Pope wants to change the Lord's Prayer

[Ally.s.j]

People come here to teach?
Since when?
I thought we came here to share the word of God.
To talk about God and theology.
To have some fellowship.
Who here has a PhD after their name?
If you don't, don't teach.

I'm not aiming this at you, just taking advantage of your post...
James 3:1

Yes in this forum and every other forum. They come in for variuos reasons but most ebd up telling others how it is.
they come here to talk about God and many other things. There are many time wasting thing in the forums.
Some have fellowship
Many think they have PhD, My son does. I dont.
We all know and most ignore James warning about let not many teach. But for some reason it does not apply to most who presume to teach.
We can all teach. But its know that your correct and when your saying what you think. I know what I am talking about on healing. I dont think there is any in here who would teach me anything on healing. That will sound arogant to some. I am ok with that. If its true then its true. But to many get there knickers in a twist with things that they dont undestand. They all get hurt when you say there is no faith when healing never occured. If a musterd seed moves a mountian. then you dont need much. Same anout as what got ya saved really is all that is required. There are no big amounts of faith. Its either you fully believe it or you dont. No matter what size the problem/mountian is.

 

[GodsGrace]

What I said stands: "lead us not into temptation" is accurate.

If you or kepha31 or the pope would have said, the wording should say, "Do not prolong our temptation", then I am sure you would have Jesus' blessing. But, as it is "this is the day the Lord has made" which has a "sufficient" amount of evil...in accordance with His will. To change the wording or the meaning, is against God's will.

Jesus also said, "Not My will, but your will be done." Next, the pope will want to change Jesus' response, to: "Surely Father, you don't want me to drink this cup...so I won't."

Changing some words in a prayer is against God's will?
With all the sinning that goes on, all the wars between men, you think He's worried about some words in a prayer?
Interesting.

People understood what this meant back when Jesus said it in Mathew
6:13
"And mayest Thou not lead us to temptation, but deliver us from the evil..." YLT

It means that God should keep us AWAY from the temptation and NOT lead us to the evil, or the evil one, but it certainly no longer sounds like that today.

Have you ever tried explaining this to a young teenager?
Why confuse them? They can hardly understand a full sentence anymore with all these SMS messages cutting down vocabulary to a bare minimum. Have you seen the newest translations of the Bible?
Take a look. Today's language because kids can't even understand the NASB anymore, let alone the KJV.

Let's make that prayer understandable so that it does not have to be explained. A prayer should be self-explanatory.

 

[ScottA]

Changing some words in a prayer is against God's will?
With all the sinning that goes on, all the wars between men, you think He's worried about some words in a prayer?
Interesting.

People understood what this meant back when Jesus said it in Mathew
6:13
"And mayest Thou not lead us to temptation, but deliver us from the evil..." YLT

It means that God should keep us AWAY from the temptation and NOT lead us to the evil, or the evil one, but it certainly no longer sounds like that today.

Have you ever tried explaining this to a young teenager?
Why confuse them? They can hardly understand a full sentence anymore with all these SMS messages cutting down vocabulary to a bare minimum. Have you seen the newest translations of the Bible?
Take a look. Today's language because kids can't even understand the NASB anymore, let alone the KJV.

Let's make that prayer understandable so that it does not have to be explained. A prayer should be self-explanatory.

If you or the pope want to second guess Jesus or the providence of God over His word, because you think you know the need better than He does...go for it, I am sure you will be rewarded accordingly.

 

[epostle1]

I'm just getting here, but I can say just from your post that something is misunderstood.

Who said temptations don't abound?
I'm sure @kepha31 didn't say this. Anyone alive and going out the door knows temptations are all over the place --- even if they stay home.

But WHO leads us into temptation?
Is it God Himself?

No? Then it's good to change the prayer.
Know why? Because we are, all of us, being dumbed down and we don't even understand a prayer anymore.

"And lead us not into temptation"

Old English.
Yeah. It sounds like God is leading us into temptation.
I had to explain this to every religion class I ever had.
It needs to be changed and

I wish someone would tell me the NEW wording...

