prophecy questions about God's Timelines - invitation...

[Davy]

Yeah, that would be the Antichristian system of Catholicism's (universal) vicarius christi:

For instance, 'pope' Francis I (Jorge Bergoglio) stated in Laudato Si:

New World Order, the 'gospel' of "change" and "revolution":

"... The urgent challenge to protect our common home includes a concern to bring the whole human family together to seek a sustainable and integral development, for we know that things can change. ..."​

​

"... We require a new and universal solidarity. ..."​

​

"... We need to strengthen the conviction that we are one single human family. ..."​

​

"... An authentic humanity, calling for a new synthesis ..."​

​

"... All of this shows the urgent need for us to move forward in a bold cultural revolution. ..."​

​

"... We need to develop a new synthesis ..."​

​

"... Others will then no longer be seen as strangers, but as part of a “we” which all of us are working to create. ..."​

​

"... Interdependence obliges us to think of one world with a common plan. ..."​

​

"... A global consensus is essential for confronting the deeper problems, which cannot be resolved by unilateral actions on the part of individual countries. ..." - Laudato si' (24 May 2015) | Francis​

No Historicist theories of men please.

It is NOT simply about a pope and the Catholic Church. There is a World Socialist movement among the Protestant Churches probably more powerful than the Catholic Church.

It is about those in the Greater Mysteries of initiation who worship the devil, those working behind the scenes through secret fraternities that also have many 'deceived' Protestant Christian pastors in their membership.

It is about the 'false Jews' that Jesus forewarned about that are the "synagogue of Satan", when speaking to His elect of Rev.2:9 and Rev.3:9, and said He will make them to come worship Him at their feet in the future.

See Proofs Of A Conspiracy, by John Robison (1798), and Tragedy and Hope, by Georgetown history professor Carrol Quigley.

 

[Davy]

Even if one does not read Hebrew (which is unnecessary), but simply the English, carefully, and with the bible in mind in other places, which shed light upon these events, we can know for certain, that the "prince that shall come" was indeed Jesus Christ. How can we know from the English (KJB)?​

​

Nah, that thinking above is BOGUS.

The problem with saying, "and the people of the prince that shall come..." is about Lord Jesus is that specific "prince" in that Daniel 9:26 verse is about the same one in the Daniel 9:27 verse that ends the daily sacrifices in Jerusalem and places the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in the temple.

Dan 9:26-27
26 "After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end.
27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him."
New Living Translation

The NLT is very... accurate on those above events. Just like the KJV, and many other Bible versions, the idea of the "he" in Daniel 9:27 has to go back and pick up the subject of that "prince" (Titus) that destroys the city and sanctuary. That is NOT... about Lord Jesus Christ. That is about the Roman general Titus as a 'type' for the final Antichrist. And the Daniel 9:27 verse is about the final Antichrist that is to come at the end of this world.

And don't try to play games on me with men's silly seminary doctrines, trying to say I am a Futurist by that above view I have written. I am NOT a Futurist. I am not ANY OF MEN'S SILLY SEMINARY CATEGORIES. I stick to God's Word as written, so don't try your stupid PASTING UP HEBREW TO TRY AND MAKE THE ILLITERATE HERE THINK YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST PUSHING THE SAME JUDAIZER LIES THAT TREKSON HAS PUSHED ABOUT THE DANIEL 9 SCRIPTURE.

 

[covenantee]

Is a "catholic" ideology, not taught in scripture.

Untrue.

Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho
"I and many others are of this opinion [premillennialism], and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise."

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I'm done

Guess my 'thread' is down the tubes = eschatological experts all disagreeing with each other?:
I humbly turn it over to them, as "back on topic" = 70 AD = all prophecies have been fulfilled,
and we are now dwelling in the new heavens and new EARTH, even though:

1) Where is it recorded that "this was fulfilled"?:

2Pe 3:10-13 "But the day of the LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with
fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought
ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the
coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved,
and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His
promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."​

2) Surely, the SIN-cursed earth STILL exists and (unless one lives in a fantasy world),
one need just hear the news and look around their own neighborhoods to see:

2Ti_3:13 "But EVIL men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving,​

and being deceived."​

​

How, Exactly is that "a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness"?​

3) Surely, CH Spurgeon and others mis-speak saying we are now in eternity ↑, eh?:
(oops, I forgot about symbolism ), so, when Exactly was the following "fulfilled"?:

Rev 20:11-15 "And I saw a Great White Throne, and Him that sat on it,
from Whose Face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was
found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before

God (The LORD Jesus [not an archangel]); and the books were opened: and
another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were Judged
out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.​

​

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered
up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according
to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the
second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was
cast into the lake of fire."​

Why would not a Literal Fulfilment of this (ALL "EVIL Unbelievers" Judged/Condemned
For ETERNITY) 'bring about This'?:

Rev 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven ​

and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." ​

Surely, you experts jest, as I (and many others). with the 'Sound mind' that God Gave us
(2 Timothy 1:7), know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, this 'has NOT been fulfilled Yet'!!!

