Perseverance : of the Saints

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Ritajanice

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yes,

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 3:13-14)

Notice, even Paul by this time in his life had made all his ministry journeys, and was imprisoned in Rome when he wrote this, said and understood that he was still pressing on toward that goal, and had not yet attained that status yet.... In Ephesians he calls himself the "least of the saints." see link below for order Paul's Epistles written in....

www.biblegateway.com





Could say the same for you.... Your presupposition is your Protestant Dogma that all believers are saints. You see this in the text because of your presupposition, Or what I prefer calling them is assumptions.... It is really hard to see all of our own assumptions with which we approach a text because our upbringing is such that it cannot distinguish between indoctrination and sound doctrine.... We all carry the baggage of indoctrination.

You Proved to me that you are wholly subscribed to the Protestant Dogma that is all. You merely reinforced that Dogma instead of learning from the Spirit.... or being teachable.

Again, that is your Dogma reinforcing itself in you..... I don't think you are ready to hear what God has given me to say, So I will refrain from commenting to you since it will not be fruitful.

God Bless.
The higher calling is a Born Again....they have been baptised in the Spirit.

You know that right?

The Holy Spirit is Alive in the spirit of a Born Again....they received the Living spiritual birth from God....Spirit gives birth to spirit?
 
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CadyandZoe

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David, asserting your beliefs doesn't make them true.

Paul didn't speak about a "higher" calling as your translation has it. Rather, he spoke about the "upward calling" associated with those seeking justification through faith in Jesus Christ, who has ascended to sit at the Father's right hand.

Collossians 3:1-3
Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.


During Paul's ministry, he found himself in opposition to his kinsmen and the Jewish leaders concerning the means and method of attaining justification from God. In the third chapter of Philippians, this conflict is evident. Paul warns his readers against what he calls, "the false circumcision", who glory in their flesh and their own accomplishments with respect "to the righteousness which is in the Law."

The main concern is whether a person can attain God's approval through the Jewish praxis or if there is another way to find justification from God. Furthermore, if there is another means, then is it possible for both Jews and Gentiles to achieve justification through Jesus Christ?

For our discussion, we are answering whether Paul is unique in his perspective concerning the "upward calling" or if he includes his readers in the same group. Earlier in chapter 3, we see that not only does Paul keep his focus on the "upward" calling, he expects his readers to follow his example.

Philippians 3:2-4
Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more . . .

As Paul begins his closing remarks, he uses himself as a typical example for his readers to follow. He includes his readers when he asserts that "we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh. To repeat for emphasis, he concisely summarizes who are the true circumcision:

  1. they worship in the Spirit of God
  2. glory in Christ Jesus,
  3. and put no confidence in the flesh.
  4. his readers are included with Paul

Could say the same for you.... Your presupposition is your Protestant Dogma that all believers are saints.
I've made sure to prove my supposition. Unfortunately, we haven't yet seen your proof. All you have is ad hominem attacks. And the more you talk about "protestant dogma" and "indoctrination" the more I regret changing my mind about your commitment to Catholic Dogma. The evidence is stacking up. You seem to be a Catholic apologist and I am also wondering about your alleged study of the scriptures.
 

CadyandZoe

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You can’t get any higher calling...than a Born Again.
Yes, we have been fleshing this out in other threads lately. We have seen Paul's teaching concerning those who will receive life in the age to come. One of the markers he gives to identify those who are going to receive eternal life is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Paul refers to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as "sanctification by the Holy Spirit."

In our latest passage Paul talks about true circumcision, which he describes as those, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh . . ." (Philippians 3:3) Even here Paul highlights the role of the Spirit. Elsewhere, as I mentioned above, Paul refers to the indwelling as our being "sanctified by the Spirit."

Romans 15:16
to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

According to Paul, Gentile believers are an acceptable offering when "sanctified by the Holy Spirit."

1 Corinthians 6:11
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Here Paul talks about being "washed," describing it as being "sanctified." The sanctified are those justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

Hebrews 2:11
For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

According to Paul, God the Father is the one who sanctifies and as we have seen elsewhere, sanctification is the result of the true circumcision, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Paul understands that God chooses whom to save through the sanctification of the Spirit.

