Peter and Paul's witness of Water Baptism: Were they the Same?

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user

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Jesus said in Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

[47] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

[49] And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


The following question was asked to Peter AND Paul, in regard to salvation, What shall we DO?

Let's see how Peter replied...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Paul responded to that same question, let's take a look as the scene unfolds...

Acts 16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
[28] But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
[29] Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
[32] And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
[33] And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

We find that Paul preached unto them "Jesus" and, in preaching, water baptism was preached. Now let's find out WHAT Paul had meant when he preached water baptism...

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Now let's recall what Peter had said...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter and Paul both preached that water baptism is for the remission of sin, and this is being buried with him by baptism into death.


God Bless!
 
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DPMartin

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baptism by water has always been that before Christ started preaching the Gospel just what do you think John the Baptist was doing? remission is simply the cancellation of a debt, charge, or penalty. there were many pools for baptism in Israel. John didn't use them.

also there were ways to make one's self right with the Lord God, provided by the law given through Moses. a penitent life style is continuous in this flesh.
 

Enoch111

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Peter and Paul both preached that water baptism is for the remission of sin, and this is being buried with him by baptism into death.
FALSE. It only looks that way superficially. Repentance is for the remission of sins, as Christ plainly stated. And water baptism follows. That is where the believer is metaphorically and spiritually buried with Him by baptism into death.
 

user

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FALSE. It only looks that way superficially. Repentance is for the remission of sins, as Christ plainly stated. And water baptism follows. That is where the believer is metaphorically and spiritually buried with Him by baptism into death.


Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The context of the passage is a response given to a question from guilty sinners, and makes clear this is a description of how sins are remitted.


Verse 38 is to...

1. Repent - turn from acts of sin and ask God’s forgiveness
2. Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (be dipped, immersed in water, calling on the name of Jesus Christ) for the remission of sins
3. Receive the Holy Ghost

God Bless!
 
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Enoch111

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The context of the passage is a response given to a question from guilty sinners, and makes clear this is a description of how sins are remitted.
Which would mean that even if anyone was saved by grace and could not be baptized (for whatever reasons) his or her sins would not be remitted. WHICH IS ABSURD. Here's the truth which corresponds to what Christ said:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19).
 

user

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Which would mean that even if anyone was saved by grace and could not be baptized (for whatever reasons) his or her sins would not be remitted. WHICH IS ABSURD. Here's the truth which corresponds to what Christ said:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19).


John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John used water in a literal way when he spoke of Spirit, water, and blood agreeing in the one purpose of salvation (I John 5:8), if the Spirit and blood are literal then water is literal.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

John the Baptist preached “the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins”, pointing to the time when God would remit sins at water baptism.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

God Bless!
 

charity

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Jesus said in Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

[47] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

[49] And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


The following question was asked to Peter AND Paul, in regard to salvation, What shall we DO?

Let's see how Peter replied...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Paul responded to that same question, let's take a look as the scene unfolds...

Acts 16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
[28] But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
[29] Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
[32] And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
[33] And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

We find that Paul preached unto them "Jesus" and, in preaching, water baptism was preached. Now let's find out WHAT Paul had meant when he preached water baptism...

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Now let's recall what Peter had said...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter and Paul both preached that water baptism is for the remission of sin, and this is being buried with him by baptism into death.

God Bless!

Hello @user

Your subject heading is:- 'Peter & Paul's Gospel: Were they the same?' yet your OP suggests that you are concerned only with one aspect of their witness, and that is concerning water baptism. Is this so?

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

mailmandan

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Which would mean that even if anyone was saved by grace and could not be baptized (for whatever reasons) his or her sins would not be remitted. WHICH IS ABSURD. Here's the truth which corresponds to what Christ said:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19).
Amen! In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony* :)
 

Episkopos

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There is only one kingdom of God. There is only one Holy Spirit. There is One God. So you can explain things in different ways, using different cultural approaches. But there is only one truth.
 

user

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Amen! In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony* :)


The Holy Ghost may be Before "OR" After baptism, but never before repentance...

Holy Ghost After Baptism
Acts 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:16 "(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus)."
Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Holy Ghost Before Baptism
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


At any rate, either before or after, water baptism MUST be present - as per the OP.

God Bless!
 
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user

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Hello @user

Your subject heading is:- 'Peter & Paul's Gospel: Were they the same?' yet your OP suggests that you are concerned only with one aspect of their witness, and that is concerning water baptism. Is this so?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

You are correct. I have edited the title accordingly.

