Peter Was Never The Rock

[Marymog]

Yes.

You twist my words. I clearly said Christ has all authority. In which case, if I am in Christ...and since you have twisted my quote of Christ's word - then, Yes, I speak for Christ - not because I have any authority of my own, but because I have authority in him.

I asked you a question to better understand what you meant. That is not twisting words, sir.

How can YOU speak for Christ but the leader of a church denomination can't speak for Christ?

When you speak for Christ and your doctrine disagrees with my doctrine or any church doctrine, who has the AUTHORITY to determine which doctrine is a heresy? Mind you I speak of any doctrine that would effect your salvation; abortion as an example. Some churches/Christians think it's not murder.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

The Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour AND Good Shepherd. Trust Him for the wisdom in understanding His words as kept by those who loved Him & His words in the KJV Bible.

Respectfully, JesusIsFaithful

Are you saying Jesus talks to you directly and interprets scripture for you?

Mary!!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Because you are anti-Church that thinks Jesus founded a direct line to God system and His founding a Church is meaningless.

The RCC would have more credibility if Peter actually had taught all those things that made up catholicism, but he did not.

Nonsense. We know we are saved, we just can't be 100% certain because Paul repeatedly says we must persevere to the end. You have your salvation ticket, you don't need to persevere.(which is not in the Bible)

You just contradicted yourself. If you know you are saved, then persevering to the end is not by doing the works of catholicism. Persevering to the end means believing you are saved that you do not need to do the works of catholicism in order to be saved nor be a member of the RCC.

There is race to be run, but it is by having confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in you, trusting Him as your Good Shepherd to help you abide in His words ( not by the words in the Catholic catechism ) in following Him. In order to be in that race, you have to be already saved by faith in Jesus Christ. You cannot run that race without Him being in you. And you do have Him in you because you are saved simply for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God had raised Him from the dead.

If I believed half the lies you do about Catholicism, I would hate her twice as much.

I have quoted from the Catholic catechism; you know the RCC is laying claim for salvation to be obtained within its membership and works within. That is not God giving more grace for the believer such as yourself that have been saved simply by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God had raised Him from the dead.

So the act of persevering is to continue to believe in Him; not just as your Saviour that you are saved, but by believing in Him in being your personal Good Shepherd that He will deliver you from evil works and preserve you unto His heavenly kingdom.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

I am not trying to get you to hate the RCC. I am hoping He will wake you up that you are to consult with Jesus Christ at that throne of grace for help in understanding His words in the KJV in seeking to be His disciple testifying of Him in seeking His glory and no other, because Jesus is the Truth.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Are you saying Jesus talks to you directly and interprets scripture for you?

Jesus helps me to understand His words, yes.

James testified to this:

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Paul testified to this;

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Peter testified to Jesus in being our Good Shepherd as that is His job.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Paul testified that Jesus will help you prove everything and expose the works of darkness to repent from.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

The apostle John testified that Jesus will teach you the truth through the Holy Spirit in you and expose the lies from people that would seduce you.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

I am not trying to be your Good Shepherd. I am just pointing you to go to Jesus as your Good Shepherd as James, Paul, Peter, and John did.

 

[Marymog]

Jesus helps me to understand His words, yes.

James testified to this:

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Paul testified to this;

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Peter testified to Jesus in being our Good Shepherd as that is His job.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Paul testified that Jesus will help you prove everything and expose the works of darkness to repent from.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

The apostle John testified that Jesus will teach you the truth through the Holy Spirit in you and expose the lies from people that would seduce you.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

I am not trying to be your Good Shepherd. I am just pointing you to go to Jesus as your Good Shepherd as James, Paul, Peter, and John did.

Jesus speaks to you directly??

Please explain. There are some Catholic Saints who have said that Jesus speaks to them directly. Are you Catholic???

How can YOU speak for Christ here on earth but the leader of the Catholic or Baptist or Lutheran Church here on earth can't speak for Christ? Why is he talking to you but not them???

Can you ask Jesus any question and he answers it???

Curious Mary!!

 

[epostle1]

The RCC would have more credibility if Peter actually had taught all those things that made up catholicism, but he did not.

History is your enemy. Everything Peter taught is in Catholic teaching. You have no concept of development. The canon of the Bible is a development. Chalcedonian Trinitarianism is a development, and it is accepted by all. The Bible uses seeds and bodies as metaphors to describe the Church. Seeds and bodies grow and expand. No doctrine has ever changed its essence, but all of them develop. It's foolish to expect the 21st century church to look exactly the same as it first did, but the essence of doctrines has never changed. All Catholic doctrines flow from the deposit of faith.