Why am I focused on the terms sanctify and sanctification? Before I answer, let me point out that these terms come from the Latin word "sanctus", which literally means "holy". In our Bibles, the book of Revelation says, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.” This passage has been put to music and is known as "The Sanctus." **

Upon examining the terms "sanctified" and "sanctification," it is possible to recognize the Latin word "Sanctus," from which the English term "saint" is derived. A saint is an individual who has been sanctified, or made holy, by the Father through the presence of the Holy Spirit. Paul does not divide the church into "the saints" and "the faithful" as David suggests. The true circumcision are ALL those who have been sanctifed (made holy) by the Holy Spirit.
_______________________________
** The Sanctus is a hymn of praise to God that is sung or said in the Mass and other Christian liturgies. It is based on the words of the prophet Isaiah (6:3) and the psalmist (118:26), and it expresses the joy and gratitude of the faithful who join with the angels in worshiping God. The Sanctus consists of two parts: the first part is “Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God of hosts. Heaven and earth are full of your glory.” The second part is “Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the highest.” The Sanctus is one of the oldest parts of the liturgy, and it is found in almost every rite of the Christian tradition
 
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David H.

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You can’t get any higher calling...than a Born Again.
Not true, There is the Earnest of the Spirit which we all get when we are Born again and there is the fulness of the Spirit. An earnest is a down payment, From that comes our unction, the fulness is the Outpouring of the Spirit which occurs at Pentecost. The Apostles themselves received the earnest of the Spirit shortly after the resurrection when the resurrected Jesus Breathed on them (John 20) and then the fulness of the Spirit at Pentecost. One of the qualifications of the deacons in acts was that they were full of the Spirit... obviously there were some that were qualified and others who were not.
Show the contradiction if you can.
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. (Ephesians 3:14-19)
Who is Paul praying for? The faithful church in Ephesus, correct? asking that they may reach for that High calling.

Till we all come (future Tense) in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Ephesians 4:13




The higher calling is a Born Again....they have been baptised in the Spirit.

You know that right?

The Holy Spirit is Alive in the spirit of a Born Again....they received the Living spiritual birth from God....Spirit gives birth to spirit?
Earnest of the Spirit vs. the fulness of the Spirit Do you not know this? perhaps your preachers have failed you?
His catholic teachings will not allow him to.. He has to just follow the party line
ad hominem see below.
I've made sure to prove my supposition. Unfortunately, we haven't yet seen your proof. All you have is ad hominem attacks. And the more you talk about "protestant dogma" and "indoctrination" the more I regret changing my mind about your commitment to Catholic Dogma. The evidence is stacking up. You seem to be a Catholic apologist and I am also wondering about your alleged study of the scriptures.
All I have faced is ad hominem attacks from you and others just like above calling me a catholic again.... I Clarified that early on here and will do so again... I was Born a Lutheran and grew up a Baptist, and consider myself a Baptist to this day because of their proper teaching on the Baptism as coming after salvation. As a matter of fact most of the Catholics here on this site have blocked me because I have said they are the harlot of Revelation 17, and as is unfortunately true here too is that Protestantism are the daughters of that harlot too. My views now are more nondenominational than anything else now. I have tried to weed through the teachings of men and the Truth of Scripture to arrive at the truth, which takes what I call Pauline ignorance (Socratic ignorance from a Christian perspective) "To Know nothing save Christ and Him Crucified" (Sure you know the verse).

It is kind of funny how the fundy gang up when someone presents a teaching they don't agree on.... I left here for some time because of this.... Most here do not have a desire or love of the Truth instead they want to remain secure in their ignorance. Sad to say, but such is the state of much of the church today, stuck in the past suckling on milk instead of digesting meat and herein is the problem with Forums.... I Can't even get to defending my positions because i am continually being mislabeled as this heretic or that one.

For the record, if any of you wants to test the Spirit in me, I confess that Jesus is the LORD, and that he is God incarnate fully God, and fully man.
 

David H.

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A protestant is a person who protests the catholic church, hence the name (according to catholics)

don't tell me your not catholic. You are orthodox or catholic one..
A Catholic will not call the mother church the harlot of Revelation 17....
 

Ritajanice

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Not true, There is the Earnest of the Spirit which we all get when we are Born again and there is the fulness of the Spirit. An earnest is a down payment, From that comes our unction, the fulness is the Outpouring of the Spirit which occurs at Pentecost. The Apostles themselves received the earnest of the Spirit shortly after the resurrection when the resurrected Jesus Breathed on them (John 20) and then the fulness of the Spirit at Pentecost. One of the qualifications of the deacons in acts was that they were full of the Spirit... obviously there were some that were qualified and others who were not.