And, when God Does So, Then, we WILL BE In Eternity, Correct?
----------------------------
?The only Conclusion I can make of this Totally symbolic fulfilment of these literal Scriptures is:

a figurative of someone's imagination?​

I now humbly turn this thread over to those (prophecy experts), to continue in
their expertise, as they wish...

So, with that, I bid all adieu, according to Romans 16:17...

@Truth7t7 you also gone? I will have no part in: "biting and devouring one another"
(like the 'Triune GodHead' threads) = Maybe the moderators will close this thread soon???
-----------------------------
Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

 

[covenantee]

Nah, that thinking above is BOGUS.

The problem with saying, "and the people of the prince that shall come..." is about Lord Jesus is that specific "prince" in that Daniel 9:26 verse is about the same one in the Daniel 9:27 verse that ends the daily sacrifices in Jerusalem and places the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in the temple.

Dan 9:26-27
26 "After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end.
27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him."
New Living Translation

The NLT is very... accurate on those above events. Just like the KJV, and many other Bible versions, the idea of the "he" in Daniel 9:27 has to go back and pick up the subject of that "prince" (Titus) that destroys the city and sanctuary. That is NOT... about Lord Jesus Christ. That is about the Roman general Titus as a 'type' for the final Antichrist. And the Daniel 9:27 verse is about the final Antichrist that is to come at the end of this world.

And don't try to play games on me with men's silly seminary doctrines, trying to say I am a Futurist by that above view I have written. I am NOT a Futurist. I am not ANY OF MEN'S SILLY SEMINARY CATEGORIES. I stick to God's Word as written, so don't try your stupid PASTING UP HEBREW TO TRY AND MAKE THE ILLITERATE HERE THINK YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST PUSHING THE SAME JUDAIZER LIES THAT TREKSON HAS PUSHED ABOUT THE DANIEL 9 SCRIPTURE.

There is no "antichrist" in the text. That is modernist dispensational futurist delusion.

There is no "Titus" in the text. That is modernist dispensational futurist delusion.

There is only one individual identified as a prince in the passage. He is Messiah.

You're spouting the classic Riberan Jesuitan counter-reformation counterfeit futurism of the apostate papacy.

 

[Christian Gedge]

I am about to quote some of these early church statements shortly. I hope that we can look at them objectively without the unnecessary comments about the reformers. I will show that 7-year weeks were the understanding from the very beginning in the church.

Sorry to keep you waiting. Lets start with Irenaeus (140-202 AD) As we can see, he lived about 1400 years before the reformers were even thought of. And yes, he considers the 'weeks' to be that of years - not days. Also, please notice: Irenaeus alludes to an abomination taking place following Christs sacrifice. Guess what that was?

"And then he (Daniel) points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: ‘And in the midst of the week,’ he says, ‘the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation shall be brought into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.’ Now three years and six months constitute the half-week." (Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 25, Sec. 4)​

 

[covenantee]

Sorry to keep you waiting. Lets start with Irenaeus (140-202 AD) As we can see, he lived about 1400 years before the reformers were even thought of. And yes, he considers the 'weeks' to be that of years - not days. Also, please notice: Irenaeus alludes to an abomination taking place following Christs sacrifice. Guess what that was?

And then he (Daniel) points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: ‘And in the midst of the week,’ he says, ‘the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation shall be brought into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.’ Now three years and six months constitute the half-week. (Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 25, Sec. 4)​

Irenaeus got the years right.

But he neglected to read Luke 21:20 to identify the abomination of desolation.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Irenaeus got the years right.

But he neglected to read Luke 21:20 to identify the abomination of desolation.

