Perseverance : of the Saints

[Behold]

Reader,

If you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious,..... then you have entered into the Spirit of God, by BLOOD covenant, through spiritual birth.

Its is through the redemption that is found in Jesus, ,.....who Himself is Salvation....., is Eternal Life, and is THE Resurrection, that you are brought into spiritual union with God "in Christ".

See all that?
That is what it means to be born again.... .not water baptized, but born again, having become, "a new creation in Christ", "one with God". And God "Is A Spirit".

So, now having become an Heir of God, and a joint heir with Jesus, .. as a SON/Daughter of God, = the "new creation", you now become a saint,,,, = YOU have entered into the "preservation of the Saints".

What does that mean. ???????????

It means that when you are born again spiritually, you entered into spiritual union with God and Christ, forever.

It means this.., = Jesus said...."ALL that believe in me, i give unto you.... Eternal life, and you shall NEVER go to hell (perish)".

See that preservation? ?????
= That is a promise given by Jesus that means that heaven is your guaranteed home, and having received "the gift of salvation" = is the reason that GOD can never fail you.

Look at this verse given by Paul.. as it defines preservation, regarding all the born again.

1.) "God, who started salvation, (in all the born again),... will HIMSELF.....be..... FAITHFUL = to complete it"..

A.) IT = your salvation

B.) IT = Your eternal life

C.) God Himself is "faithful...to complete it".

= Welcome to : Salvation.

A.) Its a eternal GIFT.

Reader, when you gave God your faith in Christ, God instantly gave you a eternal covenant relationship with Himself that was bought and paid for with the precious BLOOD and DEATH of Jesus The Lord.

See that Blood Covenant? That is the "blood Atonement".
A.) That is the "Cross of Christ".

Have you been there?
Have you been to The Cross? ??
Reader.... If you ever went there with faith in Christ, God met you there with "the Gift of Righteousness" and "The Gift of Salvation".

If you have not gone yet, then go today... go NOW.... as "now is the accepted time (for you), NOW is day of (your) Salvation"...

Don't wait,.
Dont think.
Just GO..
God is waiting for you....

Reader,

If you are born again... then understand that this Blood Covenant you entered into with God Himself through Christ...., is GOD controlled, God maintained, and God completed.

This is GOD's Grace., this is God' eternal "gift of Salvation".... and it preserves you as GOD'S own, for exactly as long as God LIVES.

A.) That is how long your Salvation lasts, and that is why your Salvation lasts.... See, your Salvation is ETERNAL Life, "in Christ" .. "one with God".


Thank you : = Jesus.

 

[Pearl]

Reader,

If you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious,..... then you have entered into the Spirit of God, by BLOOD covenant, through spiritual birth.

Its is through the redemption that is found in Jesus, ,.....who Himself is Salvation....., is Eternal Life, and is THE Resurrection, that you are brought into spiritual union with God "in Christ".

See all that?
That is what it means to be born again.... .not water baptized, but born again, having become, "a new creation in Christ", "one with God". And God "Is A Spirit".

So, now having become an Heir of God, and a joint heir with Jesus, .. as a SON/Daughter of God, = the "new creation", you now become a saint have entered into the "preservation of the Saints".

What does that mean. ???????????

It means that when you are born again spiritually, you entered into spiritual union with God and Christ, forever.

It means this.., = Jesus said...."ALL that believe in me, i give unto you.... Eternal life, and you shall NEVER go to hell (perish)".

See that preservation? ?????
= That is a promise given by Jesus that means that heaven is your guaranteed home, and having received "the gift of salvation" = is the reason that GOD can never fail you.

Look at this verse given by Paul.. as it defines preservation, regarding all the born again.

1.) "God, who started salvation, (in all the born again),... will HIMSELF.....be..... FAITHFUL = to complete it"..

A.) IT = your salvation

B.) IT = Your eternal life

C.) God Himself is "faithful...to complete it".

= Welcome to : Salvation.

A.) Its a eternal GIFT.

Reader, when you gave God your faith in Christ, God instantly gave you a eternal covenant relationship with Himself that was bought and paid for with the precious BLOOD and DEATH of Jesus The Lord.

