It sounds OK.
I didn't hear that it's NOT NECESSARY to obey God or do what He wants us to do.
Jesus left us with two rules....love God...love our neighbor as ourself.
It covers everything.
Please explain this.
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I didn't hear that it's NOT NECESSARY to obey God or do what He wants us to do.
Jesus left us with two rules....love God...love our neighbor as ourself.
It covers everything.
OK.
How about this:
EVERYTHING we do in the new way that Jesus has conformed you, IS A WORK.
Before your works meant nothing.
NOW they please God who saved you and is conforming you to His Son...the first of many.
That's right, as I understand it.
We don't need to concern ourselves over these long lists of rules, we only need to believe in Jesus and love each other, these are the two commandments we've been given.
Much love!
ScottA
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It really shouldn't take 22 pages to make your point clear and concise. But thank you!
Now... "required" is just not the best use of words here. "Required" makes it sound (to new believers especially) like we are forced to do something we would not otherwise do. That is just not right, not correct.
On the contrary, we are indeed commanded to do His commandments. But what is missing in saying that it is "required", is that we welcome it and love it and are not at all forced to do anything we don't want to. Indeed, we want to do His will, just as He has commanded, and we do.
Terms like "obedience" are a holdover from the law, which could not save anyone. Therefore, your use of similar terms, even terms such as "commandments" used by Jesus, are misunderstood and are not to be taken as "requirements." No, the New Covenant "Commandments", were not things "to do", or "to obey", but "to be." We are not to be found "obeying", but "loving." By the nature of the content, we know that what once was commanded, is no longer commanded, but expected--that "all will know that you are My disciples."
Perhaps we could work on our communication skills.
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You asked:
By required, do you mean to say that the born again person who fails to complete good works ceases to be born again?
This is why I wanted to know what you think a good work is.
How does a born again Christian FAIL at doing good works?
Everything he does should be done as unto God.
Colossians 3:17
And what do you mean by "complete"?
We never complete. All our life is service to God.
again Romans 12:1
There's a nice lady on this thread who worked herself ragged and was burned bny this experience. Now she's has gone totally on the other end of the spectrum.
We have to be happy to do the work we do....
If we're not happy...it's not God for whom we're doing it.
There's a fine line and we each should learn what it is instead of arguing that God demands NOTHING from us.
It's just living the new life. Why parse it out? Either we are walking in the Spirit, or we are walking according to the flesh. If we realize we've been walking according to the flesh, then get our eyes off of ourselves and back onto Jesus, stop thinking about what we have to do to make it, trust in what Jesus did.
And then we realize there is nothing we can add, which gives us access to everything He gives.
We enter the grace in which we stand (Romans 5) by faith in Jesus.
If we look to our works to maintain us in our salvation, then we are looking at what we can do, and we are no longer looking at what Jesus did.
When the Galatian Christians started thinking that we, that being saved, they then needed to add the works of Law, God told them they've "fallen from grace", not that they stopped being born again, that doesn't happen, rather, that they had stopped relying only on Jesus, and had begun to look to their own efforts.
And they lost the advantage of "the just shall live by faith".
Much love!
You're busy parsing my words, rather than answering my question.
When someone persists in avoiding answering a straightforward question, it always makes me wonder why, what is it that you are so reluctant to say?
Much love!
I don't concern myself with any long list.
Like I said, love covers all that.
But we can't say that God does NOT REQUIRE us to do.
He does.
Just read John. Jesus repeats this over and over.
I said there's no such thing as completes.
We just do what God wants.
We don't lose our salvation because we don't do something God wanted us to do.
Is anybody obedient ALL THE TIME?
NO!
But that doesn't mean we post on a Christian forum that it's not necessary to obey or to do...like some have said.
Yes, sanctification IS a process conducted by the Holy Spirit. BUT salvation is an at-once event. Jesus told the crowd at Zacchaeus' house that, "Today, salvation has come to this house." He DID NOT say, "Salvation will come to this house after a year or so--after it is determined that he is really a believer." God the Father KNOWS our hearts--He wasn't impressed by Ananias and Sapphira's "sacrifice". Their "good work" likely perished with them. They actually DID give part of the money to the church--but they said it was all of the money--and in doing so, they became hypocrites (like the Pharisees who loved to parade their "good works") and liars. Peter said to Ananias, "The property was yours to sell or not sell as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away."
Insisting that one must have works ("obedience") after salvation, in order to avoid condemnation, is like receiving a "free house" from one's friend, Fred, who then proceeds to tell us, "Oh, by the way, every month you will receive a bill for rent on your 'free house' and you must 'obey' that bill or I'm going to take the 'free house' back."
I'm not speaking about the works of the law.
Paul was concerned with the Jews returning to the works of the law because that's what they were used to.
But THE LAW didn't save anyone in the O.T. either.
Persons were always saved by faith.
I just hope everyone reads your second paragraph and drinks deep as to what you're saying and what it means.
Here it is:
Insisting that one must have works ("obedience") after salvation, in order to avoid condemnation, is like receiving a "free house" from one's friend, Fred, who then proceeds to tell us, "Oh, by the way, every month you will receive a bill for rent on your 'free house' and you must 'obey' that bill or I'm going to take the 'free house' back."
I'm saying good night.
OK. Thank you for your clarification! It was sounding like you meant the opposite. Saying "required" makes it sound like, well, good works are required.
Much love!
Scott...it's 22 pages and I'll continue because incorrect theology has to be corrected. I happen to be here...so I'll do it.
I believe I have very good communication skills.
Required is the PERFECT word for new believers that are hearing a lot of strange theology these days.
So you mean you only do what YOU want to do? That's what we call easy believism these days.
Jesus didn't do what was easy for Him. He asked that the cup be taken away, but that GOD'S will be done...not His.
THIS is what new Christians should be learning.
Not some watered down gospel that would be unfamiliar to those living at the time of Jesus.
People went to the lions for their beliefs, and we're afraid of the word
REQUIRED and
WORKS and
OBEDIENCE
Will Jesus find any faith when He returns?
Those with faith HEAR the word of God.
Jesus told the Apostles to go to all nations and to
TEACH THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THAT JESUS COMMANDED THEM.
What does that mean?
And as to disciples...Jesus said that we are His disciples IF we remain faithful to His teachings...WHAT TEACHINGS?
Jesus said He spoke not on His own, but the FATHER HIMSELF who sent Him gave Him commandment...what to say and what to speak. And that the things Jesus spoke he spoke as the Father told Him.
I suggest we begin to take the word of God seriously and stop playing word games.
OK.
But you only posted some of my reply and you kind of did what journalists sometimes do....it's out of context.
But yes, because we don't do every little thing asked of us, does not mean we become lost. God is a just and loving God.
Night.
If you like what he said okay. But to say faith without works is dead as, James does, is saying we MUST have works to have faith and that is not the truth.
I am not against people doing good works as directed by the Holy Spirit. But to do them to to earn points with God is just not right. For a person to do them, as James says, is for that person to try and make themselves self-righteous. The question arises are they saved by their works are by God's work on the cross. It can't be both and still be God's grace
The children of God have been set free of the condemnation of the works of law and to allude that they are condemned by not having works is placing a burden on them to do works in order to be saved.
I just will not say that to another child of God. Before God they are just like me and I can't see into their heart.
But let me also say that there are some on this forum that show their heart and it isn't very pretty.
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