I don't think Irenaeus *neglected* Luke 21:20. Some of the the Church fathers saw the 'abomination' as the re-starting of animal sacrifice after Christ had finished it. For example EUSEBIUS (263-339 AD)

"Half way through this (70th) week, during which He confirmed the said Covenant with many, the sacrifice and libation was taken away, and the abomination of desolation began, for in the middle of this week after the three-and-a-half days of His Teaching, at the time when He suffered, the Veil of the Temple was torn asunder from the top to the bottom, so that in effect from that time sacrifice and libation were taken away, and the abomination of desolation stood in the holy place, inasmuch as the Being had left them desolate, Who had been from time immemorial till that day the guardian and protector of the place. For it is fitting to believe that up to the Saviour's Passion there was some Divine Power guarding the Temple and the Holy of Holies." (Demonstratio Evangelica, Book 8 Chapter 2 – From Daniel)​

What they are saying, is that it was an "overspreading abomination" lasting from AD 30 to AD 70.

 

[jeffweeder]

Guess my 'thread' is down the tubes = eschatological experts all disagreeing with each other?:
I humbly turn it over to them, as "back on topic" = 70 AD = all prophecies have been fulfilled,
and we are now dwelling in the new heavens and new EARTH, even though:

1) Where is it recorded that "this was fulfilled"?:

2Pe 3:10-13 "But the day of the LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which​

the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with​

fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.​

​

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought​

ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the​

coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved,​

and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His​

promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."​

2) Surely, the SIN-cursed earth STILL exists and (unless one lives in a fantasy world),
one need just hear the news and look around their own neighborhoods to see:

2Ti_3:13 "But EVIL men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving,​

and being deceived."​

​

How, Exactly is that "a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness"?​

3) Surely, CH Spurgeon and others mis-speak saying we are now in eternity ↑, eh?:
(oops, I forgot about symbolism ), so, when Exactly was the following "fulfilled"?:

Rev 20:11-15 "And I saw a Great White Throne, and Him that sat on it,​

from Whose Face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was​

found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before​

​

God (The LORD Jesus [not an archangel]); and the books were opened: and​

another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were Judged​

out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.​

​

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered​

up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according​

to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the​

second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was​

cast into the lake of fire."​

Why would not a Literal Fulfilment of this (ALL "EVIL Unbelievers" Judged/Condemned
For ETERNITY) 'bring about This'?:

Rev 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven ​

and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." ​

Surely, you experts jest, as I (and many others). with the 'Sound mind' that God Gave us
(2 Timothy 1:7), know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, this 'has NOT been fulfilled Yet'!!!

And, when God Does So, Then, we WILL BE In Eternity, Correct?
----------------------------
?The only Conclusion I can make of this Totally symbolic fulfilment of these literal Scriptures is:

a figurative of someone's imagination?​

I now humbly turn this thread over to those (prophecy experts), to continue in
their expertise, as they wish...

So, with that, I bid all adieu, according to Romans 16:17...

@Truth7t7 you also gone? I will have no part in: "biting and devouring one another"
(like the 'Triune GodHead' threads) = Maybe the moderators will close this thread soon???
-----------------------------
Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

View attachment 29056

Hi GA
Clearly has not happened yet.
All Things will get so much better.


21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away (vanished), and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, arrayed like a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and then I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “See! The tabernacle of God is among men, and He will live among them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them [as their God,] 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be death; there will no longer be sorrow and anguish, or crying, or pain; for the former order of things has passed away.”

5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true [they are accurate, incorruptible, and trustworthy].” 6 And He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I will give [water] from the fountain of the water of life without cost. 7 He who overcomes [the world by adhering faithfully to Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior] will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.


1Cor 2
“Things which the eye has not seen and the ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him [who hold Him in affectionate reverence, who obey Him, and who gratefully recognize the benefits that He has bestowed].”
10 For God has unveiled them and revealed them to us through the [Holy] Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things [diligently], even [sounding and measuring] the [profound] depths of God [the divine counsels and things far beyond human understanding].

 

[covenantee]

I don't think Irenaeus *neglected* Luke 21:20. Some of the the Church fathers saw the 'abomination' as the re-starting of animal sacrifice after Christ had finished it. For example EUSEBIUS (263-339 AD)

"Half way through this (70th) week, during which He confirmed the said Covenant with many, the sacrifice and libation was taken away, and the abomination of desolation began, for in the middle of this week after the three-and-a-half days of His Teaching, at the time when He suffered, the Veil of the Temple was torn asunder from the top to the bottom, so that in effect from that time sacrifice and libation were taken away, and the abomination of desolation stood in the holy place, inasmuch as the Being had left them desolate, Who had been from time immemorial till that day the guardian and protector of the place. For it is fitting to believe that up to the Saviour's Passion there was some Divine Power guarding the Temple and the Holy of Holies." (Demonstratio Evangelica, Book 8 Chapter 2 – From Daniel)​

What they are saying, is that it was an "overspreading abomination" lasting from AD 30 to AD 70.

