Please explain this.

[justbyfaith]

See Luke 8:13 where Jesus Himself says that the person believed for a while.

Luke 8:13 is speaking of a lukewarm, nominal, or shallow faith...a faith that amounts to mental assent to the tenets of the gospel without belief trickling down to the heart.

Luke 6:47, on the other hand, is speaking of the kind of faith that is spoken of in Romans 10:10, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14, Matthew 10:22...a heart faith that is unto righteousness and enduring to the end.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yet so is the reverse true: works without faith is dead also!

Indeed, Amen.

Hebrews 6:1.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

James 2:20-21
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
(NKJ)

Okay, then how do you explain this?
He was accounted righteous before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God. Check it out in Genesis 15;4-6 below..

Genesis 15:4-6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ)

It seems that God accounted him righteous solely for his faith in His Promises, and not by anything that he did. There is nothing in Genesis 15 that mentions any works that Abraham did. Paul accurately reports this. It seems that James did not consider the account in Genesis 15. It was not until Genesis 22, many years after Isaac was born, when Abraham was well over 100 years old, that he agreed to offer Isaac.

James writes:
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Neither of those last two statements are in the Genesis 15:4-6 account.
Nowhere does the OT Scripture say that Abraham "was called God's friend" BECAUSE he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. In Isaiah 41:8 it states that God called Abraham His friend but nowhere in the context of the chapter does He say it was because Abraham offered up his son Isaac.

What James wrote, as shown above, are direct contradiction of the Gospel that Paul taught and the account given in Genesis 15:4-6. Abraham was righteous before God solely because he believed God’s promises.

The religious who advocate works can argue this until they are blue in the face but it does not change the FACTS as shown in Genesis.

In my opinion the book of James is devoid of the gospel of grace as taught by Paul.

However, it was compatible with the law of Moses. Since the word of God has to be based on truth, I find the book of James is not based on FAITH in Christ’s work on the cross but only on works of the law and is not for this age of God’s grace. The very fact that it was addressed to Jews (James 1:1) is more proof that it was only for the Jews who were under the law.

It remains to be seen that the religious will try to destroy what I have written by attacking me, personally, and it will show that they want people to believe we are under the law in this age of God’s grace. They can easily attack me but they can not say that the scriptures I have presented do not say what I have reported them to say.

Under grace a person must place their faith (belief) in God’s promise of salvation based on their belief in what He (Jesus) did on the cross where He paid for the sins of the whole world. Through the gospel of grace that was given to Paul God, Himself, paid for the sins of the world and a person has to believe it to have salvation. If they do not then they are condemned because they do not believe God.

Why is faith without works dead?

Answer: James says, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). Notice that the message of Jesus is the same as the message of James. Obedience to God is the mark of true saving faith. James uses the examples of Abraham and Rahab to illustrate the obedience that accompanies salvation.

 

[H. Richard]

If you believe that the book of James was holy Spirit inspired then you must see, and admit, that it was NOT written to the Gentiles who are under grace. It was written to the Jews only as it is written in James 1:1.

Some on this forum just will not concede that the above is true. The reason is clear. They want to keep the gospel as a blend of law (works) and grace which will not get anyone into Heaven.

The religious just rationalize (twist) that it was written to the Gentiles too.

Because I believe that the Holy Spirit did not leave out the word Gentiles some on here would say I am wrong to show the obvious truth of God's word. If a person believes James was written to the Gentile too then how many other scriptures will that person twist?

As for what I believe about it, the Holy Spirit did not leave out anything He wanted the Jews to see but He did not address it to those under grace.

Believe it or not. At this point I can care less.

 

[marks]

Some on this forum just will not concede that the above is true. The reason is clear. They want to keep the gospel as a blend of law (works) and grace which will not get anyone into Heaven.

Actually, I think James is written to the NT believer, including gentiles, though addressed to the Jews of the diaspora, just as other letters are also meant for us, though addressed to others elsewhere.

But I in no wise blend Law with Grace, as Grace complete supplants Law.

Not trying to be a monkeywrench . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

Believe it or not. At this point I can care less.

Take a breath, brother!

 

[Episkopos]

If you believe that the book of James was holy Spirit inspired then you must see, and admit, that it was NOT written to the Gentiles who are under grace. It was written to the Jews only as it is written in James 1:1.

Some on this forum just will not concede that the above is true. The reason is clear. They want to keep the gospel as a blend of law (works) and grace which will not get anyone into Heaven.

The religious just rationalize (twist) that it was written to the Gentiles too.

Because I believe that the Holy Spirit did not leave out the word Gentiles some on here would say I am wrong to show the obvious truth of God's word. If a person believes James was written to the Gentile too then how many other scriptures will that person twist?

