, we know the day for the return! Not for the coming to take us up to be with Him in the air.

I specifically mentioned fiery destruction on the day of the Lord and you don't know what passage I'm talking about? Are you for real? That doesn't make you immediately think of 2 Peter 3:10-13?

So that day starts with the Rapture and ends after the 1000 years when the old earth is made new and burned.

How do you come to that conclusion in light of what Paul wrote here:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

The tribulation is compared to labor pains. They will not escape. It comes suddenly, because as soon as we are raised in the air in an instant, it is here! In that period, people will be talking safety and peace, but that is not what they will see.

You are just blatantly contradicting scripture. Do you have no conscience? Paul very clearly indicated that the destruction accompanying the day of the Lord, which we know occurs by way of fire according to Peter, will be sudden.

There is lots of destruction in the last seven years. Including the return of Jesus at the end when He destroys the wicked. There are the vials, the trumpets etc etc. This all starts suddenly and bam they are in the tribulation. The burn the world totally part only happens after the 1000 years. I don't know where you see some imagined contradiction.

Yet, here you are trying to say that it won't be sudden? Do you have any reverence for scripture at all? Why are you so comfortable with blatantly contradicting it?

That depends what you mean by "it" The period will hit suddenly. If you are trying to include the burning and new earth after the 1000 years that takes awhile.

Where are you getting that nonsense from? Again, is the following not talking about His return?

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

That might apply to the unsaved before the return to earth of Jesus. Why else would nations gather to fight in Armageddon? If they knew Jesus was coming in a few days to kill them and defeat their armies why would they go there? But believers will know! We have the countdown.

That is not taught in scripture anywhere. You are making things up. No one knows the day or hour. Please stop making things up and just accept what scripture actually teaches. I can't take any more of this nonsense right now, so maybe I'll read the rest of your post later.

Yes the time from when the abomination is set up till the end is basic stuff.