You just contradicted yourself. If you know you are saved, then persevering to the end is not by doing the works of catholicism. Persevering to the end means believing you are saved that you do not need to do the works of catholicism in order to be saved nor be a member of the RCC.

A relationship with Jesus is built in to Catholicism, even for those who are not "members".
The definition of perseverance means that they have a determined continuation in something with a steady and continued action of belief that occurs over a long period of time amongst and despite especially difficult circumstances. That seems to fit nicely with the biblical definition of the perseverance of the saints of God who after being saved must endure many trials, tests, tribulations and persecution from non-believers. They continue steadfast in their faith because their faith is not their own but in God and it is not the strength of their faith that allows them to endure but their faith is only as strong as the Object of their faith and that is Jesus Christ.

The Catholic Church teaches
Steadfastness Produces Perseverance
James 1:2-4, 12 “Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. Blessed is the man who remains steadfast (or perseveres) under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.”

There is a lot here. We not only will have to endure “trials of various kinds” but we must “count it all joy.” The one who perseveres knows that “the testing of [their] faith produces steadfastness.” When this “steadfastness [has] its full effect…you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.” None of us are perfect so when we examine the Greek word for “perfect” which is “teleios” we see that it means that our faith is “brought to its end” or “finished” which is what the word complete means in Greek “holokleros” or “complete in all parts” or “whole.” Just as metal is tested by fire and becomes stronger, so too is our faith tested and made stronger. Those who stand “the test…will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.”There is a lot here. We not only will have to endure “trials of various kinds” but we must “count it all joy.” The one who perseveres knows that “the testing of [their] faith produces steadfastness.” When this “steadfastness [has] its full effect…you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.” None of us are perfect so when we examine the Greek word for “perfect” which is “teleios” we see that it means that our faith is “brought to its end” or “finished” which is what the word complete means in Greek “holokleros” or “complete in all parts” or “whole.” Just as metal is tested by fire and becomes stronger, so too is our faith tested and made stronger. Those who stand “the test…will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.”

Perseverance in the Catechism (that you keep putting down)
in faith, 162
final perseverance and retribution, 2016
in prayer, 2728, 2742-43

The CC teaches
Romans 5:3-4 “We rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope.”
Suffering can lead to salvation :: Catholic News Agency

The CC teaches Suffering Produces Perseverance
Second Thessalonians 1:4-5 “Therefore we ourselves boast about you in the churches of God for your steadfastness and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions that you are enduring. This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering.”
Paul was so proud of the church at Thessalonica that he bragged about them to the other churches. Why? It was because of their steadfast faith under severe persecutions and afflictions. Since they were enduring, Paul called this the “evidence of the righteous judgment of God.” How is this evidence of the “righteous judgment of God?” It is evidence that they are saved and a saved person endures till the end and this is proof that they “may be considered worthy of the kingdom for which [they were] suffering” for.

There is race to be run, but it is by having confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in you, trusting Him as your Good Shepherd to help you abide in His words ( not by the words in the Catholic catechism ) in following Him. In order to be in that race, you have to be already saved by faith in Jesus Christ. You cannot run that race without Him being in you. And you do have Him in you because you are saved simply for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God had raised Him from the dead.

What's the point in running a race if you already have the prize?

I have quoted from the Catholic catechism; you know the RCC is laying claim for salvation to be obtained within its membership and works within.

You don't know what the catechism is for and you don't know how to use it. Catholics don't have a relationship with the catechism, and it's not a membership. It's a family. There is no salvation by works, that is an anti-Catholic myth.

That is not God giving more grace for the believer such as yourself that have been saved simply by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God had raised Him from the dead.

That's what the catechism says, but you can only cherry pick paragraphs out of context; a typical straw man fallacy.

So the act of persevering is to continue to believe in Him; not just as your Saviour that you are saved, but by believing in Him in being your personal Good Shepherd that He will deliver you from evil works and preserve you unto His heavenly kingdom.

See above, there are several verses on perseverance I didn't use.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

The CC has been teaching these verses for 2000 years.

I am not trying to get you to hate the RCC. I am hoping He will wake you up that you are to consult with Jesus Christ at that throne of grace for help in understanding His words in the KJV in seeking to be His disciple testifying of Him in seeking His glory and no other, because Jesus is the Truth.

