Shalom, Azadok and all.
Azadok said:
That's not what John 3:13 means ....... It is telling us that no man has ascended or gone up to heaven thatdid not come down from heaven first . Ponder that ....... What Jesus is telling all of you is that you were all in heaven before you passed through this flesh age because of the KATABOLE ( look that word up in your Strongs concordence ) . In the KJV it is frequently used as since the FOUNDATION ( katabole) OF THIS WORLD ( aion) and world is another bad translation as it is usually age in this sense .
2 Corinthians 5:8 to be abscent from the body is to be present with the lord .......pretty straight forward .
Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 .......Or ever that silver cord (spinal cord)be loosed or that golden bowl (head or skull )be broken or the pitcher be broken at the fountain ( your heart)or the wheel be broken at the cistern
12:7 ....... Then shall the dust return to the earth ( our clay bodies) as it was and our SPIRIT shall return unto God who made it .
THe word new here does not imply a new earth as it means a new age as in new earth age , same old earth only now it has been cleansed of all the rudiments , the evil is gone and we all , who were found written in the book of life have both our spiritual eternal bodies and eternal souls . The first death is the death of the flesh the second death is the death of the soul which took place at the great white throne judgement , where all who were not written in the book of life where blotted out in the lake of fire , never to be again and completely taken from our memories . This is when the third heaven and earth age will begin after final judgment ending the second earth age , we are currently in the second heaven and earth age which came about because of Satan and his uprising the , KATABOLE ,as it was called in the bible in greek and it means the throwing down , it is always refered to as the FOUNDATION (KATABOLE) of this world ( AION , meaning age ) in the KJV bible .
The first earth age was destroyed because of this uprising . Genessis 1:1 says in the beginning God created the heavensand the earth . That is a complete statement and no date is given , the Hebrew word for created there denotes TOTAL COMPLETION.
Genesis 1:2 states .......and the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the deep .......the word WAS in at sentence is the Hebrew word Hayah ( Strongs H 1961 ) and it means TO BECOME so the earth became Void and without form as in it was destroyed .
This is why in genesis 1:28 the sixth day man is told to REPLENISH the earth , this is the same exact word used when znoah leaves the ark and is told to replenish the earth , it is only used two times in the whole bible .
You don't know what you're talking about because you DON'T know Hebrew! This is the old, tired, worn-out "gap theory," the thought that there is a "gap" between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. No such "gap" occurred!
The first thing one needs to understand about Hebrew is that there are NO vowels in its alphabet! All of its letters are consonants. That being said, there ARE vowel sounds used with those consonants, but they vary based on the phrases and uses of the words. So, "erets" and "`aarets" (with the added definite article "haa-") are the same word, spelled "alef-reish-tsadday." This is my transliteration scheme:
alef = nothing at the beginning of a word, it's the same "consonant" sound as at the beginning of the words "egg" and "umbrella." Within a word or at the end of a word, I will use the apostrophe (')
bet (with a dot or at the beginning of a word) = b or B at the beginning of a sentence or name
vet (without a dot not at the beginning of a word) = V
gimmel (dotted or not) = g (always hard "g" as in "goat," never soft "g" as in "ginger") or G at the beginning of a sentence or name
dalet (dotted or not) = d or D at the beginning of a sentence or name
hei = h or H at the beginning of a sentence or name
vav = v or V at the beginning of a sentence or name
zayin = z or Z at the beginning of a sentence or name
chet = ch as in the Scottish word "loch" or Ch at the beginning of a sentence or name
Tet = T or TT at the beginning of a sentence or name
