Pretrib fallacies

[Taken]

All should read this and stop trying to frighten believers into believing they can lose their salvation.

​

​

GeneZ … yes

IF I buy YOU a Gift…
The Gift was bought for YOU…
The Gift IS YOURS.

If I OFFER the Gift to YOU…
And YOU refuse to reach out and TAKE the Gift…

WHO HAS YOUR Gift?
YOU or Me? Me … Right?

WHO does NOT Have YOUR Gift?
YOU or Me? You…Right?

Who has suffered the LOSS of Not Posessing The Gift? … You…Right?

Jesus Bought All men A Gift.

Jesus Offered All men The Gift He Bought For Them.

Any man who Does NOT Reach Out and Take his Gift…
LOSES HAVING his Gift… Right?

That IS HOW a man LOSES his Gift of Salvation…
“FROM Jesus.”…Who Paid For and Offered His Gift of Salvation.

The False teaching (by some) is claiming …
1) they Received their Gift of Salvation From Jesus)…
2) and The man MUST Work to Keep his Gift of Salvation.
3) that the man Who has received his Gift of Salvation from Jesus, is continually in A frenzy of Fear the man might Lose (have taken AWAY), his Salvation.

^^ Utter Lies ^^[/B]





How to assuredly KNOW a man WHO HAS RECEIVED his Gift of Salvation, “Can NEVER Lose (have taken Away), His Gift of Salvation”?

Not mysterious. Simple.

The Requirement, Timing… of WHEN a man
RECEIVES his Salvation Gift!

A man “RECEIVES” his Gift of Salvation…
From Jesus…
* AFTER… the man Willingly Confesses “his Heartful Belief In Jesus”…
* AFTER… the man willingly Lays down unto Death his OWN body For his Belief IN The Lord God. ( Crucified with Jesus)
* AFTER…Gods Heavenly “BOOKS” ( records / Evidence )… Reveal the entry of the man’s NAME …
Written IN the Lambs Book of Life.

How Does… an accounted Dead body…MAKE any Choices… to Reject his Gift?
Not possible.

When does ANY teaching of Gods Word claim a mans NAME in the “Lamb’s Book of Life” can be “erased, blotted out, Stricken”?
Never.

By what POWER, is a man Having Received his Gift of Salvation From Jesus… Keeping his Belief and Gift of Salvation?
The man’s Power? No
Kings of the Earth? No
Influential Celebrities? No
Wealthy people? No.
Parents, Kin-folks? No
Pastors? No
Prophets? No
Afraid Fear? No
By the spirit Power of God “Dwelling IN the man”? Yes.

Who IS the Power of God? Christ
Who IS Christ? Jesus
Who IS Jesus? Gods Word.
What IS Gods Word? Life, Truth.

What does the Truth Teach?

John 14:
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

At WHAT day?
John 14:
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

No. A mans cannot receive Salvation…Keep Salvation by his power or lose his “received” Salvation by any power.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

People have challenged my teachings all the time.
I have no problem with that.
It is your manner that bothers me.

I once knew a nasty person who you remind me of.
He thrived on nasty.
It was weird to witness to.

Look in the mirror. Classic case of projection! You are describing yourself. Nasty person! You are not interested in discussing Scripture. Just throwing ad hominem.

 

[GeneZ]

And boy, is your false fruit easily revealed, because Lord Jesus revealed His future coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation, as written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 as direct statements. Even in 1 Thessalonians 4 Apostle Paul revealed the time of Christ's coming to gather His Church coincides with the future resurrection day, which is the last day of this world.

You really need to repent, and come out of Babylon, of which that false pre-trib rapture theory is designed to lead the deceived to.

OK... you are all from one sect I see.

That has been estabished.

So!?

How could the resurrection day be the end of this world?
When it says that resurrected believers will reign with Him in their resurrrection bodies?
Reign over who? Over what?
Rule with a rod of iron smashing enemies of God during the Millennium?

To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations​

— that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—​

just as I have received authority from my Father. Revelation 2:26-27​

It is not simple. We need to stop thinking it always is.

 

[WPM]

OK... you are all from one sect I see.

That has been estabished.

So!?

How could the resurrection day be the end of this world?
When it says that resurrected believers will reign with Him in their resurrrection bodies?
Reign over who? Over what?
Rule with a rod of iron smashing enemies of God during the Millennium?

To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations​

— that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—​

just as I have received authority from my Father. Revelation 2:26-27​

It is not simple. We need to stop thinking it always is.

Because the symbolic millennial period started with the binding of Satan during the earthly ministry of Jesus. Jesus has defeated Satan. Jesus is reigning now!!!

