Physician Assisted Suicide

[Mayflower]

I'm very sorry for your loss @Truth. You did what anyone else would do in your situation. My aunt Cheryl had three different types of cancer and eventually died on hospice. April 1st my family are traveling down for a week to Texas for her memorial. I am not judging anyone. Nor am trying to...

This law was unheard of in the United States until Maryland and I did start off angry and immovable on my position. But now I see the grey. I cannot change my thinking on certain things. I pray to God to reveal Truth and He shows me what I need to know. Pain/suffering/and death are all from a sinful fallen world. But Jesus Christ made a way for us all to have eternal life through His shed blood on the cross. We will get to see our loved ones again one day. And not one of them remember their suffering anymore nor will we. And topics like these that people have to decide about because of a fallen world, they won't even matter one day. I am very grateful to know one day we will be free from this. God bless you. I am sorry if I made you feel guilty. This was not my intention.

Only God is to judge on these things, but there is forgiveness for both our known and unknown sins.

 

[Nancy]

Yeh I wrote this, but Id take a different format for a song. I may just do that. If I do I will share. Thanks

Awesome, I hope you do, I would love to hear you sing this.

 

[Mayflower]

Very heartfelt @Mayflower , did you write that?? Sounds like something you would write. And, if you did...will you put music to it? I know you can sing so, make it yours!!! ♥

Bre, the last three lines were from a song I like. I can't claim that.

 

[Nancy]

Bre, the last three lines were from a song I like. I can't claim that.

Well, you could change the words around, I'm sure

 

[Soverign Grace]

Belgium has death panels where they decide when an elderly should die. Do you really want that power to grow. If doctors from the CDC can limit medicine, they can surely give it with or without consent per government orders...

I don't think anyone has tried to impose their views on others on here. It definitely is a hard subject to think about.

I don't believe in death panels - no. I believe in individual choice. Anything can be a slippery slope. Should we outlaw water because some people have drowned? It's a very delicate subject, one that requires much wisdom and forethought. You brought up a good point: if the CDC is deciding how much and who gets relief from pain, then it's a short trip to them deciding who shall live. I tried warning everyone about the government assuming too much power and how it's hurting people. I think everyone should get involved in some way to try to take power back to the people.

I don't have all the answers, but I do know that if pain ever became unbearable I would not want to exert my will over another and tell them it's God's will that they hang on until He takes them when I loved my terrier so much I didn't let her suffer. I know of two people who took their own lives and I don't think God is going to judge them for it. People are going to find a way to end their lives whether we agree with it or not. Isn't it so much more humane to allow them to leave with dignity?

I can see that you seem troubled by the topic. I thought very differently when I was a young Christian, than I do now. I went through a firestorm of medical procedures and endured a lot of pain. I was left post-surgery in pain so bad it was inhumane. It got so that I could not stand the sight or smell of a medical facility. You may have never reached that point, so it's understandable. Just know that your views will evolve as you get older.

Do you know that it was written into Obamacare to restrict medical procedures for the elderly? They are only to receive "palliative care." I don't know if this has been altered but I spoke with a hospital administrator who told me insurance was denying care to those over a specific age. I spoke to a nursing home who told me people who had paid into the system for years were being denied basic things while immigrants were getting everything paid for. This was just two people I spoke to, so I haven't looked into it further.

 

[Butterfly]

can I throw something into the mix of this dicussion ......
what about DNR , the choice of being resuscitated or not when the heart stops. If man intervenes , then where does that lay with those of you who believe God ultimately decides everything.
Would a Christian be wrong if they opted against a DNR being put in place.
Also much medications enables people to live longer, same with many operations, it prolongs life - should Christians opt out of all those things , or if a Christian chooses to opt out of them, are they in fact allowing their lives to end before it needs to - given the fact that God has enabled knowledge of the human body to be discovered.
If you have even been in a care home, hospice, or hospital you will know that morphine is increased when end of life is considered to be close- that increase speeds things up - this has gone on for years and years, it is not viewed as euthanasia - but inevitable to ease pain. However the bottom line is that it brings death quicker.
Or if an elderly person is in the hospital the doctors cease to medicate for pneumonia - this is basically choosing to bring about the end of that life - that person suffers.
So, in many respects we make life and death decisions throughout our lives that involve intervention on a human and medical level - so for those who seem to think everything is black and white , I think you will find we are all in the grey areas !!!!
Rita

 