As for what I believe about it, the Holy Spirit did not leave out anything He wanted the Jews to see but He did not address it to those under grace.

Believe it or not. At this point I can care less.

Think consistently. Never does any biblical writer write to Gentiles in any general sense. Paul never addressed a letter "to the Gentiles." Paul wrote to believers in Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia etc...but never to we modern people...never any modern cities. Can we take these letters for ourselves? It is normal that we take his words to also include all who would believe. And that includes James and the gospels. The truth is for all people in every time.

But what you are doing is just an excuse to not listen to the pure words of the Lord Jesus. You relegate His instruction to the Jews because they seem difficult...and keep only what seems easy.

You confuse works of the law (Judaism) with works of the Spirit. And create a false tension between the two that doesn't exist so much in our time.

Our problem now is with they that come teaching a Christianity without a cross (of surrender) and a grace without power (to walk as Jesus walked)....as you are doing.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Think consistently. Never does any biblical writer write to Gentiles in any general sense. Paul never addressed a letter "to the Gentiles." Paul wrote to believers in Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia etc...but never to we modern people...never any modern cities...The truth is for all people in every time.

Then why aren't you following the dietary laws of Israel? Were the believers in Corinth, Ephesus and Galatia, Gentiles or were they Jews?

But what you are doing is just an excuse to not listen to the pure words of the Lord Jesus. You relegate His instruction to the Jews because they seem difficult...and keep only what seems easy.

How easy is it to love and forgive our enemies? The early Church settled this debate for the Gentiles--long ago at the Jerusalem Council.

 

[Episkopos]

Then why aren't you following the dietary laws of Israel? Were the believers in Corinth, Ephesus and Galatia, Gentiles or were they Jews?

They were BOTH Jew and Gentile. There is no distinction in Christ. Where does Paul say...to the Gentiles that are living in Corinth??? It is to the saints and the faithful brethren. This includes all who are following Christ.

Paul always first went to the synagogue in any given city. Read your bible. If they (the Jews) refused the gospel...he went to the Gentiles. Same gospel. Actually there were many Gentiles IN the synagogue as God-fearers. They heard the same message from Paul that the Jews heard. The early church had many of these "God-fearers" in their midst. Cornelius the centurion and his household are prime examples of this trend.

You should really try reading the bible for what is written.

And you are confusing the law of Moses with the law of the Spirit as HR also does.

How easy is it to love and forgive our enemies? The early Church settled this debate for the Gentiles--long ago at the Jerusalem Council.

This had to do with following the law of Moses or not. Those who chose to remain in Judaism could do so...in order to win Jews for Christ. But Gentiles were not required to do so.

But ALL followers of Christ were to walk in the new life in the Spirit. These met together after the Sabbath on the first day of the week. They met on the common ground of Christ...the middle wall of separation having been torn down to make of the two... ONE new man.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

They were BOTH Jew and Gentile. There is no distinction in Christ. Where does Paul say...to the Gentiles that are living in Corinth??? It is to the saints and the faithful brethren. This includes all who are following Christ.

Why would Paul make the distinction when it is likely they were ALL Gentiles. Most Jews would have shuddered at the idea of living in Corinth. Even though the Romans cleaned it up to some degree, it was still a seaport town with all the usual decadence and debauchery.

Paul always first went to the synagogue in any given city. Read your bible.

You read YOURS! He was so disgusted with the reception that he got in many of the synagogues, that he said in Acts 18:6 (after the Jews in Corinth abused and insulted him) that, from that point on, he would be going to the Gentiles--and there is no record that he preached to the Jews from that point on.

If they (the Jews) refused the gospel...he went to the Gentiles. Same gospel.

The gospel is ALWAYS the same--it is the Good News of Jesus Christ. But, Paul had a different way of presenting it to the philosophers on Mars Hill.

Actually there were many Gentiles IN the synagogue as God-fearers.

There probably weren't "many" because the Jews had general distrust and dislike of Gentiles and kept mostly to themselves in the diaspora. There were Gentile proselytes in Judea but it is unlikely that there were "many" in the Gentile regions since the Jews were generally disliked by the Gentiles throughout the Roman Empire. In fact, Paul even notes that the Emperor Claudius had thrown the Jews out of Rome in Acts 18:2. Gentile believers were probably the first to be pitched out of the synagogues for professing belief in Jesus the Messiah.

You should really try reading the bible for what is written.

So should YOU!

And you are confusing the law of Moses with the law of the Spirit as HR also does.

There IS no such thing as the Law of the Spirit (although there is the "royal law" of loving ones neighbor," mentioned in James 2:8).

This had to do with following the law of Moses or not. Those who chose to remain in Judaism could do so...in order to win Jews for Christ. But Gentiles were not required to do so.