For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. (Ephesians 3:14-19)
Who is Paul praying for? The faithful church in Ephesus, correct? asking that they may reach for that High calling.

Till we all come (future Tense) in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Ephesians 4:13





Earnest of the Spirit vs. the fulness of the Spirit Do you not know this? perhaps your preachers have failed you?

ad hominem see below.

All I have faced is ad hominem attacks from you and others just like above calling me a catholic again.... I Clarified that early on here and will do so again... I was Born a Lutheran and grew up a Baptist, and consider myself a Baptist to this day because of their proper teaching on the Baptism as coming after salvation. As a matter of fact most of the Catholics here on this site have blocked me because I have said they are the harlot of Revelation 17, and as is unfortunately true here too is that Protestantism are the daughters of that harlot too. My views now are more nondenominational than anything else now. I have tried to weed through the teachings of men and the Truth of Scripture to arrive at the truth, which takes what I call Pauline ignorance (Socratic ignorance from a Christian perspective) "To Know nothing save Christ and Him Crucified" (Sure you know the verse).

It is kind of funny how the fundy gang up when someone presents a teaching they don't agree on.... I left here for some time because of this.... Most here do not have a desire or love of the Truth instead they want to remain secure in their ignorance. Sad to say, but such is the state of much of the church today, stuck in the past suckling on milk instead of digesting meat and herein is the problem with Forums.... I Can't even get to defending my positions because i am continually being mislabeled as this heretic or that one.

For the record, if any of you wants to test the Spirit in me, I confess that Jesus is the LORD, and that he is God incarnate fully God, and fully man.
A Born Again.....has been given a measure of faith by God.

Explain fullness of the Spirit and point to scripture please?

Hang on a minute....why do you say “preachers” have failed me?

Who is our teacher, first and foremost?

You confess that Jesus is the Lord and that he is God incarnate fully God and fully man..

Ok, that’s great........so tell me.....how would you know this?
 

David H.

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A Born Again.....has been given a measure of faith by God.

Explain fullness of the Spirit and point to scripture please?

Hang on a minute....why do you say “preachers” have failed me?

Who is our teacher, first and foremost?

You confess that Jesus is the Lord and that he is God incarnate fully God and fully man..

Ok, that’s great........so tell me.....how would you know this?
Thank You for the civil response. I Will answer your questions 1-4 The ones with Question marks above.

1 fulness of the Spirit scriptures:

Luke 4:1 for starters, Jesus goes into the wilderness full of the Holy Ghost after his Baptism and the start of His ministry. Notice full of the Holy Ghost, and led by the Holy Ghost.... He is our primary example (Christlikeness).

The second example i mentioned is the Apostles themselves....
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: (John 20:22)
This is when the apostles were born again, because the death of the testator and His resurrection must occur, Later After Jesus' forty day post resurrection visitations he told the disciples: wait in Jerusalem for the Promise of the Father, For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (Acts 1:4-5, condensed) Later he said: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:8, In acts 2 We see this promise come to be ....And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Acts 2:4).... So here we see an earnest of the Spirit (I Use that word because Paul uses it) and the fulness of the Spirit.... two different moves of the Spirit, one when the Apostles were Born again, and then the second the Baptism of the Spirit.

The third example is Stephen and the deacons in Acts 6, who were chosen based on their qualification of being full of the Holy Ghost. Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. (Acts 6:3) This sort of qualification is based on some not being qualified for this.... those who are faithful and have the earnest of the Spirit, but are not full of the Spirit. Most churches today do not even acknowledge this second move of the Spirit, Why?

2. As I said above, preachers have failed you if you do not understand this distinction above, the two moves of the Spirit, In earnest and in fulness. They keep the people suckling on their teachings instead of receiving the full unction of the Spirit to become teachers themselves. Paul and Peter Lamented this in suckling on milk in the Body of Believers they wrote to. It is this distinction that is the Basis of the distinction between the faithful and the saints. Take a read of the account of the ones chosen as deacons in Acts 6-7. Only one of them, Stephen, was chosen to make the saintly sacrifice... 1 of 7. I Encourage you or any here reading this to pray those prayers Paul prayed in Ephesians to Gain this insight.... That was a key for me personally.