Thank you.
God Bless!
 

mailmandan

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The Holy Ghost may be Before "OR" After baptism, but never before repentance...

Holy Ghost After Baptism
Acts 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:16 "(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus)."
Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Holy Ghost Before Baptism
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

At any rate, either before or after, water baptism MUST be present - as per the OP.

God Bless!
Why do you suppose there was a delay in the Samaritans receiving the Holy Spirit in Acts 8 until after Peter and John laid hands on them and do you believe this was the exception or the rule? Also, do you believe that these Gentiles in Acts 10 who believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) were still lost in their sins before they received water baptism? (Acts 10:43-47)
 

Truther

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Why do you suppose there was a delay in the Samaritans receiving the Holy Spirit in Acts 8 until after Peter and John laid hands on them and do you believe this was the exception or the rule? Also, do you believe that these Gentiles in Acts 10 who believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) were still lost in their sins before they received water baptism? (Acts 10:43-47)
I do.

Remission of sins is through water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

There is no back or side door into the body of Christ.

We are baptized into Christ through his death(water burial).

The Holy Ghost is given to lead folks into all truth, not to remit sins.

It is not given as a replacement for baptism.
 
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user

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I do.

Remission of sins is through water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

There is no back or side door into the body of Christ.

We are baptized into Christ through his death(water burial).

The Holy Ghost is given to lead folks into all truth, not to remit sins.

It is not given as a replacement for baptism.


Amen! I couldn't have said it any better myself.

God Bless!
 
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mailmandan

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I do.

Remission of sins is through water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

There is no back or side door into the body of Christ.

We are baptized into Christ through his death(water burial).

The Holy Ghost is given to lead folks into all truth, not to remit sins.

It is not given as a replacement for baptism.
False. You are not properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine. You also seem to confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism. Do you attend the church of Christ?
 

Truther

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False. You are not properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine. You also seem to confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism. Do you attend the church of Christ?
How am I confused between the 2 baptism parts?

The water part is a burial per Romans 6.

The Spirit part leads us to the burial, and/or after the burial.

Can't skip the burial, lest we eventually baptize the living(buried alive).

The Holy Ghost was never given to remit sinners' sins or vindicate their current belief system, but to lead and guide them into all truth.

And no, I don't attend the Church of Christ...I affiliate with Pentecostalism.
 

mailmandan

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How am I confused between the 2 baptism parts?

The water part is a burial per Romans 6.

The Spirit part leads us to the burial, and/or after the burial.

Can't skip the burial, lest we eventually baptize the living(buried alive).

The Holy Ghost was never given to remit sinners' sins or vindicate their current belief system, but to lead and guide them into all truth.

And no, I don't attend the Church of Christ...I affiliate with Pentecostalism.
I hope not Oneness Pentecostalism. We must not confuse the reality (Spirit baptism) with the picture of the reality (water baptism).
 

Truther

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I hope not Oneness Pentecostalism. We must not confuse the reality (Spirit baptism) with the picture of the reality (water baptism).
I was oneness for about 35 years(a teacher).

I now read there are 2 separate beings...one Divine and one human.

I teach it as such now.... the unification of God and the last Adam per Col 2:9.

I still teach Acts 2:38 as the prerequisite for salvation.

I don't teach tithes though.
 

user

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In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis


John preached “the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins” (Mark 1:4), pointing to the time when God would remit sins at water baptism...

Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38).

The NIV translates Acts 2:38 “Peter replied, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven. . . .”

The guilty sinners asked, “What shall we do?” Peter answered them by explaining what they needed to do to receive remission of sins, not by describing optional conduct. He did not mean, “Repent and be baptized because you already have received remission of sins.”


Acts 3:19 says, "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

The apostle's sense is, repent and turn unto him, and acknowledge him as the Messiah and receive his doctrines.

What are his doctrines (in context of water baptism)...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Just before Jesus ascended into heaven He commanded His disciples to go into all the world, to preach the gospel, to make disciples, and to baptize them (Matthew 28:19). He expected all believers to be baptized, and He promised salvation to those who believed and were baptized (Mark 16:16).

John the Baptist, whom God sent to prepare the way of the Lord, preached and administered baptism for the remission of sins, and was the precursor for Acts 2:38 and, of which Paul is in agreement as per the OP.


God Bless!
 
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