No argument from me on that one.

...ALL followers of Christ were to walk in the new life in the Spirit. These met together after the Sabbath on the first day of the week. They met on the common ground of Christ...the middle wall of separation having been torn down to make of the two... ONE new man.

No argument with that statement either, except that the followers of Jesus likely met EVERY day. They were often called, "People of the Way".

 

[Phoneman777]

James 2:20-21
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
(NKJ)

Okay, then how do you explain this?
He was accounted righteous before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God. Check it out in Genesis 15;4-6 below..

Genesis 15:4-6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ)

It seems that God accounted him righteous solely for his faith in His Promises, and not by anything that he did. There is nothing in Genesis 15 that mentions any works that Abraham did. Paul accurately reports this. It seems that James did not consider the account in Genesis 15. It was not until Genesis 22, many years after Isaac was born, when Abraham was well over 100 years old, that he agreed to offer Isaac.

James writes:
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Neither of those last two statements are in the Genesis 15:4-6 account.
Nowhere does the OT Scripture say that Abraham "was called God's friend" BECAUSE he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. In Isaiah 41:8 it states that God called Abraham His friend but nowhere in the context of the chapter does He say it was because Abraham offered up his son Isaac.

What James wrote, as shown above, are direct contradiction of the Gospel that Paul taught and the account given in Genesis 15:4-6. Abraham was righteous before God solely because he believed God’s promises.

The religious who advocate works can argue this until they are blue in the face but it does not change the FACTS as shown in Genesis.

In my opinion the book of James is devoid of the gospel of grace as taught by Paul.

However, it was compatible with the law of Moses. Since the word of God has to be based on truth, I find the book of James is not based on FAITH in Christ’s work on the cross but only on works of the law and is not for this age of God’s grace. The very fact that it was addressed to Jews (James 1:1) is more proof that it was only for the Jews who were under the law.

It remains to be seen that the religious will try to destroy what I have written by attacking me, personally, and it will show that they want people to believe we are under the law in this age of God’s grace. They can easily attack me but they can not say that the scriptures I have presented do not say what I have reported them to say.

Under grace a person must place their faith (belief) in God’s promise of salvation based on their belief in what He (Jesus) did on the cross where He paid for the sins of the whole world. Through the gospel of grace that was given to Paul God, Himself, paid for the sins of the world and a person has to believe it to have salvation. If they do not then they are condemned because they do not believe God.

We're saved by faith but judged by our works because our works demonstrate we've been saved by faith.

Not that difficult a concept, except for those who insist on trying to hold onto sin and Jesus at the same time.

 

[justbyfaith]

Then why aren't you following the dietary laws of Israel?

Mainly, because I love bacon.......I am a weak soul.

I believe that Romans 7:6 tells us how we are to interpret the OT law. We are to obey the spirit of the law rather than be bound to the letter. See also Romans 2:29, 2 Corinthians 3:6.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you believe that the book of James was holy Spirit inspired then you must see, and admit, that it was NOT written to the Gentiles who are under grace. It was written to the Jews only as it is written in James 1:1.

Some on this forum just will not concede that the above is true. The reason is clear. They want to keep the gospel as a blend of law (works) and grace which will not get anyone into Heaven.

The religious just rationalize (twist) that it was written to the Gentiles too.

Because I believe that the Holy Spirit did not leave out the word Gentiles some on here would say I am wrong to show the obvious truth of God's word. If a person believes James was written to the Gentile too then how many other scriptures will that person twist?

As for what I believe about it, the Holy Spirit did not leave out anything He wanted the Jews to see but He did not address it to those under grace.

Believe it or not. At this point I can care less.

Since I was circumcised the eighth day, I will consider that James is inspired and written to me.

I have to say that I think you're missing out on a veritable treasure in the book of James.

It is a mighty blessing to me.

And I think also that you could miss out on salvation itself in that you reject the book of James as being God's word (see Revelation 22:19).

I think that James 1:22, for example, really does substantiate the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23.

It says, But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

I think that you, @H. Richard, would have us believe that it is only Jews who are deceived when they fail to be doers of the word. I happen to believe that it is true of everyone across the board.

 

[Grailhunter]

This is fun to watch. You guys need to listen to Lady Crosstalk....at least she has a clue!

 

[justbyfaith]

Can’t read your mind and I don’t know what you are implying by that passage.

That obedience to the gospel is summed up in the act of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is fun to watch. You guys need to listen to Lady Crosstalk....at least she has a clue!

She is one voice of many that can contribute intelligently to the conversation.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

James 2:20-21
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
(NKJ)

Okay, then how do you explain this?
He was accounted righteous before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God. Check it out in Genesis 15;4-6 below..