How? By parroting slogans that aren't in the Bible? Where is all your anger coming from? The problem with evangelical non-denoms like you is you swallow down whole every lie ever printed against the CC and think it's the gospel truth. And what makes you think I am not His disciple? Because I am Catholic? That's blind prejudice. I think "Christians" who bear false witness need to start over.[/QUOTE]

 

[ScottA]

This has nothing to do with the Jerusalem Council, other than the fact that Peter was the boss. But if you want to go there...
His lambs and sheep included the Apostles, otherwise Jesus would have said this to all of them. He didn't. Just Peter. Jesus also prayed that Peters' faith would not fail.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus said in Aramaic, you are "Kepha" and on this "Kepha" I will build my Church. In Aramaic, "kepha" means a massive stone, and "evna" means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is "petra", that "Petros" actually means "a small rock", and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus' blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used "Kepha," not "evna." Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter. (Aramaic has no gender, Greek does, because “petra” would mean “Rockette”, a feminine noun, so “petros” is used.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the "small rock," he would have used "lithos" which means a little pebble in Greek.

Matt. 16:17 - to further demonstrate that Jesus was speaking Aramaic, Jesus says Simon "Bar-Jona." The use of "Bar-Jona" proves that Jesus was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, "Bar" means son, and "Jonah" means John or dove (Holy Spirit). See Matt. 27:46 and Mark 15:34 which give another example of Jesus speaking Aramaic as He utters in rabbinical fashion the first verse of Psalm 22 declaring that He is the Christ, the Messiah. This shows that Jesus was indeed speaking Aramaic, as the Jewish people did at that time. GREEK WAS A TRANSLATION.

Matt. 16:18 - also, in quoting "on this rock," the Scriptures use the Greek construction "tautee tee" which means on "this" rock; on "this same" rock; or on "this very" rock. "Tautee tee" is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”

Matt. 16:18-19 -
-in addition, to argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father,
- then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble,
-and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven
is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter's leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter -
-you are blessed,
-you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and
-you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom).

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut the Protestant argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.

Protestant scholars:

W.F. Albright and C.S. Mann
“[Peter] is not a name, but an appellation and a play on words. There is no evidence of Peter or Kephas as a name before Christian times….Peter as Rock will be the foundation of the future community. Jesus, not quoting the Old Testament, here uses Aramaic, not Hebrew, and so uses the only Aramaic word that would serve his purpose. In view of the background of v. 19…one must dismiss as confessional interpretation any attempt to see this rock as meaning the faith, or the messianic confession, of Peter. To deny the pre-eminent position of Peter among the disciples or in the early Christian community is a denial of the evidence…The interest in Peter’s failures and vacillations does not detract from this pre-eminence; rather, it emphasizes it. Had Peter been a lesser figure his behavior would have been of far less consequence.”
(The Anchor Bible; Matthew [Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday & Co., 1971], 195)

Albert Barnes (Nineteenth-Century Presbyterian)
"The meaning of this phrase may be thus expressed: ‘Thou, in saying that I am the Son of God, hast called me by a name expressive of my true character. I, also, have given to thee a name expressive of your character. I have called you Peter, a rock. . . . I see that you are worthy of the name and will be a distinguished support of my religion"
[Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament, 170].

John Broadus (Nineteenth-Century Calvinistic Baptist)
"As Peter means rock, the natural interpretation is that ‘upon this rock’ means upon thee. . . . It is an even more far-fetched and harsh play upon words if we understand the rock to be Christ and a very feeble and almost unmeaning play upon words if the rock is Peter’s confession"
[Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, 356].
continued...

And therein lies the problem: You and many have stumbled over this same stone for over 2000 years. For which is earned the same woe which Christ gave to those who likewise looked not to the spirit, but rather to the flesh:

“Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.”

None of this was about Peter. Do you not know that the keys to the kingdom is the Spirit?

 

[ScottA]

I asked you a question to better understand what you meant. That is not twisting words, sir.

How can YOU speak for Christ but the leader of a church denomination can't speak for Christ?

When you speak for Christ and your doctrine disagrees with my doctrine or any church doctrine, who has the AUTHORITY to determine which doctrine is a heresy? Mind you I speak of any doctrine that would effect your salvation; abortion as an example. Some churches/Christians think it's not murder.