3. Our ultimate teacher is the Holy Ghost. God Uses those full of the Holy Ghost to teach those of us who are still learning to walk in the Spirit. But Ultimately each of us responsible to learn to walk in the fulness of the Spirit, and in the end there will be no need for Prophets preachers apostles etc. in the church.... (Ephesians 4:11-16, Read this as a prophecy)

4.How do I know Jesus is God incarnate.... because the Holy Spirit revealed this truth to me when I was born again. This revelation is the sign of one being born again " for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 16:17). This is why this is a test of the Spirit. Paul writes; Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Corinthians 12:3)

The Overwhelming Love of God that flows through this revelation is what the Born again experience is all about.

If You want to see these truths, and be taught by the Spirit pray the prayers in Ephesians 1:17ff, and 3:14ff

God Bless, and again thank you for the civil response.
 

David H.

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Hang on a minute....why do you say “preachers” have failed me?

2. As I said above, preachers have failed you if you do not understand this distinction above, the two moves of the Spirit, In earnest and in fulness. They keep the people suckling on their teachings instead of receiving the full unction of the Spirit to become teachers themselves. Paul and Peter Lamented this in suckling on milk in the Body of Believers they wrote to. It is this distinction that is the Basis of the distinction between the faithful and the saints. Take a read of the account of the ones chosen as deacons in Acts 6-7. Only one of them, Stephen, was chosen to make the saintly sacrifice... 1 of 7. I Encourage you or any here reading this to pray those prayers Paul prayed in Ephesians to Gain this insight.... That was a key for me personally.
You might see something here perhaps....
 

Ritajanice

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You might see something here perhaps....
Before we go any further,David.

You said God gave you a prophetic dream.

You said it came from God...by what means?
 

Ritajanice

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Thank You for the civil response. I Will answer your questions 1-4 The ones with Question marks above.

1 fulness of the Spirit scriptures:

Luke 4:1 for starters, Jesus goes into the wilderness full of the Holy Ghost after his Baptism and the start of His ministry. Notice full of the Holy Ghost, and led by the Holy Ghost.... He is our primary example (Christlikeness).

The second example i mentioned is the Apostles themselves....
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: (John 20:22)
This is when the apostles were born again, because the death of the testator and His resurrection must occur, Later After Jesus' forty day post resurrection visitations he told the disciples: wait in Jerusalem for the Promise of the Father, For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (Acts 1:4-5, condensed) Later he said: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:8, In acts 2 We see this promise come to be ....And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Acts 2:4).... So here we see an earnest of the Spirit (I Use that word because Paul uses it) and the fulness of the Spirit.... two different moves of the Spirit, one when the Apostles were Born again, and then the second the Baptism of the Spirit.

The third example is Stephen and the deacons in Acts 6, who were chosen based on their qualification of being full of the Holy Ghost. Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. (Acts 6:3) This sort of qualification is based on some not being qualified for this.... those who are faithful and have the earnest of the Spirit, but are not full of the Spirit. Most churches today do not even acknowledge this second move of the Spirit, Why?

I agree...I have been to a lot of churches void of the Holy Spirit....the place is dead.and like you were Alive in Christ, because of the Holy Spirit...
2. As I said above, preachers have failed you if you do not understand this distinction above, the two moves of the Spirit, In earnest and in fulness. They keep the people suckling on their teachings instead of receiving the full unction of the Spirit to become teachers themselves. Paul and Peter Lamented this in suckling on milk in the Body of Believers they wrote to. It is this distinction that is the Basis of the distinction between the faithful and the saints. Take a read of the account of the ones chosen as deacons in Acts 6-7. Only one of them, Stephen, was chosen to make the saintly sacrifice... 1 of 7. I Encourage you or any here reading this to pray those prayers Paul prayed in Ephesians to Gain this insight.... That was a key for me personally.

