Wormwood said:
The first person to teach OSAS was Augustine, who also originated the "Calvinist" system in general. The system was based in the concept of total depravity which involved bondage of the will and resulted in a monergistic view of salvation.
Later, there have been those who have rejected the Calvinist system who felt the OSAS doctrine could stand alone, even though they may have rejected the monergistic view from which the doctrine was developed. So, OSAS is a logical necessity for the Calvinist, wheras others felt a need to hold to the view, "independent of its original and logical mooring."
Personally, I feel that if one rejects the root of TULIP system (TULI) there is little reason to hold on to the fruit of it (P). I do not find sufficient biblical justification for it, although I realize I likely hold the minority view.
Wormwood,
I think we need to be careful about the language we use about Augustine's view of perseverance of the saints. He did not use the OSAS language and concepts. That's a modern view. This is what Augustine wrote (translated into English). It is from his writing, '
On the Predestination of the Saints, Book 2':
Chapter 1 [I.]— Of the Nature of the Perseverance Here Discoursed of.
I Have now to consider the subject of perseverance with greater care; for in the former book also I said some things on this subject when I was discussing the beginning of
faith. I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of
God; and I call that the end by which is finished that life wherein alone there is peril of falling. Therefore it is uncertain whether any one has received this gift so long as he is still alive. For if he fall before he dies, he is, of course, said not to have persevered; and most
truly is it said. How, then, should he be said to have received or to have had perseverance who has not persevered? For if any one have continence, and fall away from that
virtue and become incontinent—or, in like manner, if he have righteousness, if patience, if even
faith, and fall away, he is rightly said to have had these
virtues and to have them no longer; for he was continent, or he was righteous, or he was patient, or he was believing, as long as he was so; but when he ceased to be so, he no longer is what he was. But how should he who has not persevered have ever been persevering, since it is only by persevering that any one shows himself persevering—and this he has not done? But lest any one should object to this, and say, If from the time at which any one became a believer he has lived— for the sake of argument— ten years, and in the midst of them has fallen from the
faith, has he not persevered for five years? I am not contending about words. If it be thought that this also should be called perseverance, as it were for so long as it lasts, assuredly he is not to be said to have had in any degree that perseverance of which we are now discoursing, by which one perseveres in Christ even to the end. And the believer of one year, or of a period as much shorter as may be conceived of, if he has lived faithfully until he died, has rather had this perseverance than the believer of many years' standing, if a little time before his death he has fallen away from the steadfastness of his
faith.
Chapter 2 [II.]— Faith is the Beginning of a Christian Man. Martyrdom for Christ's Sake is His Best Ending.
This matter being settled, let us see whether this perseverance, of which it was said, He that perseveres unto the end, the same shall be saved,
Matthew 10:22 is a gift of
God. And if it be not, how is that saying of the apostle
true: Unto you it is given in the behalf of
Christ, not only to
believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake?
Philippians 2:29 Of these things, certainly, one has respect to the beginning, the other to the end. Yet each is the gift of
God, because both are said to be given; as, also, I have already said above. For what is more
truly the beginning for a
Christian than to
believe in Christ? What end is better than to suffer for Christ? But so far as pertains to believing in
Christ, whatever kind of contradiction has been discovered, that not the beginning but the increase of
faith should be called God's gift,— to this opinion, by God's gift, I have answered enough, and more than enough. But what reason can be given why perseverance to the end should not be given in Christ to him to whom it is given to suffer for
Christ, or, to speak more distinctly, to whom it is given to die for Christ? For the Apostle Peter, showing that this is the gift of
God, says, It is better, if the
will of
God be so, to suffer for well-doing than for evil-doing.
1 Peter 3:17 When he says, If the
will of
God be so, he shows that this is divinely given, and yet not to all
saints, to suffer for
Christ's sake. For certainly those whom the
will of
God does not will to attain to the experience and the
glory of suffering, do not fail to attain to the kingdom of God if they persevere in Christ to the end. But who can say that this perseverance is not given to those who die in Christ from any weakness of body, or by any kind of accident, although a far more difficult perseverance is given to those by whom even death itself is undergone for
Christ's sake? Because perseverance is much more difficult when the persecutor is engaged in preventing a man's perseverance; and therefore he is sustained in his perseverance unto death. Hence it is more difficult to have the former perseverance,— easier to have the latter; but to Him to whom nothing is difficult it is easy to give both. For God has promised this, saying, I will put my
fear in their hearts, that they may not depart from me.
Jeremiah 32:40 And what else is this than, Such and so great shall be my
fear that I will put into their hearts that they will perseveringly cleave to me?
Chapter 3.— God is Besought for It, Because It is His Gift.
But why is that perseverance asked for from God if it is not given by
God? Is that, too, a mocking petition, when that is asked from Him which it is
known that He does not give, but, though He gives it not, is in man's power; just as that giving of thanks is a mockery, if thanks are given to God for that which He did not give nor do? But what I have said there, I say also here again: Be not deceived, says the apostle,
God is not mocked.
Galatians 6:6 O man, God is a
witness not only of your words, but also of your thoughts. If you ask anything in
truth and
faith of one who is so rich,
believe that you receive from Him from whom you ask, what you ask. Abstain from honouring Him with your lips and extolling yourself over Him in your heart, by believing that you have from yourself what you are pretending to beseech from Him. Is not this perseverance, perchance, asked for from Him? He who says this is not to be rebuked by any arguments, but must be overwhelmed with the
prayers of the
saints. Is there any of these who does not ask for himself from God that he may persevere in Him, when in that very
prayer which is called the Lord's— because the Lord taught it— when it is
prayed by the
saints, scarcely anything else is understood to be
prayed for but perseverance?
For Augustine, perseverance of the saints meant:
- Perseverance is a gift of God;
- If a person is still alive, it is uncertain whether he has that gift;
- If a person falls before death, it cannot be said that he persevered;
- He can fall away, but he then it cannot he has persevered in the faith;
- 'He that perseveres unto the end, the same shall be saved' (Matt 10:22);
- The beginning of a Christian is to believe in Christ;
- What end for the Christian is better than to suffer for Christ?
- For not all Christians will suffer as the will of God, but if they want to attain the kingdom of God, they persevere in Christ to the end.
- God promised, 'I will put my fear in their hearts, that they may not depart from me' (Jer 32:40).
- It is a mocking petition, if perseverance is asked for when God has not given it.
- Ask anything in truth and faith from the one who is so rich and you will receive from Him.
- Ask of God for perseverance in Him.
I find this to be a different emphasis to OSAS. Augustine's view of perseverance of the saints is closely connected to his understanding of election/predestination (as it is for Calvinists).
Oz
. He never differentiated between saved and unsaved. He always spoke to all in the church as though they were Christians. IE He differentiated between those professing to be saved VS those not professing to be saved. I mean just consider the fact that he had to tell Christians'' to stop incest in 1 Cor 5. Then in 1 Cor 5:13 we see he says expel the wicked from among you. So he is talking to Christians to judge themselves for extreme sexual immorality and then explaining that one caught in such is extremely wicked. IE not a Christian. Expelled immediately. Of course he would also say unless they repent don't expel (Christian).