Yod = y or Y at the beginning of a sentence or name
Kaf (with a dot or at the beginning of a word) = k or K at the beginning of a sentence or name
Khaf (without a dot not at the beginning of a word) = kh (very hard guttural sound as in German)
Lamed = l or L at the beginning of a sentence or name
Meim = m or M at the beginning of a sentence or name
Nun = n or N at the beginning of a sentence or name
Samekh = c and pronounced like a soft "c" as in "cinder," never a hard "c" as in "cat"
`Ayin = the back apostrophe (`), pronounced in the back of the throat like a "swallowed g"
Pei (with a dot or without at the beginning of a word) = p
Fei (without a dot not at the beginning of a word) = f
Tsadday = ts (as in "nuts") or Ts at the beginning of a sentence or name
Qof = q or Q at the beginning of a sentence or name
Reish = r or R at the beginning of a sentence or name
Shin = sh or Sh at the beginning of a sentence or name
Sin = s or S at the beginning of a sentence or name
Tav (dotted or undotted) = t or T at the beginning of a sentence or name
The vowel pointing is as follows:
Qamets = aa (pronounced as "aw" in "saw")
Patach = a (pronounced as "ah" in "father")
Tsere = ee (pronounced as "ay" in "day")
Tsere with yod = eey (pronouced as "ay" in "day")
Segol = e (pronounced as "eh" in "bed")
Chireq = i (pronounced as "ee" in "bee")
Chireq with yod = iy (pronounced as "ee" in "bee")
Cholem = o (pronounced as "oh" in "row")
Cholem with vav = ow (pronounced as "oh" in "row")
Qamets chatuf = aa (pronounced as "o" in "dog")
Qibbuts = u (pronounced as "oo" in "pool")
Shureq (a dotted vav) = uw (pronounced as "oo" in "pool")
Sheva = at the beginning of a word it will be omitted although it gets a short, quick sound as the "a" in "among" or the "o" in "occur"; in the middle of a word it is generally a silent letter used to finish a syllable with a consonant or to make a consonant blend; sometimes for clarity, I will write a hyphen (-) to represent the short, quick sound to isolate one word from another. E.G., "birushaalayim" might be rather represented "b-Yrushaalayim" to show that the word contains the place Yerushaalayim (Jerusalem)
This scheme may be a little confusing at times, but it provides a way to see the way the word was spelled in Hebrew and the pronunciation of the word, as well.
Here's the Hebrew for Genesis 1:1-13 (transliterated into English letters):
Bree’shiyt 1:1-13
1 Bree’shiyt baaraa’ Elohiym eet hashaamayim v’eet haa’aarets.
2 Vhaa’aarets haaytaah tohuw vaaVohuw vchoshekh `al pneey thowm. Vruwach Elohiym mrachefet `al pneey hamaayim.
3 Vayo’mer Elohiym, “Yhiy owr.” Vayhiy owr.
4 Vayar’ Elohiym et haa’owr kiy TowV vayaVdeel Elohiym beeyn haa’owr uwVeeyn hachoshekh.
5 Vayiqraa’ Elohiym laa’owr, “Yowm,” vlachoshekh qaaraa’, “Laaylaah,” Vayhiy `ereV vayhiy boqer yowm echaad.
6 Vayo’mer Elohiym, “Yhiy raaqiya` btowkh hamaayim viyhiy maVdiyl beeyn mayim laamaayim.”
7 Vaya`as Elohiym et haaraaqiya` vayaVdeel beeyn hamayim asher mitachat laaraaqiya` uwVeeyn hamayim asher mee`al laaraaqiya` vayhiy keen.
8 Vayiqraa’ Elohiym laaraaqiya`, “Shaamaayim.” Vayhiy `ereV vayhiy boqer yowm sheeniy.
9 Vayo’mer Elohlym, “Yiqaavuw hamayim mitachat hashaamayim el maaqowm echaad vteeraa’eh hayabaashaah,” vayhiy keen.
10 Vayiqraa’ Elohiym layabaashaah, “Erets,” uwlmiqveh hamayim qaaraa’, “Yamiym,” vayar’ Elohiym kiy TowV.
11 Vayo’mer Elohlym, “Tadshee’ haa’aarets deshe’ `eeseV mazriya` zera` `eets priy `oseh priy lmiynow asher zar`ow bow `al haa’aarets,” vayhiy keen.
12 Vatowtsee’ haa’aarets deshe’ `eeseV mazriya` zera` lmiyneehuw v`eets `oseh priy asher zar`ow bow lmiyneehuw vayar’ Elohiym kiy TowV.
13 Vayhiy `ereV vayhiy boqer yowm shliyshiy.
JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh
1 Bree’shiyt = 1 In-beginning
baaraa’ = created
Elohiym = God
eet = (the following is the direct object)
hashaamayim = the-skies
v’eet = and (the following is the direct object)
haa’aarets. = the-earth.
2 Vhaa’aarets = And-the-earth
haaytaah = was
tohuw = formless
vaaVohuw = and-barren
vchoshekh = and-darkness
`al = against/upon
pneey = (sur)face
thowm. = of-deep.
Vruwach = And-Spirit/wind
Elohiym = of-God
mrachefet = brooded/contemplated
`al = against/upon
pneey = (sur)face
hamaayim. = of-the-waters.
