Please explain this.

[Lady Crosstalk]

Rom 8:2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Paul is speaking in this passage AGAINST the reliance on the law. A better understanding would be yielded by substituting the word, "power" for the word "law" (which indeed, some dynamic translations do).

Rom 3:27

, Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Again, Paul is speaking of relying on the Holy Spirit. After he recites the "fruit of the Spirit," Paul tells us in Galatians 5:23 "...against such things, THERE IS NO LAW."

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

The Five Crowns that will be awarded to believers at the Bema seat of Christ, are all given for what the Holy Spirit has produced in the believer. A study of the Crowns is quite instructive as to what is expected of us. Being an "overcomer" has approximately the same meaning as "victor" and it illustrates what the Spirit is speaking to the churches. The Greek word used for "crown," when speaking of the Five Crowns, is not a golden crown (a diadem) but rather stephanos--a wreath placed on the head of a victor in a sporting competition. The Judge of the competition would sit on a bema (a raised platform) and give out the awards. When we surrender to the Holy Spirit's work in us, He makes us "overcome" our own evil, fleshly, prideful "natural" selves.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Bible says that belief is a work of God.

The Bible says that Jesus said that belief is THE work of God. John 6:28-29.

The Bible says that baptism is a work of God.

Chapter and verse?

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul is speaking in this passage AGAINST the reliance on the law. A better understanding would be yielded by substituting the word, "power" for the word "law" (which indeed, some dynamic translations do).


Again, Paul is speaking of relying on the Holy Spirit. After he recites the "fruit of the Spirit," Paul tells us in Galatians 5:23 "...against such things, THERE IS NO LAW."

The point being, that you said that there is no such thing as the law of the Spirit of life...and scripture bears witness to the fact that there is such a thing.

 

[justbyfaith]

@CNKW3,

I suppose that you have not been studying the scriptures long enough to discover the reality of scripture that salvation is not of works. That is fine. I pray that you keep studying until you find the answer. I would set before you some scriptures in particular, that proclaim the reality of this doctrine. There are more than just these; but the four that I will set before you are the basic ones that I usually bring up to the ignorant.

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Tit 3:4, But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6, Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7, That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Rom 11:5, Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6, And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

The point being, that you said that there is no such thing as the law of the Spirit of life...and scripture bears witness to the fact that there is such a thing.

No, what I actually said was: "There is no such thing as the Law of the Spirit." Paul is using a bit of hyperbole in the passages you cite. But, I don't think we should make a theology out of his linguistics and instead, reach for his meaning in light of the rest of his inspired teaching. Nowhere in the rest of the New Testament is any so-called Law of the Spirit referenced. Paul had respect for the Law of Moses as a teaching tool--but he was quite adamant that the "Law kills" and that no one should ever think that they are saved by obeying the Law. We obey the moral law of God because we belong to Him and are being shaped daily by His Spirit. Let us not make law where there is none.

 

[justbyfaith]

Nowhere in the rest of the New Testament is any so-called Law of the Spirit referenced.

It only need be mentioned once for it to be a reality.

Also, there is an obedience to the law that is according to the spirit of the law and not according to the letter, spoken of in Romans 7:6, Romans 2:29, and 2 Corinthians 3:6.

Could this not be the extension of what is mentioned in Romans 8:2 when it speaks of the law of the Spirit of life; or, the law of faith (Romans 3:27)?

 

[justbyfaith]

When Paul says that there is no law against the fruit of the Spirit, he is saying that if we consistently bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn our behaviour.

Iow, if we bear the fruit of the Spirit, we will be law-abiding citizens of the kingdom.

This is because of the law, or principle, of faith; or the law, or principle, of the Spirit of life.