Mary

I was not addressing you... but rather kepha31.

 

[eldios]

Rock as used in scripture was always a reference to deity. Most of the references can be found here at this link below.

BibleGateway - : God rock

Confirmation that the use of the word rock refers to Christ as Christ also refers to deity is below.

1 Corinthians 10:4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

So let us look again at what Peter had said.

Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Peter is not accredited for giving that revelation about Jesus being the Christ and thus God. It was revealed by the Father. So when Jesus said this next, He was not awarding Peter for that revelation, but testifying about that revelation from the Father.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

We can know this was not about Peter because of what had happened next.

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Peter sure did not last long in face of the power of Satan.

So Jesus was not talking about Peter being that Rock where the gates of hell would not prevail against, but on the revelation that Peter had given from the Father.

Proof that the Rock that Jesus was talking about that the gates of hell will not prevail against is here by testifying of Who holds the keys to hell and death.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

May God cause the increase.

The "Rock" in the following scriptures means the same thing as the Word of God where all created men were born. The visible flesh of man was born of Satan so all flesh will perish during this temporary generation and especially on the day of the Lord when everything on earth is destroyed.

Genesis 1
26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

God is the "rock" that all created men were born in so the words that us servants such as Jesus, Peter, Timothy, Paul and I speak come from the mind of Christ within the Word of God. The ROCK is the invisible spirit of God that cannot be seen by any created man and Christ is the knowledge that we testify to and learn what "spirit" means and how we were created.

Deuteronomy 32
4: "The Rock, his work is perfect; for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and right is he.
5: They have dealt corruptly with him, they are no longer his children because of their blemish; they are a perverse and crooked generation.
6: Do you thus requite the LORD, you foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you?

18: You were unmindful of the Rock that begot you, and you forgot the God who gave you birth.

2 Samuel 22
1: And David spoke to the LORD the words of this song on the day when the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul.
2: He said, "The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer,
3: my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge, my savior; thou savest me from violence.
4: I call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised, and I am saved from my enemies.
32: "For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

Those of you who believe in a visible God are totally deceived.

 

[Mungo]

Those of you who believe in a visible God are totally deceived.

Are you claiming that Jesus Christ was not God?

 

[Mungo]

The visible flesh of man was born of Satan so all flesh will perish during this temporary generation and especially on the day of the Lord when everything on earth is destroyed.

Please justify this statement

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Jesus speaks to you directly??

Please explain. There are some Catholic Saints who have said that Jesus speaks to them directly. Are you Catholic???

How can YOU speak for Christ here on earth but the leader of the Catholic or Baptist or Lutheran Church here on earth can't speak for Christ? Why is he talking to you but not them???

Can you ask Jesus any question and he answers it???

Curious Mary!!

The point would be regardless because Jesus can speak to you, if you read His words in the KJV, asking Him to help you understand His words and even use His words to discern good and evil by it to walk in the light with Him that you are saved and He will help you to follow Him because that is the whole point of reconciliation and that is to live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ. So believe in Him today by trusting Him for all things.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

History is your enemy. Everything Peter taught is in Catholic teaching.

No. Not everything Peter taught is in Catholic teaching. If everything Catholic taught was from Peter's teaching, then all we would really need are the epistles of Peter, and not that double speaking book of the Catholic catechism.

I dare you to find all Catholic teaching in those 2 epistles of Peter.

And you can't. So there. You can post all those long posts in denial, but I am cutting you off there by that quote.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Those of you who believe in a visible God are totally deceived.

Then go to this thread as it shall point out scripture of the God that men has seen in the Old Testament.

Jesus Before His Incarnation

 

[Mungo]

No. Not everything Peter taught is in Catholic teaching. If everything Catholic taught was from Peter's teaching, then all we would really need are the epistles of Peter, and not that double speaking book of the Catholic catechism.

I dare you to find all Catholic teaching in those 2 epistles of Peter.

And you can't. So there. You can post all those long posts in denial, but I am cutting you off there by that quote.

A classic case of Protestant twisting what Catholics say and making false claims.

Did kepha claim that everything that Catholics teach was in Peter's epistles? NO he didn't.

Did kepha claim that everything that Catholics teach was from Peter's teaching? NO he didn't

So why do make such false claims?

Now you claim that not everything that Peter taught is in Catholic teaching.
So what did Peter teach that in not in Catholic teaching?