[Mayflower]

can I throw something into the mix of this dicussion ......
what about DNR , the choice of being resuscitated or not when the heart stops. If man intervenes , then where does that lay with those of you who believe God ultimately decides everything.
Would a Christian be wrong if they opted against a DNR being put in place.
Also much medications enables people to live longer, same with many operations, it prolongs life - should Christians opt out of all those things , or if a Christian chooses to opt out of them, are they in fact allowing their lives to end before it needs to - given the fact that God has enabled knowledge of the human body to be discovered.
If you have even been in a care home, hospice, or hospital you will know that morphine is increased when end of life is considered to be close- that increase speeds things up - this has gone on for years and years, it is not viewed as euthanasia - but inevitable to ease pain. However the bottom line is that it brings death quicker.
Or if an elderly person is in the hospital the doctors cease to medicate for pneumonia - this is basically choosing to bring about the end of that life - that person suffers.
So, in many respects we make life and death decisions throughout our lives that involve intervention on a human and medical level - so for those who seem to think everything is black and white , I think you will find we are all in the grey areas !!!!
Rita

Yeh, my mom had a DNR order. I don't judge her for it. Deciding not to prolong life with machines, if it is the same thing as taking your life by medicine, I honestly don't know. If you make an easy way out, more people will take it. Many more effected. This is a hard issue. I am glad I am not a doctor.

I just hope they don't require doctors who are against it, or start having death panels.

 

[Helen]

At 74, I WISH I could go back to being only a half-century old. I'm almost 3/4 of a century old.

Well I BEAT you...and most people here , Im am at 77 now.....and wish , like you..I was a kid again at 50!!!!!!!!

 

[Helen]

can I throw something into the mix of this dicussion ......
what about DNR , the choice of being resuscitated or not when the heart stops. If man intervenes , then where does that lay with those of you who believe God ultimately decides everything.
Would a Christian be wrong if they opted against a DNR being put in place.
Also much medications enables people to live longer, same with many operations, it prolongs life - should Christians opt out of all those things , or if a Christian chooses to opt out of them, are they in fact allowing their lives to end before it needs to - given the fact that God has enabled knowledge of the human body to be discovered.
If you have even been in a care home, hospice, or hospital you will know that morphine is increased when end of life is considered to be close- that increase speeds things up - this has gone on for years and years, it is not viewed as euthanasia - but inevitable to ease pain. However the bottom line is that it brings death quicker.
Or if an elderly person is in the hospital the doctors cease to medicate for pneumonia - this is basically choosing to bring about the end of that life - that person suffers.
So, in many respects we make life and death decisions throughout our lives that involve intervention on a human and medical level - so for those who seem to think everything is black and white , I think you will find we are all in the grey areas !!!!
Rita

I have a documented DNR. Signed by my doctor.

Rita, I have see too many in my time who were "brought back"...not one was a happy thing...I mentioned earlier...one friend was so mad at them.( family)
Instead of being happy and warm...she said " Girl, now I have to live through these winters again, I am too old to go out and walk on ice now...etc etc "
the sad thing was , the family that lived close, MOVED south, back to Texas, and left her in a Home in northern BC.
PLUS, after two years she lost her mind to dementia...
If only they had let her alone the first time.

Also my daughters mother in law...told her two sons DNR...the older one overruled my daughters husband...and got them to resusertate her ( she'd had a stroke) so the medics brought her back..and she ended her days on being tube fed and unconscious most of the time... she did wake enough to say.."unplug me, let me go..I want to find you dad and be in heaven with Jesus"
The older son took four more weeks before he would let her go...how selfish is THAT!!!

I told my kids..."IF YOU KEEP ME ON A FEEDING TUBE I WILL COME BACK AND HAUNT YOU!!"

The thing is IF we need resusitating ( sp) then we do NOT know what damage has been done to the heart and brain...who wants to live with half a brain..
I hope I go out with a bang, so no one has to make any decisions. LOL

 

[Mayflower]

I have a documented DNR. Signed by my doctor.

Rita, I have see too many in my time who were "brought back"...not one was a happy thing...I mentioned earlier...one friend was so mad at them.( family)
Instead of being happy and warm...she said " Girl, now I have to live through these winters again, I am too old to go out and walk on ice now...etc etc "
the sad thing was , the family that lived close, MOVED south, back to Texas, and left her in a Home in northern BC.
PLUS, after two years she lost her mind to dementia...
If only they had let her alone the first time.

Also my daughters mother in law...told her two sons DNR...the older one overruled my daughters husband...and got them to resusertate her ( she'd had a stroke) so the medics brought her back..and she ended her days on being tube fed and unconscious most of the time... she did wake enough to say.."unplug me, let me go..I want to find you dad and be in heaven with Jesus"
The older son took four more weeks before he would let her go...how selfish is THAT!!!

I told my kids..."IF YOU KEEP ME ON A FEEDING TUBE I WILL COME BACK AND HAUNT YOU!!"

The thing is IF we need resusitating ( sp) then we do NOT know what damage has been done to the heart and brain...who wants to live with half a brain..
I hope I go out with a bang, so no one has to make any decisions. LOL

Yeh that happened with my mom. I can't say what I would have done in my sister's shoes. Probably the same. She lived for a few more weeks...then tried to rescusitate her and it didn't work.