 

[CrowCross]

In all these: He is coming "with" and "for" His saints. It is the end! The wicked are destroyed and the world is regenerated. It sees a general resurrection and judgment.

You dodged the question again.
Where is the white horse at Jesus ascension?
What was the social economical times like with Noah and Lot? How will that be like..."it's the end!" as you put it.

 

[CrowCross]

The Restrainer is either a or b
a.) The Holy Spirit
b.) Michael the Arch Angel

You forgot C.

The restrainer is the Holy Spirit working through the Believers.

Through the power of the Holy Spirit Believers wrestle against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

When there is no Church on earth to wrestle against the rulers, authorities, cosmic powers and spiritual forces the antichrist has the freedom to do what he wants.

 

[David in NJ]

You forgot C.

The restrainer is the Holy Spirit working through the Believers.

The LORD Jesus Christ rebukes your theory = HE Said so to His Church
Will you believe on every word that God has Spoken???
or will you place your faith in religious men? = Ephesians 4:14

Through the power of the Holy Spirit Believers wrestle against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

This is 100% TRUE

When there is no Church on earth to wrestle against the rulers, authorities, cosmic powers and spiritual forces the antichrist has the freedom to do what he wants.

CLEARLY from the Holy Scriptures this is a man-made false doctrine and thus from the spirit of error!

God commanded the Israelites not to mix His Truth with the ways of the world = and HE commanded His Church the same!

 

[WPM]

You dodged the question again.
Where is the white horse at Jesus ascension?
What was the social economical times like with Noah and Lot? How will that be like..."it's the end!" as you put it.

How many wicked survived in Noah day and in Sodom. None! Jesus said the second coming would be like that. How many wicked survive in Rev 19? None! All flesh is destroyed. Hello! It is the end.

 

[GeneZ]

Because the symbolic millennial period started with the binding of Satan during thd earthly ministry of Jesus. Jesus has defeated Satan. Jesus is reigning now!!!

In that sense?
Of course.
He is always reigning.
He was reigning even as they nailed Him to a cross!

No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined ​

for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they ​

had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 1 Corinthians 2:7-8​

........

 

[GeneZ]

Look in the mirror. Classic case of projection! You are describing yourself. Nasty person! You are not interested in discussing Scripture. Just throwing ad hominem.

It is not hard to see what you do.

Keep talking.

 

[David in NJ]

How many survived in Noah day and in Sodom. None! Jesus said the second coming would be like that. How many survive in Rev 19? None! All flesh is destroyed. Hello! It is the end.

GOOD MORNING,

INDEED, the Day will come when GOD purges the earth of all flesh.

GOD Said that Day comes after the 1,000 Years when Satan is loosed for a little while = Revelation chapter 20

SHALOM

 

[GeneZ]

How many survived in Noah day and in Sodom. None! Jesus said the second coming would be like that. How many survive in Rev 19? None! All flesh is destroyed. Hello! It is the end.

"How many survived in Noah day and in Sodom. None!"

What?
Noah's day = eight survived.

Sodom?
Lot and his family (minus one pillar of salt.)

You truncate reality.
Just like you do the Word.

Your problem is that you are too much in a hurry to be the winner and can't think with what is needed to win.

 

[Taken]

Pretrib fallacies…​

The claim the Lord Fails to Redeem Christs Church BRFORE Great Tribulations Shall be Sent Down From Heaven Upon the Whole Earth…IS the Pre/Trib Fallacy.

2 Cor 1:
[10] Who delivered us from so great a death..
(“Who”) Christ
(“delivered”) Kept From
(“Great Death”) Via Great Tribulation
(“us”) Christ’ Church
…and doth deliver: …
(Continues Delivering NEW members of Christs’ Church)
(“in whom”) …Christ
(“we”) Christs Church
(“trust that he will yet deliver us;”)
Remove His Church FROM the Tribulations and Great Deaths to Be sent down upon the whole Earth.

If you do NOT KNOW…
Who, What, When, Where, Why…Gods Word Applies..TO YOU…
By Default YOU will NOT KNOW the TRUTH of God that applies TO YOU.

Great Trib…
God Will USE the Earth To KILL people ON the Earth.
God Will Allow men OF the Earth to KILL men ON the Earth.
God Will Allow Demons ON the Earth to KILL men ON the Earth.

Before the Last Great Trib…
Christ Will Deliver His Church Up Above The Earth.
Just as God Delivered His Faithful Up Above the Earth, While God Destroyed the Inhabitants upon the Earth, with the Earth, at the Past Time of the First Great Trib sent down from Heaven.