Thanks.

No, Pope Francis Is Not Changing the Lord’s Prayer

There ya go!!

 

[GodsGrace]

If you or the pope want to second guess Jesus or the providence of God over His word, because you think you know the need better than He does...go for it, I am sure you will be rewarded accordingly.

That's so sweet of you, I'm sure.

Why don't you learn aramaic so you could REALLY say it in the words Jesus used...

They might have been Hebrew. You better learn it in Hebrew too.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, Pope Francis Is Not Changing the Lord’s Prayer

There ya go!!

K
No big deal either way.
I listened to the Italian version of the interview.
The Pope said he agrees with the French version.
The Father does not PUSH us into temptation but helps us, or gives us a hand, to get out of it. That's when he motioned to the painting of Jesus giving a hand to Peter.

He doesn't make his statements very clear and this causes confusion. There's also some anger on this side because he was not 100% clear on remarrieds but left it to the priest to offer it.
It's almost like he wants to change things but doesn't want the responsibility. This is very bad.

 

[ScottA]

That's so sweet of you, I'm sure.

Why don't you learn aramaic so you could REALLY say it in the words Jesus used...

They might have been Hebrew. You better learn it in Hebrew too.

No need. God speaks in tongues.

 

[epostle1]

K
No big deal either way.
I listened to the Italian version of the interview.
The Pope said he agrees with the French version.
The Father does not PUSH us into temptation but helps us, or gives us a hand, to get out of it. That's when he motioned to the painting of Jesus giving a hand to Peter.

He doesn't make his statements very clear and this causes confusion. There's also some anger on this side because he was not 100% clear on remarrieds but left it to the priest to offer it.
It's almost like he wants to change things but doesn't want the responsibility. This is very bad.

Maybe the Pope knows things we don't. He is a humble and holy man. The priest has to be educated in finding the balance between justice and mercy, which is what Amoris laetitia is for. It is not as easy as first glance suggests. All that needed to be said was said in the debates beforehand.

• Misericordia et Misera: (Mercy and Peace) - Apostolic Letter, Pope Francis (20 November, 2016)[ Arabic- English- French- German- Italian- Polish- Portuguese- Spanish ]
• Amoris laetitia: Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation on love in the family (19 March 2016)[ Arabic- English- French- German- Italian- Polish- Portuguese- Spanish ]
• Evangelii Gaudium: Apostolic Exhortation on the Proclamation of the Gospel in Today's World (24 November 2013)
• Lumen Fidei: (The Light of Faith) - Encyclical, Pope Francis, June 29, 2013[ Arabic- Belarusian- Chinese- Chinese Simple- English- French- German- Italian- Latin-Polish- Portuguese- Spanish ]
• Proclamation of St John of Avila and St Hildegarde of Bingen as "Doctors of the Church": [Homily], by Pope Benedict XVI, October 7, Africae Munus: On the Church in Africa In Service to Reconciliation, Justice and Peace
• Guide to Understanding Basic CDF Procedures concerning Sexual Abuse Allegations: Explanatory guide to Bishops on handling sexual abuse allegations (Congregation on the Doctrine of the Faith)[ English- Italian ]
• Other Vatican documents and responses relating to Abuse of Minors:
• [English, Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, German]

The Papal Encyclicals Online

 

[aspen]

You and the pope deny that God put us here in a world where temptations abound, then?

I guess that makes you both atheists.

Temptations abound in our hearts regardless of where we are

 

[GodsGrace]

Maybe the Pope knows things we don't. He is a humble and holy man. The priest has to be educated in finding the balance between justice and mercy, which is what Amoris laetitia is for. It is not as easy as first glance suggests. All that needed to be said was said in the debates beforehand.