3. Our ultimate teacher is the Holy Ghost. God Uses those full of the Holy Ghost to teach those of us who are still learning to walk in the Spirit. But Ultimately each of us responsible to learn to walk in the fulness of the Spirit, and in the end there will be no need for Prophets preachers apostles etc. in the church.... (Ephesians 4:11-16, Read this as a prophecy)

Excellent..Amen.
4.How do I know Jesus is God incarnate.... because the Holy Spirit revealed this truth to me when I was born again. This revelation is the sign of one being born again " for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 16:17). This is why this is a test of the Spirit. Paul writes; Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Corinthians 12:3)

Great..that’s what I wanted to hear, that the Holy Spirit revealed his truth to you...Amen.

He did the same to me, the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.

That is the only way we know that Jesus was real and that he died a terrible death for us sinners...
The Overwhelming Love of God that flows through this revelation is what the Born again experience is all about.

If You want to see these truths, and be taught by the Spirit pray the prayers in Ephesians 1:17ff, and 3:14ff

God Bless, and again thank you for the civil response.
Amen!...I had the same revelation...his Love is overwhelming...because it’s “ PURE” Love of God that was poured into our hearts.

The Holy Spirit is once again starting to move me on in more revelation of his word and it can only come via the Holy Spirit.

Isn’t it wonderful that we have his Living word ,delivered straight to our heart, when we became Born of God, via the Holy Spirit.....his Living word lives in our spirit...what an Honour and Privilege , is it not?
 
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CadyandZoe

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Not true, There is the Earnest of the Spirit which we all get when we are Born again and there is the fulness of the Spirit. An earnest is a down payment, From that comes our unction, the fulness is the Outpouring of the Spirit which occurs at Pentecost.
You are confused. The outpouring at Pentecost was promised by Jesus as recorded in Johns gospel chapter 15 through 17, where Jesus promised the apostles not to worry that he was leaving, but that the Holy Spirit would bring to their rememberance all that he said and that he, the Holy Spirit, would convict the world of sin and judgment. There is no such thing as a "fulness" of the Spirit.

Now, since the Catholics made up, innovated, and fantasized about apostolic succession, they apparently invented the succession of the Spirit. But it's not Biblical, and it was designed to maintain power.
Till we all come (future Tense) in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Ephesians 4:13
Just as I said, now your apology has turned to apostolic succession, removing all doubt that you are a Catholic apologist. Ephesians 4:3 is not talking about succession. Paul is talking about the building up of the body of Christ as if it were a construction project. The Spirit began with the foundation of the Church, which came from the original twelve and Paul. The gospel message was then disseminated through evangelists and preachers and teachers. The correlation between them is obvious. But once the foundation has been laid, there is no need for apostles.

Also, and this is very important, we are ALL being led by the Spirit. We don't need apostles today, as Catholics and Pentecostals say, because we are not being led by men, we are being led by the Holy Spirit. Paul warned us about men who would attempt to make a name for themselves in the ministry. And we see it today.
Earnest of the Spirit vs. the fulness of the Spirit Do you not know this? perhaps your preachers have failed you?
Obviously your catechism is wrong
All I have faced is ad hominem attacks from you and others just like above calling me a catholic again....
You are confused about what is meant by ad hominem: "to the man." This phrase identifies arguments that are based on attacks of the person rather than his argument. Yes, I identified you as a Catholic apologist and I am more convinced than ever that you came here pretending to be one of us. However, I never based my argument on your Catholic association. But you have based your argument on our Protestant association, telling us that we are indoctrinated and that our teachers have failed us.

In fact, all those who name the name of Christ are welcome to post on this board, including Catholics and many do post on this board. But the Catholics that continually berate other people don't last long here. Why? Because they get bored. Why do I stay? Because people, including the many lovely, and kind Catholics here are willing to engage their minds and present rational arguments from the Bible. These people are engaging and smart. And you treated them all as hicks from the sticks.
I Clarified that early on here and will do so again... I was Born a Lutheran and grew up a Baptist, and consider myself a Baptist to this day because of their proper teaching on the Baptism as coming after salvation.
Don't you get it, we don't care. Any Christian can post here. Your particular religion makes no difference. Your offence was your attempt to hide it. And don't give us your line about being a Lutheran or a Baptist. You use Catholic terms and vocabulary which hints that you are Catholic, and Baptists don't argue in favor of the "higher calling" or Apostolic succession. Every time you lie to us you loose more of your credibility. Even so, we are willing to engage your interpretation of the Scriptures while we argue back. But so far, you have demonstrated your unwillingness to consider our reasons or arguments. I suspect that you don't consider them because you have already prejudged us as hicks from the sticks. But you are wrong, we have a lot of smart people here and many are Spirit led and have good instincts. And we come from different denominations, including Catholics.