Yes, that was Irenaeus' understanding. However, he derived that understanding independent of Luke 21:20, for he makes no mention of the Roman armies referenced in that verse.

There are three inter-corroborating texts: Daniel 9:26-27, Matthew 24:15, and Luke 21:20. Matthew 24:15 refers to Daniel 9:26-27, which describes the people of the prince who, along with the Jews themselves, were the Roman armies, who were prince Messiah's instruments of judgment and destruction and desolation upon the city and sanctuary and nation. Luke corroborates with his reference to the Roman armies, and also corroborates Matthew 24:15 as its synoptic parallel.

It is clear from these texts that the Roman armies were the desolator. They were also the abomination, for they bore into battle idolatrous pagan ensigns which they worshipped as gods, and which as graven images were profoundly offensive and abominable to the Jews. Accounts are found in the works of Josephus.

Irenaeus got some of it right, but not all.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Accounts are found in the works of Josephus.

Irenaeus got some of it right, but not all.

mmm, Josephus had to be careful what he said in front of the Romans. Anyway, here is another quote concerning the 'weeks of years.' Actually all futurists will love this one. ORIGEN (184-253 AD)

"The weeks of years, also, which the prophet Daniel had predicted, extending to the leadership of Christ, have been fulfilled." ​

(Against Celsus, Book 4.22)​

 

[Ronald D Milam]

It appears you have been called into fictional prophesy, but certainly not biblical prophesy.

Its appears you are troll, you never rebut, you just run a quip show. I destroy your every point and you then dodge with a quip. LOL Your points all git destroyed.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Pro_25:14 Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.

2Pe_2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

Jud_1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

This is soooooooooo ignorant, me telling my calling from God is not bragging, LOL. You do understand how ignorant this is right? WEIRD.

 

[Truth7t7]

Guess my 'thread' is down the tubes = eschatological experts all disagreeing with each other?:
I humbly turn it over to them, as "back on topic" = 70 AD = all prophecies have been fulfilled,
and we are now dwelling in the new heavens and new EARTH, even though:

1) Where is it recorded that "this was fulfilled"?:

2Pe 3:10-13 "But the day of the LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which​

the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with​

fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.​

​

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought​

ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the​

coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved,​

and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His​

promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."​

2) Surely, the SIN-cursed earth STILL exists and (unless one lives in a fantasy world),
one need just hear the news and look around their own neighborhoods to see:

2Ti_3:13 "But EVIL men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving,​

and being deceived."​

​

How, Exactly is that "a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness"?​

3) Surely, CH Spurgeon and others mis-speak saying we are now in eternity ↑, eh?:
(oops, I forgot about symbolism ), so, when Exactly was the following "fulfilled"?:

Rev 20:11-15 "And I saw a Great White Throne, and Him that sat on it,​

from Whose Face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was​

found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before​

​

God (The LORD Jesus [not an archangel]); and the books were opened: and​

another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were Judged​

out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.​

​

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered​

up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according​

to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the​

second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was​

cast into the lake of fire."​

Why would not a Literal Fulfilment of this (ALL "EVIL Unbelievers" Judged/Condemned
For ETERNITY) 'bring about This'?:

Rev 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven ​

and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." ​

Surely, you experts jest, as I (and many others). with the 'Sound mind' that God Gave us
(2 Timothy 1:7), know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, this 'has NOT been fulfilled Yet'!!!

And, when God Does So, Then, we WILL BE In Eternity, Correct?
----------------------------
?The only Conclusion I can make of this Totally symbolic fulfilment of these literal Scriptures is:

a figurative of someone's imagination?​

I now humbly turn this thread over to those (prophecy experts), to continue in
their expertise, as they wish...

So, with that, I bid all adieu, according to Romans 16:17...

@Truth7t7 you also gone? I will have no part in: "biting and devouring one another"
(like the 'Triune GodHead' threads) = Maybe the moderators will close this thread soon???
-----------------------------
Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

View attachment 29056

I'm done responding to an individual poster who claims Michael The Arch Angel is Jesus Christ, not the thread

To answer your question above?