Genesis 15:4-6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ)

It seems that God accounted him righteous solely for his faith in His Promises, and not by anything that he did. There is nothing in Genesis 15 that mentions any works that Abraham did. Paul accurately reports this. It seems that James did not consider the account in Genesis 15. It was not until Genesis 22, many years after Isaac was born, when Abraham was well over 100 years old, that he agreed to offer Isaac.

James writes:
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Neither of those last two statements are in the Genesis 15:4-6 account.
Nowhere does the OT Scripture say that Abraham "was called God's friend" BECAUSE he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. In Isaiah 41:8 it states that God called Abraham His friend but nowhere in the context of the chapter does He say it was because Abraham offered up his son Isaac.

What James wrote, as shown above, are direct contradiction of the Gospel that Paul taught and the account given in Genesis 15:4-6. Abraham was righteous before God solely because he believed God’s promises.

The religious who advocate works can argue this until they are blue in the face but it does not change the FACTS as shown in Genesis.

In my opinion the book of James is devoid of the gospel of grace as taught by Paul.

However, it was compatible with the law of Moses. Since the word of God has to be based on truth, I find the book of James is not based on FAITH in Christ’s work on the cross but only on works of the law and is not for this age of God’s grace. The very fact that it was addressed to Jews (James 1:1) is more proof that it was only for the Jews who were under the law.

It remains to be seen that the religious will try to destroy what I have written by attacking me, personally, and it will show that they want people to believe we are under the law in this age of God’s grace. They can easily attack me but they can not say that the scriptures I have presented do not say what I have reported them to say.

Under grace a person must place their faith (belief) in God’s promise of salvation based on their belief in what He (Jesus) did on the cross where He paid for the sins of the whole world. Through the gospel of grace that was given to Paul God, Himself, paid for the sins of the world and a person has to believe it to have salvation. If they do not then they are condemned because they do not believe God.

Why is faith without works dead?

Answer: James says, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). Notice that the message of Jesus is the same as the message of James. Obedience to God is the mark of true saving faith. James uses the examples of Abraham and Rahab to illustrate the obedience that accompanies salvation.

Amen

 

[justbyfaith]

There IS no such thing as the Law of the Spirit

Rom 8:2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 3:27, Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

If you believe that the book of James was holy Spirit inspired then you must see, and admit, that it was NOT written to the Gentiles who are under grace. It was written to the Jews only as it is written in James 1:1.

Some on this forum just will not concede that the above is true. The reason is clear. They want to keep the gospel as a blend of law (works) and grace which will not get anyone into Heaven.

The religious just rationalize (twist) that it was written to the Gentiles too.

Because I believe that the Holy Spirit did not leave out the word Gentiles some on here would say I am wrong to show the obvious truth of God's word. If a person believes James was written to the Gentile too then how many other scriptures will that person twist?

As for what I believe about it, the Holy Spirit did not leave out anything He wanted the Jews to see but He did not address it to those under grace.

Believe it or not. At this point I can care less.

I believe that all scriptures by the inspiration of God.

First, inspired Scripture is important for teaching. As a young minister, Timothy was being reminded of the importance of using Scripture, rather than personal opinions, as the basis for teaching. Second, inspired Scripture is useful for reproof or pointing out wrong.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

 

[CNKW3]

That obedience to the gospel is summed up in the act of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I just got lectured by someone who says that I don’t consider people’s point of view enough. So, let me walk everybody through my process...
When I read this it takes me all of about 5 secs to consider if this is reasonable or not because then I have like 4 verses pop into my mind that contradict what was said. So, I did consider your point of view but here is how I am going to answer...
The Bible says that belief is a work of God. I agree. I won’t agree that the text says that obedience to the gospel is summed up in this one passage. Everyone must agree that this conclusion is not mentioned in the text or even implied. That was a quick and easy conclusion to draw.
Also
The Bible says that baptism is a work of God. Now I know everybody is losing it right about now but consider the following passage.
Colossians 2:11-13 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
What is the circumcision made without hands? Paul is about to tell us.

in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism,
It’s baptism. It is through baptism that the sins of the flesh are put off as the text says. Who is the one doing this circumcising? He tells us next.

wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
It is through faith in the operation (or working) of God. It is God who does all the work on the believer in baptism by removing his sins. Let’s keep reading..

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
This is the end result of being raised out of the water. Sins are forgiven. This is in perfect harmony with other passages. Acts 2:38, 3:19, 22:16, Rom 6:3,4,17,18

So, when a person is baptized it is God who is working or operating in removing, circumcising off the sins of the believer. This is what people must understand about baptism. It is not a work of man but a work of God. I’m sorry I didn’t really consider your position any longer than I did. I tried.