See that Blood Covenant? That is the "blood Atonement".
A.) That is the "Cross of Christ".

Have you been there?
Have you been to The Cross? ??
Reader.... If you ever went there with faith in Christ, God met you there with "the Gift of Righteousness" and "The Gift of Salvation".

If you have not gone yet, then go today... go NOW.... as "now is the accepted time (for you), NOW is day of (your) Salvation"...

Don't wait,.
Dont think.
Just GO..
God is waiting for you....

Reader,

If you are born again... then understand that this Blood Covenant you entered into with God Himself through Christ...., is GOD controlled, God maintained, and God completed.

This is GOD's Grace., this is God "gift of Salvation".... and it preserves you as GOD'S own, for exactly as long as God LIVES.

A.) That is how long your Salvation lasts, and that is why your Salvation lasts.... See, your Salvation is ETERNAL Life, "in Christ" .. "one with God".


Thank you : = Jesus.

Isn't it wonderful how truly re-born Christians from all over the earth, complete strangers to each other, can have the same beliefs, and are united by the Holy Spirit. We share the same Father and the same hope and know the same truths - the true truths. Whenever I have met true Christians from other fellowships there has been a recognition of kinship, there has been an instant rapport because we all have that same Spirit of adoption and recognise in each other brothers and sister in Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Reader,

If you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious,..... then you have entered into the Spirit of God, by BLOOD covenant, through spiritual birth.

Its is through the redemption that is found in Jesus, ,.....who Himself is Salvation....., is Eternal Life, and is THE Resurrection, that you are brought into spiritual union with God "in Christ".

See all that?
That is what it means to be born again.... .not water baptized, but born again, having become, "a new creation in Christ", "one with God". And God "Is A Spirit".

So, now having become an Heir of God, and a joint heir with Jesus, .. as a SON/Daughter of God, = the "new creation", you now become a saint have entered into the "preservation of the Saints".

What does that mean. ???????????

It means that when you are born again spiritually, you entered into spiritual union with God and Christ, forever.

It means this.., = Jesus said...."ALL that believe in me, i give unto you.... Eternal life, and you shall NEVER go to hell (perish)".

See that preservation? ?????
= That is a promise given by Jesus that means that heaven is your guaranteed home, and having received "the gift of salvation" = is the reason that GOD can never fail you.

Look at this verse given by Paul.. as it defines preservation, regarding all the born again.

1.) "God, who started salvation, (in all the born again),... will HIMSELF.....be..... FAITHFUL = to complete it"..

A.) IT = your salvation

B.) IT = Your eternal life

C.) God Himself is "faithful...to complete it".

= Welcome to : Salvation.

A.) Its a eternal GIFT.

Reader, when you gave God your faith in Christ, God instantly gave you a eternal covenant relationship with Himself that was bought and paid for with the precious BLOOD and DEATH of Jesus The Lord.

See that Blood Covenant? That is the "blood Atonement".
A.) That is the "Cross of Christ".

Have you been there?
Have you been to The Cross? ??
Reader.... If you ever went there with faith in Christ, God met you there with "the Gift of Righteousness" and "The Gift of Salvation".

If you have not gone yet, then go today... go NOW.... as "now is the accepted time (for you), NOW is day of (your) Salvation"...

Don't wait,.
Dont think.
Just GO..
God is waiting for you....

Reader,

If you are born again... then understand that this Blood Covenant you entered into with God Himself through Christ...., is GOD controlled, God maintained, and God completed.

This is GOD's Grace., this is God' eternal "gift of Salvation".... and it preserves you as GOD'S own, for exactly as long as God LIVES.

A.) That is how long your Salvation lasts, and that is why your Salvation lasts.... See, your Salvation is ETERNAL Life, "in Christ" .. "one with God".


Thank you : = Jesus.

Should your Op not be called preservation of the saints (we are preserved) not perseverance of the saints (we must persevere?)

just asking

otherwise, I agree with everything you said. Amen

 

[Nancy]

Should your Op not be called preservation of the saints (we are preserved) not perseverance of the saints (we must persevere?)

just asking

otherwise, I agree with everything you said. Amen

The "P" in the acronym TULIP has been morphed into "Preservation" for awhile now. Doesn't "Perseverance" sound like works for salvation? Maybe that is why it was changed?