"Future" Jesus returns in fire and final judgment, dissolving this earth by fire (The Mortal End)

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

"The weeks of years, also, which the prophet Daniel had predicted, extending to the leadership of Christ, have been fulfilled." ​

(Against Celsus, Book 4.22)​

I was unable to find your quote described above In book IV Chapter 22 as referenced, perhaps you can help me find it?​

Origen Against Celsus.​

Book I. (71 chapters) - الترجمة العربية
Book II. (78 chapters)
Book III. (81 chapters)
Book IV. (99 chapters)
Elucidation.
Book V. (65 chapters)
Book VI. (81 chapters)
Book VII. (70 chapters)
Book VIII. (76 chapters)​

​

Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol IV:​

Book IV.​

Early Church Fathers Index Previous Next

• Chapter XXII.

But, according to Celsus, "the Christians, making certain additional statements to those of the Jews, assert that the Son of God has been already sent on account of the sins of the Jews; and that the Jews hating chastised Jesus, and given him gall to drink, have brought upon themselves the divine wrath." And any one who likes may convict this statement of falsehood, if it be not the case that the whole Jewish nation was overthrown within one single generation after Jesus had undergone these sufferings at their hands. For forty and two years, I think, after the date of the crucifixion of Jesus, did the destruction of Jerusalem take place. Now it has never been recorded, since the Jewish nation began to exist, that they have been expelled for so long a period from their venerable temple-worship82 and service, and enslaved by more powerful nations; for if at any time they appeared to be abandoned because of their sins, they were notwithstanding visited (by God),83 and returned to their own country, and recovered their possessions, and performed unhindered the observances of their law. One fact, then, which proves that Jesus was something divine and sacred,84 is this, that Jews should have suffered on His account now for a lengthened time calamities of such severity. And we say with confidence that they will never be restored to their former condition.85 For they committed a crime of the most unhallowed kind, in conspiring against the Saviour of the human race in that city where they offered up to God a worship containing the symbols of mighty mysteries. It accordingly behoved that city where Jesus underwent these sufferings to perish utterly, and the Jewish nation to be overthrown, and the invitation to happiness offered them by God to pass to others,-the Christians, I mean, to whom has come the doctrine of a pure and holy worship, and who have obtained new laws, in harmony with the established constitution in all countries;86 seeing those which were formerly imposed, as on a single nation which was ruled by princes of its own race and of similar manners,87 could not now be observed in all their entireness.

 

[Christian Gedge]

I was unable to find your quote described above In book IV Chapter 22 as referenced, perhaps you can help me find it?

Sorry, not 'Against Celsus.' My reference should have been De Principiis, Book 4, Chapter 1, Sec. 5.

But while I have your ear, here is another even earlier writing, EPISTLE of BARNABUS (80-120 AD)

"Let us inquire, then, if there still is a temple of God. There is--where He himself declared He would make and finish it. For it is written, "And it shall come to pass, when the week is completed, the temple of God shall be built in glory in the name of the Lord." (Chapter 16 - The Spiritual Temple of God)​

Barnabus was, of course, referring to the 'spiritual temple' which was completed at the end of the 70th week when the gospel was opened to the Gentiles. (AD34)

 

[Jay Ross]

Guess my 'thread' is down the tubes

It went down the tubes when the truth was ignored and man's understanding dominated, including your own. #5 explained who the Prince who was to come was and in that explanation i wrote about the spiritual entity, the Little Horn as being the prince in Daniel 9:26b in answer to your question. You must have me on ignore if you did not read what I had written in that post.

 

[Truth7t7]

Sorry, not 'Against Celsus.' My reference should have been De Principiis, Book 4, Chapter 1, Sec. 5.

But while I have your ear, here is another even earlier writing, EPISTLE of BARNABUS (80-120 AD)

"Let us inquire, then, if there still is a temple of God. There is--where He himself declared He would make and finish it. For it is written, "And it shall come to pass, when the week is completed, the temple of God shall be built in glory in the name of the Lord." (Chapter 16 - The Spiritual Temple of God)​

Barnabus was, of course, referring to the 'spiritual temple' which was completed at the end of the 70th week when the gospel was opened to the Gentiles. (AD34)

Scribe (A) is the writer of the Epistle of Barnabas, thats found within Codex Sinaiticus, loks like he coudn't spel veery good, wit soem unuzuel serius mistkes?​

The Sinaiticus Manuscript And Origen are both associated with the Alexandrian "Philosophical" school

