Prove the Trinity wrong challenge.

[Dave L]

Dave I need not your cold views. Jesus has sustained me for over 40 years and now your dead dead dead unanointed views are to supplant that?

Why do Christians believe so differently from one another? Could it be they ignore the historic doctrines that have withstood the test of time?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Why do Christians believe so differently from one another? Could it be they ignore the historic doctrines that have withstood the test of time?

The historic doctrines....the bible....is subject to the reader's interpretation and has nothing to do with ignoring them.....so your interpretation varies from others and that is a mystery to me as well.

 

[Dave L]

The historic doctrines....the bible....is subject to the reader's interpretation and has nothing to do with ignoring them.....so your interpretation varies from others and that is a mystery to me as well.

We have historic doctrine held in common by Evangelicals, Protestants, Reformed, Baptists, Methodists, Orthodox, and more. But these are all wrong because you never studied what they teach and don't care to?

 

[Heart2Soul]

We have historic doctrine held in common by Evangelicals, Protestants, Reformed, Baptists, Methodists, Orthodox, and more. But these are all wrong because you never studied what they teach and don't care to?

I guess I don't care to...I avoid the doctrines of men as the Bible teaches me to do.

 

[Dave L]

I guess I don't care to...I avoid the doctrines of men as the Bible teaches me to do.

What are doctrines of scripture if not the trinity, and the deity of Christ? What do you replace them with?

 

[Heart2Soul]

What are doctrines of scripture if not the trinity, and the deity of Christ? What do you replace them with?

Well you went from mentioning denominations.....Evangelicals, Protestants, Reformed, Baptists, Methodists, Orthodox, and more...….and now you are using scripture....now this is deceitful....I said I don't follow the doctrines of MEN.....how does that translate to the doctrines of scripture?

 

[Dave L]

Well you went from mentioning denominations.....Evangelicals, Protestants, Reformed, Baptists, Methodists, Orthodox, and more...….and now you are using scripture....now this is deceitful....I said I don't follow the doctrines of MEN.....how does that translate to the doctrines of scripture?

Just that you are not a member of historic Christendom unless you agree with the creeds these all hold in common.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Just that you are not a member of historic Christendom unless you agree with the creeds these all hold in common.

Okay.....if you say so....

 

[Dave L]

Okay.....if you say so....

It's not just me saying it:

Certain Christian doctrines constitute the core of the faith.

"Central doctrines include the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the bodily resurrection, the atoning work of Christ on the cross, and salvation by grace through faith. These doctrines so comprise the essence of the Christian faith that to remove any of them is to make the belief system non-Christian."

Alan W. Gomes. Unmasking the Cults.

"Therefore for orthodox Christianity, cults of Christianity are groups that, while claiming to be Christian, deny central doctrinal tenets such as the Trinity and the deity of Jesus Christ. They deviate from the doctrinal norms set forth in the »Bible and the historical creeds of Christendom."

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 381). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

 

[OzSpen]

Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord" in its support.” EGW

brakelite,

Why is it needed to demand a "Thus saith the Lord" for accepting any doctrine when 2 Tim 3:16 (NIV) states, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness...."?

So, all Scripture comes with a "thus saith the Lord" because it is theopneustos, i.e. breathed out by God.

Oz

​

 

[OzSpen]

My bible is dead. No pulse. But God is living. We are to go to Him in a new and living way...not by the oldness of the letter but by the new life in the Spirit.

What does that mean to your understanding of the authority of the Bible? Does it have any authority at all since it "is dead" (your words)?

Oz

 

[jaybird]

Unfortunately, even though "thus saith the Lord" is equivalent to what is written in the Holy Scriptures, there are many who will not believe the truth but persist in their lies.

Take John 1:1 as an example.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Did John write by Divine inspiration? Absolutely
Did he reveal that there are two divine Persons in the Godhead? Absolutely
Did he plainly state that "the Word is God"? Absolutely
Yet we still have naysayers claiming that Jesus is NOT God.

And the same applies to the Holy Spirit. We still have naysayers claiming that the Holy Spirit is NOT the third Person of the Trinity, even though Matthew 28:19 is authentic Scripture, and includes the Holy Ghost as one of the Persons within the Godhead.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus spoke of blaspheming the Holy Ghost, and it is only God who can be blasphemed.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

did John plainly say that Jesus was the Most High, absolutely not.

 

[jaybird]

i would say numbers 23 would be a good passage if one was wanting to prove the trinity wrong.

Numbers 23:19
19 God is not man, that he should lie,
or a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Has he said, and will he not do it?
Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

 

[Episkopos]

What does that mean to your understanding of the authority of the Bible? Does it have any authority at all since it "is dead" (your words)?

Oz

What is a book compared to a living God?

2 Cor. 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[justbyfaith]

It's not just me saying it:

Certain Christian doctrines constitute the core of the faith.

"Central doctrines include the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the bodily resurrection, the atoning work of Christ on the cross, and salvation by grace through faith. These doctrines so comprise the essence of the Christian faith that to remove any of them is to make the belief system non-Christian."

Alan W. Gomes. Unmasking the Cults.

"Therefore for orthodox Christianity, cults of Christianity are groups that, while claiming to be Christian, deny central doctrinal tenets such as the Trinity and the deity of Jesus Christ. They deviate from the doctrinal norms set forth in the »Bible and the historical creeds of Christendom."

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 381). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

I'm not sure that there is any scripture that declares that if you deny the Trinity you are outside of the body of Christ. The Deity of Christ, yes (John 8:24). The Trinity, no.

btw, I personally do believe in the Trinity; but I do not exclude from salvation, for example, the Oneness Pentecostals. For they have a pretty solid claim to salvation, which is Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39.

 

[justbyfaith]

i would say numbers 23 would be a good passage if one was wanting to prove the trinity wrong.

Numbers 23:19
19 God is not man, that he should lie,
or a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Has he said, and will he not do it?
Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

That is referring to God the Father. And, at that time in history, He had not yet become a Man.

 

[jaybird]

"people" in the Trinity, lol

still looking for that one myself
must be a religious thing or something?

you have to call them "persons", if you call them what they are, three gods, thats gonna cause problems.

 

[jaybird]

That is referring to God the Father. And, at that time in history, He had not yet become a Man.

so at the moment Jesus came down to this world, this passage of scripture became invalid? was this a temporary teaching?

 

[justbyfaith]

you have to call them "persons", if you call them what they are, three gods, thats gonna cause problems.

In Oneness tradition, God is one Person. He is a Spirit who became a Man, who released His Spirit back to the Spirit that was His former self. Who then gave His Spirit to the church and came and indwelt us by His Spirit. ONE Spirit, ONE Lord, ONE God (Ephesians 4:4-6). SAME Spirit, SAME Lord, SAME God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

 

[justbyfaith]

so at the moment Jesus came down to this world, this passage of scripture became invalid? was this a temporary teaching?

Everything must be taken in its historical context.