 

[Debp]

The "P" in the acronym TULIP has been morphed into "Preservation" for awhile now. Doesn't "Perseverance" sound like works for salvation? Maybe that is why it was changed?

Maybe.

I think the perseverance of the Saints means because we are saved (born of the Spirit)....that we will then persevere to the end. It doesn't mean we are trying to persevere in order to be saved. That must be an awful way to live.... instead of having peace and resting in Christ's finished work.

 

[Ritajanice]

James 1

New International Version

​

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.

Trials and Temptations​

2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.
9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position. 10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower. 11 For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich will fade away even while they go about their business.
12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

Listening and Doing​

19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. 21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.
22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The "P" in the acronym TULIP has been morphed into "Preservation" for awhile now. Doesn't "Perseverance" sound like works for salvation? Maybe that is why it was changed?

I never really studied TULIP until I started hanging out in Christian chat rooms. I think a few months ago, I was having a discussion with a 5 point, And while I was looking at the word persevere, And hearing all these people saying we must persevere to the end. I was wondering if this is where the term came from. The argument against that, that we WILL PERSEVERE to the end, not that we have to. Or that we may, we WILL.

Then I was thinking this makes no sense. It places the onus back on use, earning our salvation by persevering, which as you say is works.

I forget how many point of each side I agreed with. But I always chose that “P” as somethign I agreed with. Well after that point. I disagree with that term now also..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Maybe.

I think the perseverance of the Saints means because we are saved (born of the Spirit)....that we will then persevere to the end. It doesn't mean we are trying to persevere in order to be saved. That must be an awful way to live.... instead of having peace and resting in Christ's finished work.

Amen,

Its all about us.. Where are we pointing To God. Who preserves us in him.

 

[Ritajanice]

If you are truly Born Again, received Christ into your life, through the rebirth, then the Holy Spirit will keep you persevering.

We are the true children of God...who have been supernaturally birthed in the Spirit.....we belong to God and not the world, we have been taken out of the world....we are in the world, but Born Again is NOT of the world....we are in the Kingdom of God.


We belong to God ,the day we are birthed/ Baptised in the Spirit....that is when we start our new Born Again life in Christ......and it is a very hard path to walk....the only way we can walk it is, we are in Christ and he in us...we rely on the Father for everything and I mean everything..

 

[Ritajanice]

If you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious,..... then you have entered into the Spirit of God, by BLOOD covenant, through spiritual birth.

Only a Born Again can persevere, why, because we persevere in the Spirit.....many a time I’ve said to the Lord....Lord I cant do this.....then he reminds me that, I can only persevere in the Spirit.

I rest in God’s knowledge.....not mans knowledge.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Only a Born Again can persevere, why, because we persevere in the Spirit.....many a time I’ve said to the Lord....Lord I cant do this.....then he reminds me that, I can only persevere in the Spirit.

I rest in God’s knowledge.....not mans knowledge.

Love this, only I would change this to only a born again will be preserved.

Saying we will persevere seems to put the onus on us.. and can confuse people

 

[Ritajanice]

Love this, only I would change this to only a born again will be preserved.

Saying we will persevere seems to put the onus on us.. and can confuse people

Yes, I understand that....for we are his True Born Again Children....

@Eternally Grateful .....
Online source.
Very simply put, part of the good news to you in the message of the gospel, as captured by this creed, is that God has promised to you to preserve you as one of His own. That means God keeps your sin covered. You remain redeemed from the power of the Devil

 

[CadyandZoe]

I never really studied TULIP until I started hanging out in Christian chat rooms. I think a few months ago, I was having a discussion with a 5 point, And while I was looking at the word persevere, And hearing all these people saying we must persevere to the end. I was wondering if this is where the term came from. The argument against that, that we WILL PERSEVERE to the end, not that we have to. Or that we may, we WILL.

Then I was thinking this makes no sense. It places the onus back on use, earning our salvation by persevering, which as you say is works.

