Proof that Jesus is God

[keithr]

In verse 1, John says of the Word, that He was “in the beginning”. This “beginning” is not the same as Genesis 1:1, “in the beginning God Created…”, which is the beginning of the Creation of the universe.

What make you say that it's not the same beginning? "Eternity past" is not a beginning. What is this beginning referring to if not the beginning of God's creation?

Interestingly, the Jehovah's Witnesses also produced the Emphatic Diaglott, by Benjamin Wilson. In the 1864 edition, John 1:1 in the right-hand text reads, “and the Logos was God”.

The copy of the Diaglott that I have (1865, downloaded from onlinebible.net) reads, "In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word".

 

[Brakelite]

That is a misquote, or deliberate falsifying of Scripture (I'd prefer to assume it was a mistake). You didn't give a Bible reference, so I'll do it for you:

John 1:18 (WEB): No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.​

It does not say that Jesus is God. "In the bosom of the Father" indicates that God and Jesus had an intimate, loving relationship. Their relationship is clearly stated - Jesus was God's one and only son. Note John later said:

John 6:46) Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God. He has seen the Father.​

which also does not say Jesus is God, but it's clear that "he who is from God" is not God.


Surely you're not claiming that because Jesus came down from heaven that he must be God? Satan came down from heaven too - do you think he is God?!


And yet neither of those verses teach or prove that Jesus was God, and definitely don't teach the Trinity doctrine.


No, it isn't how our mind is renewed, that's done by correctly understanding the verses, which you have not done for the above verses.

1 John 4:14-15 (WEB): We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him, and he in God.

Luke 10:22) Turning to the disciples, he said, “All things have been delivered to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is, except the Father, and who the Father is, except the Son, and he to whomever the Son desires to reveal him.”

You admitted that Jesus, before His incarnation as a man, was had an intimate relationship as a Son, with His Father. Now we know that everything God does, is perfect and good. The Son, was begotten of the Father. Begotten means one born with the same nature and character as that which have Him birth. Like begets like... Not only a base law of creation, but surely even more so with God's only Son, not created, but begotten? If a man begets a man... And a cow begets a cow... And a lizard begets a lizard... What precisely did God the Father beget if not God in the person of His Son?

 

[BroRando]

Jesus is the Beginning
Firstborn of All Creation
Preeminent--ahead of the rest
Jesus is Begotten which means brought forth as with labor pains

Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago. I was installed From the start, from times earlier than the earth. I was brought forth, When there were no springs overflowing with water. Before the mountains were set in place, Before the hills, I was brought forth," (Proverbs 8:22-24)

 

[Brakelite]

Amen! In John 14:28, Jesus said that the Father was greater than He and not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man who was in a lower position (Jesus here is speaking from His humanity) "..made for a little while lower than the angels.." (Hebrews 2:9)

Yet in John 10:30, Jesus said, "I and the Father are one." Jesus here is speaking from His divinity and the Jews knew exactly what He was claiming as we can see as read on. 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

I would suggest the humility and self deprecation, obedience, and surrender of Christ to the Father was not because Christ was human, but because He was His Father's Son. This submissive attitude didn't have it's beginning in Bethlehem, but in heaven when He agreed to come to die.

 

[keithr]

Amen! In John 14:28, Jesus said that the Father was greater than He and not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man who was in a lower position (Jesus here is speaking from His humanity) "..made for a little while lower than the angels.." (Hebrews 2:9)

Yet in John 10:30, Jesus said, "I and the Father are one." Jesus here is speaking from His divinity and the Jews knew exactly what He was claiming as we can see as read on. 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

And you believe the error of the Jews rather than believing Jesus? Believe Jesus' reply!

34) Jesus answered them, “Isn’t it written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods?’
35) If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can’t be broken),
36) do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God?’
37) If I don’t do the works of my Father, don’t believe me.
38) But if I do them, though you don’t believe me, believe the works; that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

What make you say that it's not the same beginning? "Eternity past" is not a beginning. What is this beginning referring to if not the beginning of God's creation?


The copy of the Diaglott that I have (1865, downloaded from onlinebible.net) reads, "In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word".

 

[Gary Urban]

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Yes the word that worked in the Son of man was the word of God not the word of the Son of man. Jesus as the chief apostle and cornerstone of the church as an apostles was sent with the word of the father. Jesus said to the father. . "not a I will but you" the greater (positions. The work of two . Loving authority the father working with and in the weaker vessel in perfect harmony and submissiveness (Jesus the Son of man having no power of his own) . The Government of peace as His understanding. . freely given to us.

 

[kcnalp]

2. Jesus is the Word, and the Word was Divine (John 1:1c).

Amen! John 1 "The Word was God"!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

What make you say that it's not the same beginning? "Eternity past" is not a beginning. What is this beginning referring to if not the beginning of God's creation?

Because the Creation of the universe by "The Word", is first mentioned in verse 3, "all things were brought into being (εγενετο) by Him". So the " εν αρχη" of verse 1, precedes this. Also, the use of "ην", in the imperfect, shows that timeless existence of "the Word", which is clear evidence that He could not have had "a beginning"!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Yes the word that worked in the Son of man was the word of God not the word of the Son of man. Jesus as the chief apostle and cornerstone of the church as an apostles was sent with the word of the father. Jesus said to the father. . "not a I will but you" the greater (positions. The work of two . Loving authority the father working with and in the weaker vessel in perfect harmony and submissiveness (Jesus the Son of man having no power of his own) . The Government of peace as His understanding. . freely given to us.