3 Vayo’mer = 3 And-said
Elohiym, = God
“Yhiy = "Let-there-be
owr.” = light."
Vayhiy = And-there-was
owr. = light.
4 Vayar’ = 4 And-saw
Elohiym = God
et = (the following is the direct object)
haa’owr = the-light
kiy = like/as
TowV = good
vayaVdeel = and-separated
Elohiym = God
beeyn = between
haa’owr = the-light
uwVeeyn = and-between
hachoshekh. = the-darkness.
5 Vayiqraa’ = 5 And-called
Elohiym = God
laa’owr, = to-the-light,
“Yowm,” = "Day,"
vlachoshekh = and-to-the-darkness
qaaraa’, = He-called
“Laaylaah,” = "Night."
Vayhiy = And-there-was
`ereV = evening
vayhiy = and-there-was
boqer = morning
yowm = day
echaad. = one.
6 Vayo’mer = 6 And-said
Elohiym, = God,
“Yhiy = "Let-there-be
raaqiya` = an-expanse
btowkh = in-middle
hamaayim = of-the-waters
viyhiy = and-let-it
maVdiyl = divide
beeyn = from
mayim = waters
laamaayim.” = to-the-waters."
7 Vaya`as = And-made
Elohiym = God
et = (the following is the direct object)
haaraaqiya` = the-expanse
vayaVdeel = and-divided
beeyn = from
hamayim = the-waters
asher = which-(were)
mitachat = under
laaraaqiya` = to-the-expanse
uwVeeyn = and-from
hamayim = the waters
asher = which-(were)
mee`al = above
laaraaqiya` = to-the-expanse
vayhiy = and-it-was
keen. = so.
8 Vayiqraa’ = 8 And-called
Elohiym = God
laaraaqiya`, = to-the-expanse,
“Shaamaayim.” = "Skies."
Vayhiy = And-there-was
`ereV = evening
vayhiy = and-there-was
boqer = morning
yowm = day
sheeniy. = two.
9 Vayo’mer = 9 And-said
Elohlym, = God,
“Yiqaavuw = Let-be-gathered
hamayim = the-waters
mitachat = under
hashaamayim = the-skies
el = unto
maaqowm = place
echaad = one
vteeraa’eh = and-let-appear
hayabaashaah,” = the-dry-ground."
vayhiy = and-it-was
keen. = so.
10 Vayiqraa’ = 10 And-called
Elohiym = God
layabaashaah, = to-the-dry-ground,
“Erets,” = "Earth,"
uwlmiqveh = and-to-(the)-gathering
hamayim = of-the-waters
qaaraa’, = He-called,
“Yamiym,” = "Seas,"
vayar’ = and-saw
Elohiym = God
kiy = as/like
TowV. = good.
11 Vayo’mer = 11 And-said
Elohlym, = God,
“Tadshee’ = "Let-bring-forth
haa’aarets = the-earth
deshe’ = grass,
`eeseV = herb
mazriya` = bearing
zera` = seed,
`eets = tree
priy = of-fruit
`oseh = bearing
prig =fruit
lmiynow = after-its-species
asher = whose
zar`ow = seed
bow = (is)-within
`al = against/upon
haa’aarets,” = the-earth."
vayhiy = and-it-was
keen. = so.
12 Vatowtsee’ = 12 And-brought-forth
haa’aarets = the-earth
deshe’ = grass
`eeseV = herb
mazriya` = bearing
zera` = seed
lmiyneehuw =after-its-species
v`eets = and-tree
`oseh = bearing
priy = fruit
asher = whose
zar`ow = seed
bow = (is)-within
lmiyneehuw = after-its-species
vayar’ = and-saw
Elohiym = God
kiy = as/like
TowV. = good.
13 Vayhiy = 13 And-there-was
`ereV = evening
vayhiy = and-there-was
boqer =morning
yowm = day
shliyshiy. = three.
I listed the first three days of Creation so you might be able to see that the words "Shaamayim" (verse 8 on day 2) and "Erets" (verse 10 on day 3) were THEN invented by God! As is COMMON in Hebrew, the first verse is like a summary of what is to follow, kind of like the major point in an outline followed by the minor, more-detailed points of the outline.
Somebody has misinformed you regarding Genesis 1:2 in particular. Don't perpetuate the misinformation. I sincerely hope that I haven't "thrown pearls before the swine," but if this can help you, let it help you. Perhaps others can get something out of what I've written, as well.