I forget how many point of each side I agreed with. But I always chose that “P” as somethign I agreed with. Well after that point. I disagree with that term now also..

Perhaps "endurance" might be a better translation. I am reminded of Jesus' parable of the sower. He described "hearing the word" in terms of a farmer who casts seed to the ground for planting. In his analogy, the seed represents the word of God, the field represents the world, the type of ground represents the condition of the human heart, plant growth represents believing the word, and fruit represents perseverance. Only one type of soil produces plant growth resulting in a crop.

Visual summary:

Soil -->Outcome:
Road --> unbelief
Rocky --> initial belief persecution leads to fall away
Weeds --> initial belief but distractions leads to fall away
Cultivated --> initial belief leads to endurance in belief -- fruit = endurance

Significance: The parable describes the idea that unless God prepares a heart in advance, one will either fail to accept the gospel as true, recant under pressure, or fail to walk in the light of the gospel due to worry. But if God prepares the heart in advance, one will not only believe the gospel, but one will continue to believe the gospel under persecution or worry. As others have said, cultivation involves the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which Jesus called "being born again" or "born from above."

 

[CadyandZoe]

Love this, only I would change this to only a born again will be preserved.

Saying we will persevere seems to put the onus on us.. and can confuse people

Preserve is the wrong idea because it sounds like we are being frozen in amber. Instead, the concept of perseverance indicates something true about the person whom God is saving. Again, I take us back to the parable of the soils.

Three apostles, Paul, James, and Peter, emphasized the importance of enduring faith even through trials. Paul said that we glorify in our trials because the proof of our perseverance in faith is the basis of our hope. (Romans 5) Peter said that the proof of our faith is more precious than gold. (1 Peter 1) And James encouraged his readers to rejoice in trials of faith because endurance would have its perfect result (James 1)

All children of God have a desire to understand the truth about themselves. Personally, I want to know what is true about me- will I persevere until the end? Will my failures prevent me from receiving my inheritance in Christ? Will I be able to continue walking in the light of the gospel or will I fall away? Since this question was answered by three different apostles in the New Testament, it is evident that this was a crucial issue for many in the church.

The statement "You must endure or you will lose your salvation" is not what they are saying. Rather, they are saying that if your faith is put to the test and you do not fall away, then you have the evidence you need that it will always endure.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Perhaps "endurance" might be a better translation. I am reminded of Jesus' parable of the sower. He described "hearing the word" in terms of a farmer who casts seed to the ground for planting. In his analogy, the seed represents the word of God, the field represents the world, the type of ground represents the condition of the human heart, plant growth represents believing the word, and fruit represents perseverance. Only one type of soil produces plant growth resulting in a crop.

Visual summary:

Soil -->Outcome:
Road --> unbelief
Rocky --> initial belief persecution leads to fall away
Weeds --> initial belief but distractions leads to fall away
Cultivated --> initial belief leads to endurance in belief -- fruit = endurance

Significance: The parable describes the idea that unless God prepares a heart in advance, one will either fail to accept the gospel as true, recant under pressure, or fail to walk in the light of the gospel due to worry. But if God prepares the heart in advance, one will not only believe the gospel, but one will continue to believe the gospel under persecution or worry. As others have said, cultivation involves the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which Jesus called "being born again" or "born from above."

I will have to think on this

 

[Ritajanice]

For @Eternally Grateful

King James Bible
The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

​

◄ Psalm 121:7 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version The LORD will keep you from all harm— he will watch over your life; New Living Translation The LORD keeps you from all harm and watches over your life. English Standard Version The LORD will keep you from all evil; he will keep your life. Berean Standard Bible The LORD will guard you from all evil; He will preserve your soul. King James Bible The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Preserve is the wrong idea because it sounds like we are being frozen in amber.

2 Timothy 4:18

And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!
Jude 1:1
Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

Yet it is biblical. It is God who preserves us. we do not preserve our self.

We are preserved because he who began a good work will complete it

We are preserved because we are in him (have eternal life)

we are preserved because we have the seal of the spirit

Instead, the concept of perseverance indicates something true about the person whom God is saving. Again, I take us back to the parable of the soils.

