Preterism's Claim Of 70AD Fulfillment Is Silenced In One Verse, Luke 21:35
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Adolph Hitler and Mussolini and the Gestapo and the SS can apply those verses in Ephesians to themselves?
This is what you are saying.
So you teach that we can throw out some of the law and keep some of the law? Can you direct me to the person that can administrate such a doctrine? I’d like to read their works.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
So sad that you really believe the the veil in reference is a literal curtain that was standing in a literal building made with hands. I really do hope that one day Christ will manifest Himself to you.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
James 3:14-15 KJV
[14] But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. [15] This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
John 3:31-32 KJV
[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the
John 3:31-32 KJV
[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. [32] And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
Philippians 3:19 KJV
[19] Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. [32] And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
[14] But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. [15] This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
John 3:31-32 KJV
[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the
John 3:31-32 KJV
[31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. [32] And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
Philippians 3:19 KJV
[19] Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. [32] And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Maybe you'll actually read what I wrote? I do *not* believe the Law is in effect any longer, nor that God is judging the world, Israel, or anybody by a "defunct Law!"
Judgment Israel received for apostasizing from the Law was both judgment by the Law and judgment determining that the Law had failed. People are judged for doing things that are sinful apart from the Law because only Israel had been under the Law.
What the Law says about the character of God is true in all times, regardless of whether the Law is in effect. The Law testified both to what God is like and to what is required when the Law is in effect. And no, I don't believe the Law is in effect for *anybody* anymore!
Therefore, it doesn't matter whether the Law is in effect or not. It's testimony about God's character in judging sin is true in all situations, Law or not.
We can still learn from the testimony of the Law. But the Law no longer is the basis for judging sin. Today, all people are judged by God's character, to which the Law testified when it was in effect.
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You Gotta be kidding. Mankind is judged by God’s character? God did away with the law and judged man now by His character? Where is that in the Bible? Does that coincide with Paul’s writings? The book of Romans from Chapter 2 through chapter 7 speaks of God’s character or the judgment on sinners by the law?....
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Also....
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
....present tense.
All the world has become guilty by the law.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
....present tense.
All the world has become guilty by the law.
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Marty why do you repeat the falsehood, you have been clearly shown that the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom at the death of Jesus Christ, God vacated the Jerusalem temple in 33AD, as you openly disregard this fact "Why"?
Your claim that God had further business with the temple of man's stones decades later is a Preterist fairy tale
It's amazing how far one will go to preserve man made doctrine, same as dispensationalism in a pre-trib rapture
If it dosent fit your belief, remove it through symbolic allegory
Mark 15:37-38KJV
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
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You have been clearly shown that the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom at the death of Jesus Christ, God vacated the Jerusalem temple in 33AD, as you openly disregard this fact "Why"?
If it dosent fit your belief, remove it through symbolic allegory
Mark 15:37-38KJV
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
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Sorry Pal, the law of ordinances is gone, the 10 commandments is the only thing that lives
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I’ve shown you enough scripture to allow you to see that the veil in reference was His flesh. If you wish to state other wise then you should support your ideas with scripture.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
On what basis do you think God judges anybody? It's by His holiness. It's by His character. It's by His word. When Israel was under the Law, God's word told Israel to obey the Law, and that became the basis for Israel's judgment. It was in God's character to tell Israel what to do and expect them to obey.
God made Man in His image. He therefore expected Man to act according to His own character, His own holiness, His own love. Why does that surprise you?
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Yes, but not even the Ten Commandments "lives." It is a subset of the Law as a whole. As such, it goes out the door along with the whole covenant. And its moral precepts are repackaged in the covenant of Christ.
If we keep the 10 Commandments as part of the Law, then we are obligated to keep the whole Law. But if we keep the 10 Commandments apart from the covenant of Law, then our obligation isn't to the Law, but to God and our conscience.
The 10 Commandments have value with respect to eternal life if we keep them in connection with our commitment to Christ. Unless we turn our whole lives over to Christ, keeping the 10 Commandments will never yield eternal life.
Morality was never conditioned upon it being included in the Law. Morality existed before the Law, and it exists after the Law. It was God's Law from the moment God created Man in His own image and likeness. He expected us to live like Him, and to love like Him.
We didn't need the 10 Commandments to tell us that through the Law of Moses. It is written on all our hearts, and can be discerned in our conscience. But the Law clarifies what God is like for those hard of hearing, which of course all of us are!
I just would remind you that the 10 Commandments includes the law to observe the Sabbath Day. That requirement is definitely not a part of the New Covenant of Christ.
And as you can tell, the 10 Commandments were focused upon ancient Israel. Why else would "images," or "idols," be prohibited? Why else would the Sabbath be required? Why else would coveting property in the context of farm animals, etc. be in focus?
Those moral requirements are still valid today in our modern environment. But those laws were obviously focused upon an ancient culture that followed the OT system. Most of us aren't Israel. And none of us are obligated to any part of the Law as a covenant.
Since you teach that the Law ended, including 'thou shalt not kill", then they will be saved, right?
According to Paul, sin is governed by the Law, and you removed it's governor-ship of the law.
You better rethink your foundation. I had to.
Who taught that in the bible?
As a matter of fact, the Bible teaches the exact opposite of what you said.
James taught you must keep every Law or forget it altogether.
Paul taught that the 10 commandments were ended for the saints per 2 Cor 3.
You should not parrot others' teachings without researching what they say.
God's Law is holy.
That is the judge.
Show me where a single verse here is saying the law is past tense...
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
....notice that this is written decades after the cross.
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