It is kind of funny how the fundy gang up when someone presents a teaching they don't agree on....
See, terms like "fundy gang" reveal a dismissive, contemptuous attitude that permeates your posts. I don't know why the other Catholics didn't accept you but I don't think it was because they were offended by the information you attempted to supply them.
For the record, if any of you wants to test the Spirit in me, I confess that Jesus is the LORD, and that he is God incarnate fully God, and fully man.
Again, I suspect that no one was offended by the information you attempted to present. The reaction you got, in my opinion, was a reaction to your attitude of contempt and haughty statements of superiority.

True students of the Bible are humble before the text and true teachers of the Bible are humble before the students. Take my advice and check your attitude at the door. Then we can explore the text together as fellow students.
 
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David H.

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You are confused. The outpouring at Pentecost was promised by Jesus as recorded in Johns gospel chapter 15 through 17, where Jesus promised the apostles not to worry that he was leaving, but that the Holy Spirit would bring to their rememberance all that he said and that he, the Holy Spirit, would convict the world of sin and judgment. There is no such thing as a "fulness" of the Spirit.

Now, since the Catholics made up, innovated, and fantasized about apostolic succession, they apparently invented the succession of the Spirit. But it's not Biblical, and it was designed to maintain power.
More false ad hominem attacks, You are now being blocked.... Grow up!
 

David H.

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This kind of reaction demonstrates that you have no rational or scriptural support for what you believe.
This kind of response shows that you do not read my posts and are truly a "child" and need to grow up in order to have an adult conversation.
 

David H.

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Before we go any further,David.

You said God gave you a prophetic dream.

You said it came from God...by what means?
When The message comes from God, there is an urgency to share, whether a prophetic Word or sharing a dream, like this. The Holy Spirit Gives utterrance, and brings peace once you share that word. I Shared that in the hopes the Spirit would speak to you through it. For me the church has lost these vital doctrines, The "Bottom steps" But some have the courage to climb that Gangplank.
I agree...I have been to a lot of churches void of the Holy Spirit....the place is dead.and like you were Alive in Christ, because of the Holy Spirit...
I See this in most churches. I Myself live in the Hotbed of Calvinism, and having visited those churches most are dead, and even the Baptists I am fond of the Spirit is no longer alive in them because they are content with complacency. If someone does have Holy Spirit revelation or a word from the LORD, they are quickly silenced and pushed aside, as many here would want to do, labelling me a catholic, or a charismatic or a Calvinist or a legalist, or what have you.... This is just an easy way to ignore a word that challenges ones own status quo. They have become unteachable, stuck in Spiritual infancy at best. (Hebrews 5:12-14)
 
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Ritajanice

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When The message comes from God, there is an urgency to share, whether a prophetic Word or sharing a dream, like this. The Holy Spirit Gives utterrance, and brings peace once you share that word. I Shared that in the hopes the Spirit would speak to you through it. For me the church has lost these vital doctrines, The "Bottom steps" But some have the courage to climb that Gangplank.

I understand this David...thank you...you must have a special anointing do you think?


I See this in most churches. I Myself live in the Hotbed of Calvinism, and having visited those churches most are dead, and even the Baptists I am fond of the Spirit is no longer alive in them because they are content with complacency. If someone does have Holy Spirit revelation or a word from the LORD, they are quickly silenced and pushed aside, as many here would want to do, labelling me a catholic, or a charismatic or a Calvinist or a legalist, or what have you.... This is just an easy way to ignore a word that challenges ones own status quo. They have become unteachable, stuck in Spiritual infancy at best. (Hebrews 5:12-14)
I so agree..Amen.
 

amigo de christo

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I understand this David...thank you...you must have a special anointing do you think?



I so agree..Amen.
THE HARLOT thrives always under another jesus . and by other jesus i dont mean just the catholic one
but the calvin one and that list is real long . The jesus of the mormonsAINT JESUS
the jesus of the jw aint JESUS
and this list can get real long too . SO before we just find common ground i wanted to remind us about that .
The final false jesus has now , in the last hour , come in under guise of love . THAT jesus is gonna unite all faiths
and all religoins and even the world. BUT IT AINT JESUS .
 
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