Nothing new under the Sun.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GeneZ]

GOOD MORNING,

INDEED, the Day will come when GOD purges the earth of all flesh.

GOD Said that Day comes after the 1,000 Years when Satan is loosed for a little while = Revelation chapter 20

SHALOM

Trying to be reasonable with him is like speaking to him in a foreign language.
He wants to be the winner before he has really won anything.

It's frustrating when someone's lust pattern is that type.

 

[CrowCross]

Gene,
There are no scriptures that speak of the Bride of Christ as the Restrainer who prevents the revealing of the Antichrist.

2 Thes 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

The narrative is about the RAPTURE...1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him....what do you think that is?

Paul then presents it in different terms....the restrainer is removed at the gathering.

The revealing of the Antichrist is Ordered by GOD Directly!!!

IMPORTANT: The Bride of Christ has ZERO input in this Matter = JESUS Said so specifically!!!

No one disagrees with that.

Acts 1:7
So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

 

[CrowCross]

Even in 1 Thessalonians 4 Apostle Paul revealed the time of Christ's coming to gather His Church coincides with the future resurrection day, which is the last day of this world.

Not true.
I've asked this question and to date have received no logical response.....white horse....
Explain why there is no white horse at the 1 Thes 4 rapture?
The angels in Acts one said Jesus would return in the way He left...Jesus didn't leave on a white horse. Are you saying Jesus left on a white horse?

 

[WPM]

GOOD MORNING,

INDEED, the Day will come when GOD purges the earth of all flesh.

GOD Said that Day comes after the 1,000 Years when Satan is loosed for a little while = Revelation chapter 20

SHALOM

Please answer these questions:

• How many wicked survived in Noah's day?
• How many wicked survived in Sodom?
• How many wicked survive in Rev 19?

 

[WPM]

"How many survived in Noah day and in Sodom. None!"

What?
Noah's day = eight survived.

Sodom?
Lot and his family (minus one pillar of salt.)

You truncate reality.
Just like you do the Word.

Your problem is that you are too much in a hurry to be the winner and can't think with what is needed to win.

No wicked survived. Zero. Nada! Zilch. All the elect were rescued. Hello!

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus Bought All men A Gift.

(Your post would be strengthened if you could present a scripture verse that supports what you said.)

Jesus Offered All men The Gift He Bought For Them.

(present scripture verse)

Any man who Does NOT Reach Out and Take his Gift…
LOSES HAVING his Gift… Right?

(present scripture verse)

 

[David in NJ]

Pretrib fallacies…​

The claim the Lord Fails to Redeem Christs Church BRFORE Great Tribulations Shall be Sent Down From Heaven Upon the Whole Earth…IS the Pre/Trib Fallacy.


(“us”) Christ’ Church
…and doth deliver: …
(Continues Delivering NEW members of Christs’ Church)
(“in whom”) …Christ
(“we”) Christs Church
(“trust that he will yet deliver us;”)
Remove His Church FROM the Tribulations and Great Deaths to Be sent down upon the whole Earth.

If you do NOT KNOW…
Who, What, When, Where, Why…Gods Word Applies..TO YOU…
By Default YOU will NOT KNOW the TRUTH of God that applies TO YOU.

Great Trib…
God Will USE the Earth To KILL people ON the Earth.
God Will Allow men OF the Earth to KILL men ON the Earth.
God Will Allow Demons ON the Earth to KILL men ON the Earth.

Before the Last Great Trib…
Christ Will Deliver His Church Up Above The Earth.
Just as God Delivered His Faithful Up Above the Earth, While God Destroyed the Inhabitants upon the Earth, with the Earth, at the Past Time of the First Great Trib sent down from Heaven.

Nothing new under the Sun.

Glory to God,
Taken

GOOD MORNING,

All True EXCEPT for one IMPORTANT exchange.
So let us make the exchange that GOD Told us that tribulation, even Great Tribulation is not His Wrath upon us.

John 16:1-2 “These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble.
They will put you out of the synagogues;
yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you(on earth) will think that he offers God service.

Revelation 12:10-11 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony,
and they did not love their lives to the death(on earth)

2 Cor 1:
[10] Who delivered us from so great a death..
(“Who”) Christ
(“delivered”) Kept From
(“Great Death”) Via Great Tribulation = Paul and others were delivered DURING their GREAT TRIBULATIONS = NEVER Before them
Acts 14:22 - strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith
and that “through many tribulations it is necessary for us to enter into the kingdom of God.”

Acts 14:22 = Revelation 7:17

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

SHALOM in JESUS our Deliverer from the Wrath to Come