Origen who wrote "De Principiis" was banished for his many heresies, sorta like a modern day (Jehovahs Witness) in that Jesus wasn't God in the flesh, also pre-existence of souls (Mormonism), and universalism, in that at some point even Satan would be saved (Mormonism) just a few mentions of his many heresies, add to that his week/years teachings

Jesus Is The Lord

Wikipedia: Codex Sinaiticus​

Scribes and correctors​

Tischendorf believed four separate scribes copied the work (whom he named A, B, C and D), and five correctors amended portions (whom he designated a, b, c, d and e). He posited one of the correctors was contemporaneous with the original scribes, and the others worked during the sixth and seventh centuries. After Milne and Skeat's reinvestigation, it is now agreed Tischendorf was incorrect, as scribe C never existed.[27]: 22–50  According to Tischendorf, scribe C wrote the poetic books of the Old Testament. These are written in a different format from the rest of the manuscript – they appear in two columns (the rest of books is in four columns), written stichometrically. Tischendorf probably interpreted the different formatting as indicating the existence of another scribe.[13]: 22–50, 12–13  The three remaining scribes are still identified by the letters Tischendorf gave them: A, B, and D.[13]: 22–50, 12–13  There were in fact more correctors, with at least seven (a, b, c, ca, cb, cc, e).[5]

Modern analysis identifies three scribes:

• Scribe A wrote most of the historical and poetical books of the Old Testament; almost the whole of the New Testament; and the Epistle of Barnabas
• Scribe B was responsible for the Prophets and for the Shepherd of Hermas
• Scribe D wrote the whole of Tobit and Judith; the first half of 4 Maccabees; the first two-thirds of the Psalms; and the first five verses of Revelation

Scribe B was a poor speller, and scribe A was not much better; the best scribe was D.[13]: 90  Metzger states: "scribe A had made some unusually serious mistakes".[11] Scribes A and B used nomina sacra in contracted forms most often (ΠΝΕΥΜΑ contracted in all occurrences, ΚΥΡΙΟΣ contracted except in 2 occurrences), whereas scribe D mostly used the uncontracted forms.[13]: 77–78  Scribe D distinguished between sacral and nonsacral uses of ΚΥΡΙΟΣ.[13]: 80–81  His spelling errors are the substitution of ΕΙ for Ι, and Ι for ΕΙ in medial positions, both equally common. Otherwise substitution of Ι for initial ΕΙ is unknown, and final ΕΙ is only replaced in the word ΙΣΧΥΕΙ. The confusion of Ε and ΑΙ is very rare.[13]: 90  In the Book of Psalms, this scribe has ΔΑΥΕΙΔ instead of ΔΑΥΙΔ 35 times, while scribe A normally uses an abbreviated form ΔΑΔ.[27]: 94  Scribe A made the most phonetic errors: confusion of Ε and ΑΙ occurs in all contexts.[13]: 90  Milne and Skeat characterised scribe B as "careless and illiterate".[27]: 53–55  The work of the original scribe is designated by the siglum א‎*.[5]

 

[David in NJ]

The midst of the 70th week was 7th April AD 30. The destruction of Jerusalem is not part of the 'weeks.' The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple did not take place within the actual seventy weeks; the prophet was simply providing information of the aftermath to the weeks in order to explain what the eventual outcome would be.

Here is a useful diagram for you.

View attachment 28779


The 40 years from the Cross till the destruction of Jerusalem is referenced in Daniel 9:27 as an "overspreading abomination." Modern translations wrongly call it a "wing of the temple." No, it was an "overspreading" - that is - the resumption of animal sacrifice in defiance of Christ's finished work and overspreading until a time of testing was complete.


Preterism makes the same mistake as Dispensational Futurism. They propose a gap in the last week. However, there is no gap whether 40 years or 2000 years long. For my research on prophetic timelines, please get 'The Atonement Clock.'

Christ's Ministry was approx 3.5 years = middle of the week

The remaining 3.5 year Period will begin with the revealing of the "man of sin = the Antichrist = 2 Thess ch2 , 1 John ch1

 

[Christian Gedge]

Scribe (A) is the writer of the Epistle of Barnabas, thats found within Codex Sinaiticus, loks like he coudn't spel veery good, wit soem unuzuel serius mistkes?

Im sure we could nit pick about most of the Church fathers. My point here is simply to say they treated Daniel's 70 weeks as 'weeks of years', not weeks of days. Even the Jews speak of the weeks as years. Would you like some more examples?