 

[epostle1]

And therein lies the problem: You and many have stumbled over this same stone for over 2000 years. For which is earned the same woe which Christ gave to those who likewise looked not to the spirit, but rather to the flesh:

“Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.”

None of this was about Peter. Do you not know that the keys to the kingdom is the Spirit?

You're right. This verse has nothing to do with the keys in Isaiah 22:22, or Matthew 16:19, which is what I am talking about.
Revelation 1:18; Revelation 3:7; Revelation 9:1; Revelation 20:1 - Jesus' "keys" undeniably represent authority. It's the same Jesus talking about the same keys, but because you see the word "keys" in a verse taken out of context, you have to equate Peter's keys with the hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees (Luke 11:51-54). That's Bible twisting at it's worst.

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Whatever Peter binds or looses on earth is bound or loosed in heaven / when the Prime Minister to the King opens, no one shuts. This "binding and loosing" authority allows the keeper of the keys to establish "halakah," or rules of conduct for the members of the kingdom he serves.
"binds or looses on earth is bound or loosed in heaven" Earth comes before heaven, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
Lastly, can heaven bind an error?

 

[epostle1]

The "Rock" in the following scriptures means the same thing as the Word of God where all created men were born. The visible flesh of man was born of Satan so all flesh will perish during this temporary generation and especially on the day of the Lord when everything on earth is destroyed.

Genesis 1
26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

God is the "rock" that all created men were born in so the words that us servants such as Jesus, Peter, Timothy, Paul and I speak come from the mind of Christ within the Word of God. The ROCK is the invisible spirit of God that cannot be seen by any created man and Christ is the knowledge that we testify to and learn what "spirit" means and how we were created.

Deuteronomy 32
4: "The Rock, his work is perfect; for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and right is he.
5: They have dealt corruptly with him, they are no longer his children because of their blemish; they are a perverse and crooked generation.
6: Do you thus requite the LORD, you foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you?

18: You were unmindful of the Rock that begot you, and you forgot the God who gave you birth.

2 Samuel 22
1: And David spoke to the LORD the words of this song on the day when the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul.
2: He said, "The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer,
3: my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge, my savior; thou savest me from violence.
4: I call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised, and I am saved from my enemies.
32: "For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

Those of you who believe in a visible God are totally deceived.

All the words in scripture can have only one meaning? I suppose Jesus didn't change Simon bar Jonah to ROCK, He called him Harry or Fred.
********BREAKING NEWS!!!********* Catholics know "rock" is a metaphor for God!!!! Does that take away Jesus' authority to change Simon bar Jonah's name to ROCK that stuck with him throughout the Bible? Is Jesus calling him God or is He calling Peter a foundation?

 

[epostle1]

I was not addressing you... but rather kepha31.

The Pope does not speak in place of Christ, but on behalf of Christ, the same as an ambassador speaks on behalf of their country. There a few good sources that publicize the full context of his speeches, homilies, and general audiences.(they are not infallible) All secular media sources have an agenda and rarely print the truth. See what the Pope really says and decide for yourself if your view is in serious need of adjustment.
ZENIT – English – The World Seen From Rome
Papal Encyclicals Online

 

[eldios]

Are you claiming that Jesus Christ was not God?

Jesus Christ is a symbolic phrase meaning everything we created men experience comes from God. The name "Jesus" represents the visible images including our bodies and the earth. The word "Christ" represents the invisible information that came from the invisible thoughts of our Creator without the information called Satan and the beast where all the visible images and thoughts come from to form our bodies and thoughts during this temporary generation. On the day of the Lord, Satan and the beast will be deleted from the program and only information called Christ will reign forever and ever. This information will be used to form all the new images and thoughts that do not contain any "evil" in them.

 

[eldios]

Please justify this statement

Genesis 6
12: And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
13: And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

17: For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die.

2 Peter 3
1 This is now the second letter that I have written to you, beloved, and in both of them I have aroused your sincere mind by way of reminder;
2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3 First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions
4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation."
5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water,
6 through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

The ungodly men ( proud of the earth ) are only formed illusions in the created minds of men that perish during this first temporary generation. All created men will remain in the image of God as they experience the death of their flesh.

Psalm 22:
25: From thee comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
26: The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the LORD! May your hearts live for ever!
27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
28: For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
29: Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive.
30: Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation,
31: and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it.

I Timothy 4:10
10: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Titus 2:11
11: For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men,