• Misericordia et Misera: (Mercy and Peace) - Apostolic Letter, Pope Francis (20 November, 2016)[ Arabic- English- French- German- Italian- Polish- Portuguese- Spanish ]
• Amoris laetitia: Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation on love in the family (19 March 2016)[ Arabic- English- French- German- Italian- Polish- Portuguese- Spanish ]
• Evangelii Gaudium: Apostolic Exhortation on the Proclamation of the Gospel in Today's World (24 November 2013)
• Lumen Fidei: (The Light of Faith) - Encyclical, Pope Francis, June 29, 2013[ Arabic- Belarusian- Chinese- Chinese Simple- English- French- German- Italian- Latin-Polish- Portuguese- Spanish ]
• Proclamation of St John of Avila and St Hildegarde of Bingen as "Doctors of the Church": [Homily], by Pope Benedict XVI, October 7, Africae Munus: On the Church in Africa In Service to Reconciliation, Justice and Peace
• Guide to Understanding Basic CDF Procedures concerning Sexual Abuse Allegations: Explanatory guide to Bishops on handling sexual abuse allegations (Congregation on the Doctrine of the Faith)[ English- Italian ]
• Other Vatican documents and responses relating to Abuse of Minors:
• [English, Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, German]

The Papal Encyclicals Online

Hi K
I used to have to read the above type stuff. I don't anymore !

Two comments:

1. Yes. I'm sure the Pope knows things we don't, just like the Pres. of the U.S. does - and every other one.

2. Amores Laetitia, which is a book, is the last thing I read with any interest due to the aspect of having remarrieds receive communion. I had predicted this about 4 years ago. (maybe 3)

Do you realize that this changes a doctrine? An important one at that. Do you realize this means that ANY doctrine could be changed? My friends tell me this is not so. Are we living in the same world??
What say you?

 

[ScottA]

Temptations abound in our hearts regardless of where we are

True.

 

[Marymog]

Thought this was interesting.... For the record, I'm against it.

Pope Francis Suggests Changing The Words To The 'Lord's Prayer'

Hello,

Italian television did an hour-long interview with Pope Francis. In that interview he was asked about a new version of the Lord’s Prayer in France
where they adopted a new translation of the Lord’s Prayer for use in their liturgy. The French changed the line that in English reads “and lead us not into temptation” to one that means “do not let us fall into temptation.”

The Pope responded to the question by saying: The French have changed the text and their translation says “don’t let me fall into temptation,” . . . It’s me who falls. It’s not Him who pushes me into temptation, as if I fell. A father doesn’t do that. A father helps you to get up right away. The one who leads into temptation is Satan. (Other accounts also report him saying that the “lead us not into temptation” rendering is not a good translation because it is misleading to modern ears).

Making a comment in an interview that a translation can be misleading is not the same thing as mandating a change to The Lords Prayer.

So what are you exactly against? The Pope going on the record in an interview with his opinion on what the French did? Or are you just anti-Pope?

FYI....it’s up to local episcopal conferences what they want to do in this regard.

IHS....Mary

 

[Marymog]

How about "anti-Catholic Church"? Not, anti-catholic people.

Hi tabletalk,

How do you separate the two?

Curious Mary

 

[tabletalk]

Hi tabletalk,

How do you separate the two?

Curious Mary

I separate the institution from the individual who belongs to it.

 

[Marymog]

I separate the institution from the individual who belongs to it.

Hi tabletalk,

If the individual is complying by all the rules, regulations or doctrines of the institution wouldn't they in effect be one in the same?

Curious Mary

 

[epostle1]

Hi K
I used to have to read the above type stuff. I don't anymore !

Two comments:

1. Yes. I'm sure the Pope knows things we don't, just like the Pres. of the U.S. does - and every other one.

2. Amores Laetitia, which is a book, is the last thing I read with any interest due to the aspect of having remarrieds receive communion. I had predicted this about 4 years ago. (maybe 3)

It seems to me you dismissed Amores Latetitia because of media headlines.

Do you realize that this changes a doctrine? An important one at that. Do you realize this means that ANY doctrine could be changed? My friends tell me this is not so. Are we living in the same world??
What say you?

