propitiation by His blood, through faith

[Dave L]

***

It is a mystery as to how you came up with these remarks. I never said anything as you have said in this reply.

My whole postings have been that Jesus's shed blood has paid for all the sins of the world. That is not just me saying it the scriptures also say it.

However if you DON'T think Jesus paid for your sins then they are not paid for because of unbelief.

So far you imply Jesus didn't die for the sin of unbelief, and then added on disobedience. This is salvation by works.

 

[H. Richard]

So far you imply Jesus didn't die for the sin of unbelief, and then added on disobedience. This is salvation by works.

***
What sins do you think Jesus paid for? The scriptures say He paid all sins. I believe it means He paid for all the sins of the flesh that condemn a person. What do you think?

You said "

The solution is in the fact Jesus died only for the elect throughout the world. Paying for all their sins.

Okay then who are the elect? I have been giving my answer but I want your answer.

 

[Dave L]

***
What sins do you think Jesus paid for? The scriptures say He paid all sins. I believe it means He paid for all the sins of the flesh that condemn a person. What do you think?

You said "



Okay then who are the elect? I have been giving my answer but I want your answer.

The problem I see with your presentation is that there is no difference between the saved and the lost apart from human energized belief (of the flesh) and obedience (also of the flesh). And this is salvation by works. In essence, one must act like a Christian to become one.

In the bible, the flesh cannot have biblical faith, it is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. One must first have the Holy Spirit to believe in any genuine sense. And because of this new birth, we love God and hate sin. So we do not practice sinning. If we do sin, God forgives us and we repent in thanksgiving.

 

[Episkopos]

Salvation by works...is...Judaism.

Paul was against bringing Gentiles into Judaism and so bringing them under the law...instead of the full freedom of grace.

So then the works of the law are...a physical circumcision...kosher eating....sabbath keeping...etc...

 

[Dave L]

Salvation by works...is...Judaism.

Paul was against bringing Gentiles into Judaism and so bringing them under the law...instead of the full freedom of grace.

So then the works of the law are...a physical circumcision...kosher eating....sabbath keeping...etc...

Meeting conditions = turning the gospel into law and salvation by works.

 

[Episkopos]

Meeting conditions = turning the gospel into law and salvation by works.

You are denying God's conditions? Then you are either a universalist....or a Calvinist. Both extreme views deny the truth IN Christ.

 

[Dave L]

You are denying God's conditions? Then you are either a universalist....or a Calvinist. Both extreme views deny the truth IN Christ.

Meeting conditions = salvation for the self-righteous only. No conditions but saved by God's mercy and given a new holy nature = grace.

 

[Episkopos]

Meeting conditions = salvation for the self-righteous only. No conditions but saved by God's mercy and given a new holy nature = grace.

Some people...

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes. It is and the action is love and mercy. Those performing religious acts in the flesh claim those "spiritual" are deceived and condemned because they are not religious. Those performing acts of spirituality and love and mercy claim those of "flesh" are deceived and condemned because they are not spiritual. If both are claiming to be doers of the word but condemn the other...which is a doer? Who is demonstrating mercy? … because it looks a lot like politics with the left and the right (fighting) over who is not the hater?

Proverbs 31:30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman(the Church) that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised.

yup, it certainly could be put that way i guess, so maybe you should be replying to this tripe instead of me?

According to Paul's gospel we who believe are made children of God by the Holy Spirit and are no longer subject to God's wrath. The only judgment we will face is for rewards. Not given because we keep the law but for any and all that we helped to give the message of God's grace.

HR is exempt from any judgement of his works, After all, Christ will judge each of us for the good or the bad that we do while living in these bodies, except for HR now, see. And if you got anything else wrong about God's point of view he is happy to contradict Scripture at that point too i guess, if he is not just ignoring it.

Imo it is important to listen to HR bc he has an important lesson to teach, and i for one am glad he is here denying Scripture every day. You certainly aren't going to tell him anything, i mean give it your best shot

 

[Enoch111]

LOL, If you look at my OP you will see that all the scriptures were from the NKJV (New King James Version)

What threw me off, and makes absolutely no sense (and does not even correspond to the Greek text) is this:
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,...

This has been correctly rendered by the KJV and some other versions thus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

Holman Christian Standard Bible
God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed.

Our faith must be in the finished work of Christ, and in this verse, in the shed blood of Christ which is for the remission of sins. However, the NKJV rendering gives the impression that it is the faith of Christ that makes His blood a propitiation. Which is absurd.

The NKJV was supposed to make changes only to update the KJV. Instead the translators went too far with their changes, and copied the modern versions (to its detriment). Indeed, it is just as unreliable.

 

[Episkopos]

yup, it certainly could be put that way i guess, so maybe you should be replying to this tripe instead of me?
HR is exempt from any judgement of his works, After all, Christ will judge each of us for the good or the bad that we do while living in these bodies, except for HR now, see. And if you got anything else wrong about God's point of view he is happy to contradict Scripture at that point too i guess, if he is not just ignoring it.

Imo it is important to listen to HR bc he has an important lesson to teach, and i for one am glad he is here denying Scripture every day. You certainly aren't going to tell him anything, i mean give it your best shot

It takes all kinds....some mothers do 'ave 'em.

 

[bbyrd009]

it's another way to deny the Body of Christ, and even make it into filth and willingly play The Worm

 

[Enoch111]

So Jesus didn't die for the sin of unbelief?

Jesus died for all sins. However unbelief will prevent a person from being saved. Big difference.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)

 

[bbyrd009]

It is a mystery as to how you came up with these remarks

only to you, and that is exactly what you are doing, on the way to getting spewed, ok

However if you DON'T think Jesus paid for your sins then they are not paid for because of unbelief.

sorry, but you are not the arbiter of whether sins are covered by Christ's sacrifice or not either, and you cannot Quote this of course, you just made it up

The scriptures say He paid all sins.

welcome back to reality

 

[bbyrd009]

the Scriptures say all will be judged by their works too, and every time you push this yack you get admonished by those who know better than you, and yet you will not listen, and you cannot say that it is bc they are being evil or anything, like i am, see, they are being nice to you HR.

so, see you when you are ready to read the whole Bible, ok

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus died for all sins. However unbelief will prevent a person from being saved. Big difference.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)

I agree with this!

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree with this!

ya well millions or billions of fence-sitters are all desperately clinging to that bad translation of one v,
and singing "when we all get to heaven" too
let em imo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

yup, it certainly could be put that way i guess, so maybe you should be replying to this tripe instead of me?

No thanks. I have regressed and am still stuck back at ...whose sins are covered.

 

[Nancy]

We still have an insurmountable problem with Jesus not paying for all sin on the cross in your view.

In my own studies and teachings, Jesus indeed DID shed His blood for the remission of the sins of the WHOLE world. And, His sacrifice is a FREE gift for all who believe on Him and what He did. So, in that sense, the "whole world" will not "receive" the gift freely given. So by default, their sins are left in arrears.

 

[bbyrd009]

No thanks. I have regressed and am still stuck back at ...whose sins are covered.

ya, and that is just a symptom, ok, "pick up your cross and follow Me," we can't even get him to acknowledge, not even to give a bad interpretation for. Lots of other Scripture too