Jesus Christ IS YHWH, The Eternal, Self-Existing, Unchanging, Creator God!

 

[kcnalp]

Looks like ReChoired is having trouble in finding a single scripture that says 'three separate persons make up one God'.
The trinity doctrine is not Christian, therefore, you will not find the phrase in any Bible.

How many Gods do you have?

Gen 1 God said let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Amen! John 1 "The Word was God"!

"Divine" is an adjective, and the Greek, it is "θείος". In John 1:1, the Greek word used is, "θεος", which is a noun.

 

[kcnalp]

"Divine" is an adjective, and the Greek, it is "θείος". In John 1:1, the Greek word used is, "θεος", which is a noun.

I was simply pointing out that he admitted Jesus is the Word. Several here deny that Jesus is the Word.

 

[Cooper]

I don't think you are. Though I'm hardly surprised when I reread my post... Full of typos.
You compared what you call the tripartite nature of man with the theory of the trinity. I suggest that both are mere human devisings and the comparison you make valid only on that basis. Their common basis in error.
First, the Godhead is not I believe one substance, as described in the creeds. Nor are they Co-equal, as commonly taught because such denies the real and literal Father/Son relationship. This however, despite upsetting most of the die hard trinitarians, does not exclude three divine Beings, all united in purpose and character... Comprising one God.
As for man. The creation account in Genesis gives explicit detail as to how we are formed, and our final make up. Dust plus spirit equals soul. Not dust plus soul plus spirit.

There are lots of scriptures that show us Jesus is God. I can show you some if you like. Father and Son simply identify the presence of God in heaven and Gods presence on earth. In reality, it is the same omnipresent God, so I can understand peoples confusion, they are looking for two Gods when in reality there is only One God, not three, it cannot be any other way, but seeing as no man can see God and live there needed to be a covering as in the tabernacle hidden from sight. Likewise God was in the rock that Moses struck while remaining invisible. God is always with us and I find that frightening in one sense but reassuring in another. He is just not visible except for 33 years, and then He was hidden from sight by the flesh, so he showed himself through the miracles and people believed in their thousands. I need to go, things to do. Speak to you later.
.

 

[kcnalp]

There are lots of scriptures that show us Jesus is God. I can show you some if you like. Father and Son simply identify the presence of God in heaven and Gods presence on earth. In reality, it is the same omnipresent God, so I can understand peoples confusion, they are looking for two Gods when in reality there is only One God, not three, it cannot be any other way, but seeing as no man can see God and live there needed to be a covering as in the tabernacle hidden from sight. Likewise God was in the rock that Moses struck while remaining invisible. God is always with us and I find that frightening in one sense but reassuring in another. He is just not visible except for 33 years, and then He was hidden from sight by the flesh, so he showed himself through the miracles and people believed in their thousands. I need to go, things to do. Speak to you later.

Which is referring to the Father. God was seen in the OT several times. And so it would have to be Jesus Who was seen.

Exodus 6:2-3 (NKJV)
2 And God spoke to Moses and said to him: "I am the LORD. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I was not known to them.

 

[robert derrick]

Jesus is the Word, and the Word was Divine...

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Divine, and the Word was Divine.

They said they would do a careful study of the Greek to show that what is plainly written isn't really so plain, and here it is. As I have said, they are not a serious people to be taken seriously, I mean this silliness doesn't even rate as sleight of hand.

"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive." (Eph 4)

There's nothing cunning nor crafty about this childish stupidity. It's an insult to even childlike intelligence. Before these clowns started showing themselves for the immature posers that they are, I at least had some level of respect for them as a serious cult. Now, I know they aren't even that.

"In the beginning Divine created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Divine moved upon the face of the waters. And Divine said, Let there be light: and there was light."

Oh no no, I do err. When Scripture is speaking plainly about God as being God, then it has been determined, that we can translate Him as God, but when it is plainly written that Jesus is the true God, then it must be translated as Divine...

"...and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true Divine, and eternal life." (1 John 5)

Pretty pathetic. Like playing advanced tennis with bad amateurs, not even worth the effort.

 

[BroRando]

How many Gods do you have?

According to Jesus, he says that his Father in the only true God in (John 17:3).

 

[robert derrick]

Jehovah is the true God
To believe otherwise is idolatry

Jesus is the true God
To believe otherwise is pagan idolatry.

 

[BroRando]

Jesus is the Word, and the Word was Divine...

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Divine, and the Word was Divine.

The reason that trinitarians reject the Deity of Christ is that it is a Divine Creation as in being brought forth.
The Godhead is a Divine Creation that is why it is in the feminine sense. That is why John1:1c is speaking about the Words' Divinity.

Strong's Concordance
theotés: deity
Original Word: θεότης, ητος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theotés
Phonetic Spelling: (theh-ot'-ace)
Short Definition: deity, Godhead
Definition: deity, Godhead.

 

[BroRando]

Jehovah is the true God
To believe otherwise is idolatry

Jesus is the true God
To believe otherwise is pagan idolatry.

What happened? I thought the three nameless persons were Gods?