No doctrine has changed. How a sacrament is conferred has nothing to do with changing doctrine. The essence of the sacrament remains constant; it's been that way for 2000 years.
Amoris laetitia: Esortazione Apostolica sull'amore nella famiglia (19 marzo 2016) | Francesco

 

[GodsGrace]

It seems to me you dismissed Amores Latetitia because of media headlines.
No doctrine has changed. How a sacrament is conferred has nothing to do with changing doctrine. The essence of the sacrament remains constant; it's been that way for 2000 years.
Amoris laetitia: Esortazione Apostolica sull'amore nella famiglia (19 marzo 2016) | Francesco

I'm tired of battling this out.
I read it, as I said. Famous chapter 8. The pope left it purposefully vague.

Before 1913, approx, remarrieds were not allowed in church.
Then they were allowed in church but no communion.
Bad sign.
Now they could receive communion.
You don't care to see this as drastic change?
Fine.
Just remember that God does not allow divorce.
Oh. And have you noticed the annulment rates on the increase??
Wonder why...

 

[tabletalk]

Hi tabletalk,

If the individual is complying by all the rules, regulations or doctrines of the institution wouldn't they in effect be one in the same?

Curious Mary

No; complying doesn't mean belief from the heart.

 

[epostle1]

I'm tired of battling this out.
I read it, as I said. Famous chapter 8. The pope left it purposefully vague.

Before 1913, approx, remarrieds were not allowed in church.
Then they were allowed in church but no communion.
Bad sign.
Now they could receive communion.
You don't care to see this as drastic change?
Fine.
Just remember that God does not allow divorce.
Oh. And have you noticed the annulment rates on the increase??
Wonder why...

I would rather belong to a Church that favored justice and mercy over your rigid legalism, where the letter of the law trumps over the spirit of the law. If you were so concerned about the family you would see to it's protection from radical traditionalists that seeks to tear down everything the Pope does.
Annulment rates have increased because there are more illegitimate marriages. Wonder why...
There is no divorce in the Catholic Church. Even the Pope cannot nullify a valid marriage. You should know that much.
It is not a sin to be divorced, it is a sin to be "remarried" (there is no such thing) without an annulment.
Those who can receive Holy Communion is a very complicated matter and not something the average lay person can sort out for themselves.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would rather belong to a Church that favored justice and mercy over your rigid legalism, where the letter of the law trumps over the spirit of the law. If you were so concerned about the family you would see to it's protection from radical traditionalists that seeks to tear down everything the Pope does.
Annulment rates have increased because there are more illegitimate marriages. Wonder why...
There is no divorce in the Catholic Church. Even the Pope cannot nullify a valid marriage. You should know that much.
It is not a sin to be divorced, it is a sin to be "remarried" (there is no such thing) without an annulment.
Those who can receive Holy Communion is a very complicated matter and not something the average lay person can sort out for themselves.

What makes you think I'm a rigid legalist?
Far from it. In fact, I resent being called that just because I think we should adhere to what Jesus said.

What is the spirit of the law when it comes to divorce?

Jesus said there is to be no divorce except in cases of fornication. The CC has changed this and made up their own rules as to who can be divorced. Also their own version of annulment. Which is on the increase because of Amoris Laetitia, as I'm sure you understand.

I have a big problem reconciling what Jesus commanded with a person having to remain alone a whole lifetime. So do I listen to Jesus or a church?
Did Paul even understand what Jesus wanted??

The CC DOES allow divorce. I'll give you two reasons, you can check this out with your priest:
1. The husband or wife is depleting the monetary resources of a family due to gambling or any other reason. This breaks down a family and shows no respect for the covenant of marriage.
2. Physical or mental abuse. The husband or wife is not following Ephesians 5. Same as no. 1

The above has nothing to do with annulment which is totally different. Many excuses are being found today to annul a marriage just so persons could get remarried.

So the church says it's ok. Does God say it's ok?
I have a problem with this. Please don't call me a legalist because of this.