 

[Grailhunter]

Still having a blast. Hilarious! The blind leading the blind. At what point are you going to realize that battling scriptures have gotten you nowhere. At some point you guys need to read the Holy Bible and let it tell you something instead of you imposing your beliefs on it. The Apostle Paul really had nothing good to say about the Mosaic Law, and pretty much put a curse on anyone that looked to it for guidance. He also made it clear that a person's saved status and or faith, had nothing to do with works or good deeds. The Jew-want-to-be's were the enemies of Paul throughout his his ministry. Attempting to push the Mosaic Law, their customs and circumcision on Christianity. Paul and Peter dealt with this at the First Christian Council in Jerusalem and won. A casual reading of the New Testament would make this clear...so I do not know what your doing. Something over 33,000 Protestant denominations, the Church was fractured by people like you, knowing little about Christianity, just trying to prove what you believe using the scriptures. Go back and start over again! Lady Crosstalk...good job standing up to these guys.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

It only need be mentioned once for it to be a reality.

Is there any "reality" in Jesus being a door? Citing rhetorical devices do not make for a sound theology.

Also, there is an obedience to the law that is according to the spirit of the law and not according to the letter, spoken of in Romans 7:6, Romans 2:29, and 2 Corinthians 3:6.

Romans 7:4 contains a strong argument against adherence to the law: "You died to the power of the law when you died with Christ." Romans 2:29 is similar in stating that a true Jew is not one who keeps the letter of the law but one whose heart is right with God, produced by God's Spirit. The 2 Corinthians passage is more of the same--it ends with: "The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life." Not sure why you are continuing to pursue your line of reasoning. What is your point?

 

[CNKW3]

The Bible says that Jesus said that belief is THE work of God. John 6:28-29.



Chapter and verse?

Chapter and verse??? I give you a whole verse by verse breakdown and explanation and your asking me for “chapter and verse”.

 

[CNKW3]

@CNKW3,


Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Were the Ephesians baptized twice? Yes or no?

Tit 3:4

, But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6, Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7, That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This is a parallel passage with Eph 2:8,9. This passage explains what kind of “works” are under consideration. It is works of righteousness that we have done. Our own righteousness. Good deeds. Giving to charity, being kind to our neighbor, working at volunteer jobs, taking in orphans, etc. People believe that “good people” are going to heaven. This is all works of righteousness that we do. This idea would also include submitting to doctrines not found in the word of God. Like claiming you can be saved while you are all by yourself. Just crying, praying and asking for forgiveness.
In Rom 10 Paul helps us understand..
Romans 10:2-3 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Make no mistake, we are to do WORKS in order to be accepted by God. Works of Gods righteousness not ours..
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
You want to be righteous? Then you’re going to have DO or WORK righteousness. Not your own stemming from your own will, but do what God has said in his word.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Here’s the person all alone on their bed for salvation.
If you want to enter the kingdom you must DO the will of the father. That will can ONLY be found in the NT.

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Do you want everlasting life? Then Jesus says you will need to LABOR or WORK for it.
This teaching of NO WORKS salvation is from the devil. He has had great success in deceiving the masses.

Rom 4:1

, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This context is about “works” of the old law. Read chapter 3.
Was Abraham a man who did nothing? Or was he a faithful and obedient servant? Abraham worked his whole life being obedient to God.
Please tell me....which of the commands of God could Abraham have rejected and still been faithful? Did he have to leave UR? Could he have rejected circumcision? How about the sacrifice of Isaac? Abraham worked his tail off and at the end here is why Abraham was a man of God...
Genesis 26:4-5 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Abraham was an obedient faithful servant who worked the works of God.

Rom 11:5

, Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6, And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

In this context he is writing to the jewish element of the church read chapters 9-11. It is directed at Jews who still wanted the old law. This is what Paul is referring to when he talks of “works”. He is not talking of NT gospel commands and directives. He contrast “grace” (NT doctrine) to “works” (OT law)
He IS NOT teaching that you DON’t have to DO ANYTHING.
The devil has a hold on you and your understanding of WORKS.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think that it IS possible to turn back to the world if one is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit--the indwelling is true salvation (Romans 8:9). How can we mere mortals do anything to reverse that? We can grieve the Holy Spirit by our behavior subsequent to salvation, but He will be there reproving and shaping our character until the day we join Jesus. Yes?

