Right, but the point was that our bodies are important because they are involved in the new body. Jesus was the first to have one. His dead body was raised as the dead bodies of believers at the Rapture will be raised.
Jesus was raised up in his old body. But at the general resurrection we will *not* be a raising up in our old body.
Many will have been cremated, and the elements/ash will have been used and reused over the course of many years. Scattered elements cannot be reassembled, since as elements they can be reused by multiple bodies in their basic elemental forms.
"Raising us from the dead" will be a restoration of the person to a body, but not to the old body. It will be to a new body.
Being "raised up" is a metaphorical description of a person coming back from the dead, his spirit being restored to bodily form, even if an entirely new body. The "1st Resurrection" involves not the resuscitation of the old body, but rather, the restoration of the person to an entirely new body.
OK so if He instantly arrives on earth from heaven where does a Rapture of believers take place? It has to be in the air. Does instantly mean not so instant but He conducts the resurrection of the dead of all ages and the living believers on the way?
Don't try to work out the logistical problems. We cannot engineer a trip to heaven, and a trip back to earth by plane! or by any other form of flight that we know about. ;)
This has been your whole problem from the beginning--trying to figure out how we can be on earth one minute, and then appear on earth in the clouds the next second. It all takes place, ie our Rapture and Immortalization "all stuffed into a burrito!" ;)
The dead believers are raised up. So who is it you think comes with Jesus for the Rapture?
Jesus appears in heaven with all his saints. By "appearing in heaven" I mean that somehow this is a sign appearing in the sky--Jesus with all of his saints. I don't honestly know what this means, because the description says it is like lightning.
It may just be a bright light indicating the administration of the world has changed from Satan to Christ. Don't try to figure out the logistics, as I said--it won't be possible.
Or not. However we are told we don't go through the period or wrath, and that we have a marriage in heaven and go to His Father's house and get rewards. We also know we return with Him to the earth. There is no other fir for the Rapture but before the wrath. All other scenarios are ruled out.
We are told we won't suffer wrath, which refers to *eternal judgment.* That is, the Saved will not suffer Damnation.
The "wrath" we are saved from does not refer to a "Period of Wrath," which is what Pretribbers say the Reign of Antichrist is. The book of Revelation goes to great lengths to show that Antichrist will be judged. With all of the detail it is thought by Pretribbers that the entire Reign of Antichrist is a "period of wrath."
But it isn't. The reign of Antichrist certainly is a problem for the saints, who suffer persecution. And certainly God will not bless the earth for following the Antichrist. But for the most part, it is at the end of the reign of Antichrist that God's wrath is poured out.
This final battle, termed "Armageddon," will undoubtedly kill a lot of saints. But they will not thereby be suffering "God's wrath." Rather, they will be innocent casualties in a battle between God and Satan.
No that is defined in Dan 9, the last seven year period in world history. there were 70 weeks total. One of those weeks of years (sevens) is still to come. That week is divided in two, each part 3/12 years. The whole period is often called the tribulation and the last half is the Great Tribulation.
I used to believe in the "Gap Theory" about the 70th Week, but gave up on that many years ago. I couldn't sustain that belief against the claim that a "70 Weeks Period" is given as a *sequential period.* To break off the last Week, inserting a gap of over 2000 years, renders it *not* a "70 Weeks Period."
And so, I accepted the majority view of the Church Fathers, who saw the 70 Weeks as a period of time leading up to the death of Messiah, and to the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem following. This is the basis for the historical interpretation of the Olivet Discourse, leaving aside, of course, a future coming of Christ's Kingdom.
This was not Preterism, but rather, an historically-fulfilled prophecy, still allowing for an age of Gospel Testimony by the Church, replete with Christian persecution. Many OT prophecies were historically fulfilled. The Olivet Discourse description of the "Abomination of Desolation" was no different. It meant that Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem and destroyed the temple, leading to an age-long period of "Great Tribulation" for the Jewish People, who are still awaiting their promised final deliverance.
Yes it does. That does not include the other events you try to stuff into it like a burrito.
I like burritos! ;)
No verse says that and other verse say we are not here for the wrath. They also say we go to be with Jesus and there is a marriage supper in heaven etc. They also say saints return with Him. He comes with saints when He returns to earth. He comes for the saints at the Rapture.
No, nothing says the Marriage Supper is in heaven. That's only where the invitation is announced.
The Marriage takes place when we are united with Christ in heaven, in less than a second. But the celebration follows on earth, and lasts as long as any supper or celebration should last when people inherit a kingdom.
Yes of course we fly. Jesus rose up in the air. We will be like Him. He flies us up to the air to get our new bodies and then we can fly ourselves and we all fly to heaven. You have something against flying? Angels fly. We will too
Sorry, but you seemed to be mocking "flying." We fly using planes. Our arms do not have wings. If you think our new bodies will have wings, then you certainly don't believe our old bodies will be reassembled?
I certainly believe we can fly--my father was in the Civil Air Patrol. But it will not be without wings. ;)
It is over and done by the time we return to this planet. Our new home will be up there in new Jerusalem. We will be visitors when on earth.
That may be reality during the Millennium. The New Jerusalem may remain in heaven, and we may stay there, as well, until the Millennial Period is over.
What I do know is that we appear in the clouds with Jesus when he returns. In some sense we will "return as he left," indicating our revelation in the clouds will simultaneously be a landing on the earth. I admit--I don't understand it--I can't figure out the details. Our actual landing on the earth may be more of a "spiritual thing." Our celebration of the Marriage Supper may be more of an invisible thing, unseen by those who remain mortal during the Millennium. This may be a trans-dimensional event--I don't have a clue!
OK so you allow for a marriage supper that lasts for a while. OK. But it starts in the same microsecond as the Rapture and the return of Jesus according to you. At the ame time ans place more or less as the birds are eating the super smelly dead bodies filling the land! We were in a big hurry to get here in a flash so we could enjoy that apparently in your scheme of things
Yes, we return with glorified bodies and somehow experience a celebration of our eternal inheritance on earth. At the same time birds will gorge themselves on the corpses of those killed in the Battle of Armageddon. What takes place among mortals will not affect those who have new glorified bodies. It will be, more or less, a celebration of victory, rather than a horrified look at bodies being eaten.
The 1290 days is in the end.
Again, my own view is that Dan 12 is a kind of summary of the book, referring to two major events already mentioned in the book. They were of particular import because Israel's future would hang in the balance with these two still-future events.
The 1st event is mentioned in 12.7, the 3.5 years of Antichrist's reign. The 2nd event is mentioned after that, with the 1290 days and 1335 days. This was the reign of Antiochus 4.
Both events were still to come up in Israel's historical calendar. They are separate events, even though they are similar in being roughly 3.5 years.
Just giving you my take on it. I've studied this for many years. This is just food for thought (not burritos, necessarily). ;)
conception of prophetic times and events.
