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Featured Proof of the Trinity. No takers?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by justbyfaith, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I agree. However, you would appear to be teaching that the archangel Michael is God Almighty in your doctrine.

    The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Christ. To speak against the human Jesus may or may not be speaking against the Spirit inside of Him.

    He is, more accurately, the sevenfold Spirit of God that identifies the churches in the Book of Revelation.

    There are no mistranslations in the kjv.

    I would call it a solid answer.

    It is not the foolishness of man, but of God (1 Corinthians 1:25).

    I agree on each one of these things; but would add that the Son is the Father while the Father is not the Son; and the Holy Spirit is the Father while the Father is not the Holy Spirit (so I guess that I disagree on that one).

    It is very simple and easy to understand for me. But then, I have received the Holy Ghost through the preferred method of Acts of the Apostles 2:38. Those who do not have the Spirit of God cannot comprehend the things of the Spirit of God, 1 Corinthians 2:14.

    I think that your problem is that you reject the solid answer that is given to you that Jesus is both human and divine and that in some things He is speaking primarily of His humanity...thinking of it as a "cop-out". It is not a cop-out: it is a solid answer that deals with all of your objections perfectly. You are not going to dismiss the truth of this answer that easily (calling it a cop-out is not going to make it go away).

    The Spirit is mentioned as the living water in these verses.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I see that you are gathered with the Mormons on this controversial issue.

    God became obedient to His former self in order to set an example for us.

    Jesus showed the devil that he was wrong to exalt himself in the beginning by showing the true way in humbling Himself rather than exalting Himself.

    They are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6). There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). And no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3).

    When we build a building, it is important that in constructing the second story of the building, we do not demolish the first. Of course, there are some who have a ministry of tearing down that which is not of the Lord (Jeremiah 1:10).

    See 1 Timothy 6:4 and 2 Timothy 2:14. It is to the subverting of the hearers to make arguments and have strife over words. My only answer to this is that I believe that the kjv is the inerrant, inspired word of God; and that my faith in this is an evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1).

    The word is not found there but the concept most certainly is.

    It is a very reasonable doctrine and can be understood; however, for some reason, most people when they come face to face with the reality of it have the tendency in their carnal minds to reject it, calling it modalism because they do not see that it is in all reality the Trinity that is being presented to them. Therefore in rejecting the real Trinity they are forced to construct something that is indeed unreasonable and their only option is to call it incomprehensible. In their defense, Isaiah 55:8-9 does seem to hold water. However in my own life, I find that the true Trinity is both reasonable and simple.

    Yes, in His humanity. Calling the solid answer to this a cop-out is not going to make it go away.

    Again, in His humanity Jesus had a finite human brain. Also, the nature of the earth is that when it is 2:00am in one place on the earth it can be 11:00pm on another day in a different place on the globe in the exact same moment.

    Blasphemy against the human Jesus is forgiveable; because Jesus was human. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to insult the love of God: not so forgiveable.

    Jesus chose to be subordinate to the Father in order to set an example for all of us. And also to reveal to us how we can do the same miracles that He did: by relying on God instead of ourselves.

    However, the Son is called God in Hebrews 1:8-9. Trinity established!

    A little more difficult to explain, but explainable. Maybe in another post.

    See 1 Corinthians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 1:21.

    Jesus as God was not tempted: for He was tempted in His humanity...not in His Deity. Also, how do you explain Matthew 4:7? If it were not possible to tempt the Lord God, no commandment would be needed to prohibit it.

    I said distinct not separate, like my spirit is distinct but not separate from my soul and my body.

    Someone speaks against the human Jesus, that is forgiveable, they may not have all the facts: but if you insult the love of God by calling it satanic there is no forgiveness for you. And I am saying to you unequivocably that the love of God has nothing to do with satan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    There are certain passages hidden in Isaiah (which if you read the whole book of Isaiah you will find in due process of time) that tell us that there is no God besides the LORD and that He is the only true God. In other words, there is not a second God created by an eternal mirror that descended to become Jesus. Jesus was begotten in the incarnation, is my testimony on the truth of this matter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 11:25 "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

    here's one to answer Matthew 11:25. Acts 17:24 "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands".

    now this, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".

    now this one, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

    now if this is not the SAME person, then the bible has some contridictions.

    PS I need to know how one is using the term "Son", I hope not in a biological sense concering the Spirit NATURE. but in a metaphorically way of prominent moral characteristics, without descendants, and without reference to sex.
     
  5. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Father, Son and Holy Spirit are manifestly revealed in the New Testament: all Three Persons of the Godhead. There are many references; it's a fundamental truth.
     
  6. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    The Son indeed always was (John 1).
     
  7. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    I got a good laugh out of that one.
     
  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    A soul is one PERSON.
    Definition of Person, a human being regarded as an individual. Supportive scripture, 1 Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”

    well what about God, do the Spirit have a "Soul", well let the record speak,
    Isaiah 42:1 "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles".

    Hmmmmmmm...... seems like God has a Soul, and from the verse it's "ONLY" ONE.
    definition Time: Soul in the Hebrew,
    H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh (neh'-fesh) n-f.
    1. (properly) a breathing creature, i.e. animal.
    2. (abstractly) of vitality.
    {used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)}

    definition #2. defines the soul that is "Abstract" and God is ABSTRACT, meaning "Spirit". so what is "vitality?" the state of being strong and active; energy.
    Well God is a being, or the only being, and he's strong, and active, and he's energy.

    ok that God. and the verse here in Isaiah states that this Soul, the "I" is an individual "PERSON", not two or three separate but ONE individual PERSON.

    well. and another well, well, well.

    any trinity concept is gone.

    but the trillion dollar and 42 cent question is, "how is the Lord Jesus the ONE God, and is EQUAL to him, meaning God who is a Spirit according to John 4:24a, but is his Son?....... o_O

    I cain't wait to hear any answers. open to ANYONE to answer.


    THESE SCRIPTURES HAS JUST ELIMINATED ANY TRINITY.
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Indeed...for He was preincarnate as the Father...Isaiah 9:6.

    Also, in meditating on John 1:1 a scripture that bears witness on the issue is Ephesians 4:10; in the understanding that Jesus ascended to again become outside of time (Isaiah 57:15).
     
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Bring forth your evidences.
     
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Not from my perspective.
     
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  12. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    The Isaiah 9.6 reference - Father of eternity - speaks of the Son's eternal preeminence, rather than implying that the Personality of Father and Son - as brought out in the New Testament - were not distinct.
     
  13. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    People can deny and defy but Father, Son and Holy Spirit remain strongly present in Scripture.
     
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  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The alternate interpretation does not negate or refute the primary one. And yes they are distinct...however they are not separate...for that would amount to Tritheism.
     
  15. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    ok, lets see. a person is defind as a human being regarded as an individual.
    Isaiah 42:1 proves that "I" and "MY" in the vers is ONE "PERSON".
     
  16. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    it does, for the Lord Jesus is the ONLY eternal God, supportive scripture,
    1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

    1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    immortality: "the ability to live forever; eternal life". and if he's the "ONLY" one who has it then where do that leave the other two person in your Godhead? please answer.
     
  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Yes they are one Person...but you have to see that the Father remained behind in eternity at the same "time" that He descended to become a Man...thus the Father was in heaven and the Son on earth.
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    They are the same Person; yet distinct from each other.
     
  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    If you are Oneness then you are being self-defeating in this answer.
     
  20. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    In the New Testament, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are clearly three Persons.
     
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