What Christian is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit?
I thought we all were.

We can not only grieve the Holy Spirit...
we can, by our own free will, decide we don't even want the Holy Spirit anymore.

What does 2 Peter 2:20-22 mean?

 

[Episkopos]

But, I don't think we should make a theology out of his linguistics

This is so subversive to the truth.

Paul is speaking of the power of the gospel. So you are rejecting what is meant to save you.

Linguistics? Paul uses words to describe the truth. And you call it linguistics?

You don't yet understand the gospel.

 

[Episkopos]

Still having a blast. Hilarious! The blind leading the blind. At what point are you going to realize that battling scriptures have gotten you nowhere. At some point you guys need to read the Holy Bible and let it tell you something instead of you imposing your beliefs on it. The Apostle Paul really had nothing good to say about the Mosaic Law, and pretty much put a curse on anyone that looked to it for guidance. He also made it clear that a person's saved status and or faith, had nothing to do with works or good deeds. The Jew-want-to-be's were the enemies of Paul throughout his his ministry. Attempting to push the Mosaic Law, their customs and circumcision on Christianity. Paul and Peter dealt with this at the First Christian Council in Jerusalem and won. A casual reading of the New Testament would make this clear...so I do not know what your doing. Something over 33,000 Protestant denominations, the Church was fractured by people like you, knowing little about Christianity, just trying to prove what you believe using the scriptures. Go back and start over again! Lady Crosstalk...good job standing up to these guys.

Such pride and arrogance...encouraging error...grievous error. You want to stop people from actually understanding what you scoff at...the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

For the record...after all the confusion being sown on this thread...we are to go from the power of the flesh (for the Jews this meant the law of Moses and for Gentiles pagan idolatry)...to the power of the Spirit.

We go from the law of sin and death (walking in our own strength) to the law of the Spirit of life that is found by abiding in Christ.

So then by the higher law of the Spirit we put to death all sin from the flesh. The Spirit conquers (overcomes) the flesh...and all this as we put our faith in the Lord in a surrender to His will.

Jesus modeled and perfected a walk in this world through His perfected humanity...that we become partakers of when we enter into Him. We then are IN His grace ...and we do so by faith. This is the salvation that we are offered through the gospel. A release from our bondage to sin, this world, and the devil.

So we walk as Jesus walked...in a holiness that is not our own. It is His. In a life that is not our own. It is His. That is the "Way" that was preached in the early church as recorded in the bible.

All other considerations are taking the truth away from the words from God.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

What Christian is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit?
I thought we all were.

We can not only grieve the Holy Spirit...
we can, by our own free will, decide we don't even want the Holy Spirit anymore.

What does 2 Peter 2:20-22 mean?

No--not everyone who claims to be a Christian is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. In Acts 19, we see the Apostle Paul encountering believers in Ephesus who were without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 2:20-22 is quite likely referring to those who have not received the Holy Spirit--that "soil" (see Matthew 13) which readily received the seed, but whose roots were shallow because of underlying rock (only the Holy Spirit can soften hearts of stone). That "seed faith" dies in the "hot sun" of testing. Since we did nothing to receive the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it follows that we can do nothing to remove Him. Why do so many have such a difficult time accepting that "God is in control"?

 

[Grailhunter]

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

This is so subversive to the truth.

In what way? All sorts of heresies have been hatched through the centuries by ignoring the general thrust of Scripture and focusing narrowly on a line or two here and there.

Paul is speaking of the power of the gospel. So you are rejecting what is meant to save you.

From what on earth are you drawing to come to that conclusion?

Linguistics? Paul uses words to describe the truth. And you call it linguistics?

No--Paul was obviously a student of the meaning of words--he was trained as a Pharisee--theological hair-splitting was their strong suit. Paul actually argues constantly against that kind of abuse of Scripture.

You don't yet understand the gospel.

And I suppose you think you do. The gospel is extremely simple to comprehend--my three-year-old niece understands it well.

 

[Grailhunter]

And they are still talking about Laws....if you want to be a Jew....go be a Jew.