I went to counseling today and talked to her about this and think going into those programs was one way I was trying to avoid the fact my mother did suffer so much. There was nothing I could do. Maybe physician assisted helps the families who suffer too watching their loved ones suffer. I don't know. I don't know what the greater evil would be.

 

[Mayflower]

There is no one quite like your mother. She could be a thousand miles away, but she was still there. But now she is not. If she could have had the option to kill herself, Id probably be left with the what ifs. What if she would have hung on. Would it have been worth it. But now I am left with the question what if she could have taken her life. Would she have been happier not living those ten years.

 

[Helen]

@Butterfly

Forgot to say Rita.

It doesn't matter ( here) what the person wants , (me) ...by law if any of the family members want a loved one who has stroked etc, to be kept on a feeding tube and all the bells and whistles...then 'they win' ...
If my one daughter Jane says- " Dont DNR, she doesn't want it..."or even waves my signed paper at the doctors..... but my husband and other daughter want me on life support...there is nothing Jane can do...

So here, in fact, a DNR means nothing...the family always wins, not the sick or unconscious person!
HENCE the reason I told them I would come back and haunt them if they kept me on life support!!!
It is selfish, for sentiment, not in the best interest of the parent. ( as it was with the elder son of Jane's mother in law.) He said " I can't let her go", KNOWING it was against her own wishes!! How selfish can a person be.

 

[Butterfly]

The reason I added the questions about DNR and medication was to find out how we feel as Christians about those choices , what do we believe is biblical, and why - what would your view be based on ect.
I am sure that there care many people who have been grateful for resuscitation, especially those who are younger and are able to make a recovery.
So, does age affect our decisions - so all those who are literalists - bring on the verses !!
Rita

 

[Butterfly]

Helen , if anyone resuscitated in the care home and there is a DNR in place , then the authorities get involved - we had that happen last year. X
I haven't really spoken to my children yet, or my dad , but I think I will - I am not too sure what I would want yet x

 

[Helen]

Helen , if anyone resuscitated in the care home and there is a DNR in place , then the authorities get involved - we had that happen last year. X
I haven't really spoken to my children yet, or my dad , but I think I will - I am not too sure what I would want yet x

Re your other post. Just to stir the pot.

Is a brain dead person alive? Or has the person just being kept between earth and heaven..as the mother in law was for a few MONTHS....she wasn't dead and with God...neither was she alive and "here"...she was being kept by tubes in a never-never-land of nowhere!!

 

[Butterfly]

Oooh now that's an interesting question - where is the soul of someone who is brain dead !
I will have to think about that one - be interesting to see other responses.
Also, is turning off a machine classed as murder ! ?
I hope these questions are not coming across as insensitive by the way, its just that these things are seldom discussed , or perhaps even considered until age creeps up !
Rita

 

[farouk]

Oooh now that's an interesting question - where is the soul of someone who is brain dead !
I will have to think about that one - be interesting to see other responses.
Also, is turning off a machine classed as murder ! ?
I hope these questions are not coming across as insensitive by the way, its just that these things are seldom discussed , or perhaps even considered until age creeps up !
Rita

They are not even questions that secularist ethics committees will likely address adequately in any case...

 

[Mayflower]

@Butterfly

Forgot to say Rita.

It doesn't matter ( here) what the person wants , (me) ...by law if any of the family members want a loved one who has stroked etc, to be kept on a feeding tube and all the bells and whistles...then 'they win' ...
If my one daughter Jane says- " Dont DNR, she doesn't want it..."or even waves my signed paper at the doctors..... but my husband and other daughter want me on life support...there is nothing Jane can do...

So here, in fact, a DNR means nothing...the family always wins, not the sick or unconscious person!
HENCE the reason I told them I would come back and haunt them if they kept me on life support!!!
It is selfish, for sentiment, not in the best interest of the parent. ( as it was with the elder son of Jane's mother in law.) He said " I can't let her go", KNOWING it was against her own wishes!! How selfish can a person be.

The one in Heaven doesnt have to suffer like the ones left behind. Losing a parent, imo, is harder then any physical pain. Then again Ive never had to experience the type of pain my mother did.

I would have to say if she did die sooner it may have been easier to mourn knowing she went out peacefully. But ten years... God can use you a lot in ten years. And my mom surely touched a few where she lived.

 

[Butterfly]

They are not even questions that secularist ethics committees will likely address adequately in any case...

Yes,but as Christians we have to make ethical choices , I think we need to ask such questions so that we can weigh things up x

 

[farouk]

Yes,but as Christians we have to make ethical choices , I think we need to ask such questions so that we can weigh things up x

We do need to have our thinking informed by Scripture, indeed, yes.