The 4th story are those who are born again, it is God who supplies the blood or the lifegiving power which preserves them, or keeps them alive, and enables them to produce fruit. at least that is how I see it

Three apostles, Paul, James, and Peter, emphasized the importance of enduring faith even through trials. Paul said that we glorify in our trials because the proof of our perseverance in faith is the basis of our hope. (Romans 5) Peter said that the proof of our faith is more precious than gold. (1 Peter 1) And James encouraged his readers to rejoice in trials of faith because endurance would have its perfect result (James 1)

All children of God have a desire to understand the truth about themselves. Personally, I want to know what is true about me- will I persevere until the end? Will my failures prevent me from receiving my inheritance in Christ? Will I be able to continue walking in the light of the gospel or will I fall away? Since this question was answered by three different apostles in the New Testament, it is evident that this was a crucial issue for many in the church.

The statement "You must endure or you will lose your salvation" is not what they are saying. Rather, they are saying that if your faith is put to the test and you do not fall away, then you have the evidence you need that it will always endure.

But we do not persevere to save ourselves.

The term "P" in tulip is talking about the believer persevering, so he can not lose salvation. (which is where the term OSAS comes from)

If you are worried about your failures causing you to lose salvation. then there is another issue.

Paul is talking about our faith. and it persevering. but that is not to stay saved, that is to grow our faith. and having it persevere through trials and struggles

 

[CadyandZoe]

2 Timothy 4:18

And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!
Jude 1:1
Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

Yet it is biblical. It is God who preserves us. we do not preserve our self.

We are preserved because he who began a good work will complete it

We are preserved because we are in him (have eternal life)

we are preserved because we have the seal of the spirit

Yes, I see your overall point. And you make a good point about not preserving ourselves.

The 4th story are those who are born again, it is God who supplies the blood or the lifegiving power which preserves them, or keeps them alive, and enables them to produce fruit. at least that is how I see it

The parable emphasizes the importance of preparing the soil before planting seeds. Similarly, God prepares our hearts before we can endure in our faith. The lack of prior preparation is why some people are unable to endure. Therefore, consistent with your earlier point, we are not solely responsible for our endurance. However, according to the apostles, we do have agency in our endurance. I hope this helps clarify things.

I understand the principle of grace, which means that we cannot earn salvation, and that God saves those who confess their sins and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. However, sometimes we tend to lose our individuality and get lost in broad generalizations. Simply agreeing that God saves sinners is not enough for me. I want to know if God is saving ME. Where do I stand in this matter? What is God's plan for me specifically?

In Romans 5, Paul emphasizes the unique perspective of people who possess a certain character trait that is associated with those whom God has justified. If God has justified me, then I will not only believe in the gospel, but my faith will withstand tests of faith and the subsequent endurance will give credibility to my hope. If this is true about me, then I can rejoice in the hope of God, even though it is ultimately God who is responsible for bringing it all about.

But we do not persevere to save ourselves.

Right on. We persevere because it is the will of God that we do. But most importantly, endurance is a marker that we can see for ourselves, giving us assurance that our hope is not in vain.

 

[amigo de christo]

Just a friendly reminder to all . DONT heed calvin . Okay you may return to the thread at hand .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, I see your overall point. And you make a good point about not preserving ourselves.

thank you

The parable emphasizes the importance of preparing the soil before planting seeds. Similarly, God prepares our hearts before we can endure in our faith. The lack of prior preparation is why some people are unable to endure. Therefore, consistent with your earlier point, we are not solely responsible for our endurance. However, according to the apostles, we do have agency in our endurance. I hope this helps clarify things.

I disagree, I see the parable of explaining 4 different responses to the gospel of Christ. The seed is the gospel. where it is planted is how people react..

I understand the principle of grace, which means that we cannot earn salvation, and that God saves those who confess their sins and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. However, sometimes we tend to lose our individuality and get lost in broad generalizations. Simply agreeing that God saves sinners is not enough for me. I want to know if God is saving ME. Where do I stand in this matter? What is God's plan for me specifically?

I think we all want this